linuxmemes @lemmy.world lemmesay @discuss.tchncs.de 11 mo. ago

why exit when you can do everything inside

as I'm going through the process of learning vim, I'm discovering newfound powers. one of them being to execute commands from vim itself.

below examples might better explain some of them:

want to see what files are in current directory? enter command mode(by typing :) and follow it by a bang(!). then do ls like you'd do in a terminal and press enter. this is not limited to just ls. you can enter any command that you can enter in terminal. for example: :! uname --operating-system (which will output GNU/Linux :))
so you want to quickly save just a certain part of your file into another file? just select everything you need by entering visual mode(v) and do :w filename(actual command you'll see would be '<,'>:w filename). verify it using 1.(i.e., :! cat filename.
want to quickly paste another file into current one? do :r filename. it'll paste its contents below your cursor.
or maybe you want to paste results of a command? do :r !ls *.png.

vim is my ~ sweet ~ now. make it yours too.

75 comments

I love vim, but it wasn't always like this. When I was a Linux newbie one of the things that irritated me most is that tutorials aimed at beginners told readers to use vim, without explaining how to maneuver it. People, if you write tutorials aimed at beginners please use nano, even if it's not your preferred text editor.
- The first time I opened vim (it was probably just vi at the time) I couldn't exit it and had to shut down the computer by holding down the power button (!) to regain control of the machine. It took a while before I tried it again. Ultimately nano felt like it was for kids and emacs felt like an even worse option than vi so I memorized a few sequences, eg :q!, :wq, how to enter the insert mode and how to exit it and simple edit commands like dd and x and this gave me enough proficiency to get by.
  
  Most all the terminal commands require prior study before they become easy to use. Its because Unix was created by engineers rather than by ui/ux design professionals.
  
  In Linux terminals, you probably could have pressed Alt+F2 or Ctrl+Alt+F2 (F2 could be other F-keys) and log in on a second terminal to recover (by reading the manual or killing it). Also, if bash already had job control back then Ctrl+Z would have suspended vi/vim to the background.
  
  I'm writing this, so people try it and maybe remember it, if they get stuck in some program. Doesn't have to be vi. Maybe you just launched a long dd command and don't want to end it, but want to look something up. These hints may help then.
  
  It’s because Unix was created by engineers rather than by ui/ux design professionals.
  
  This is somewhat disingenuous. Unix terminal is one of the most ergonomic tools out there. It is not “designed by engineers”, it is engineered for a purpose with user training in mind.
  
  Ergonomics is engineering. UI/UX design is engineering. UX designer that doesn’t apply engineering method is called an artist.
  
  And yet having a sane --help string is enough to get someone going. No need to gatekeep.
  
  "tldr [command]" helps a lot more than --help without the verbosity of man. Just fyi.
- i agree with your request. vim used to scare me first.
  
  as a side note: one of the reasons I believe as to why vscode grew in popularity was due to it lowering the barrier to just open up the editor and use it right away(with plugin system and a nice GUI). it is something vim by default doesn't do.
- What’s wrong with nano? I love nano. As a general thing I love Linux programs that are terminal based but also have a decent UI. Neomutt comes to mind for email.
  
  There’s nothing wrong with nano, it’s a simple text editor while vim is much more versatile and aimed towards that are already accustomed to terminal software.
- This 👆👆👆.
I love these memes that turn into threads full of vim tips. You really can do anything within vim. You can even exit vim!: !killall vim
It's like learning an instrument really. Just need to practice and eventually muscle memory will carry you
You can keep your vim. I am happy with my nano.
Permanently Deleted
- Why would you have closed Emacs? You can do everything in Emacs
  
  VimVM
bonus point: if you like inception, do :term, press i and start another (n)vim session :)
- The challenge now is escaping the neovim terminal
  
  Ctrl+\ Ctrl+n gets you back to normal mode.
- Via this video (thanks @yazgoo@lemmy.ml!) i recently learned a bunch of tricks about :term and am now tempted to start using it all the time.
Dangol modern Linux users, haven't even heard of Ed. Every text editor is bloat, ed is life!
- I use ed sometimes when too anxious.
I will not make vim my sweet as it is optimized for us keyboard. Most of the shortcuts are awful in my native (Finnish) layout. As much of a heretic I am, there is a place for mouse and windowing display managers.

What I do miss from the Redmont dystopia is Notepad++. Can do anything, can be explained over the phone.
- have you tried geany? I find it pretty sweet. that's what I told my project manager to use.
  
  I have not, and on a glance it looks really interesting, thank you! I will give it a spin and I really hope it is the editor of choice from now on.
I say this in every VIM thread:

VIM only has two modes - constantly beeping or destroying everything
- Skill issue
  
  Permanently Deleted
- I don't think I've ever heard vim beep.
If you don't want to use the :! bang command, you could also temporarily exit vim with Ctrl + z and reopen it with fg (like foreground).
- I love jobs(the bash one, not the apple guy)!
- weird, on neovim ctrl+z just flashes my shell for a frame and goes back to vim instantly
This is the duality of Linux. Linux is an easy OS that's extremely customizable and everyone should use it. But also you may have to choke out your PC to exit the text editor.

Did yall know that Notepad has tabs now? So does explorer!
- Choke my computer to exit the text editor? I use nano. I only choke the computer when it asks seductively
- Holy shit! Tabs?!
  
  That does it. I'm going back to Windows.
  
  Tabs in a text editor. My mind is blown.
:!VSCode.exe
- Blasphemy…don’t bring Microsoft’s shitty proprietary editor and shitty proprietary OS near my holy text editor.
  
  :!emacs
- Ignoring that vscode cannot math the two giants: exe? Really?
  
  Come again?
  
  Is :VSCode.AppImage better for you?
I'm one of the people who use micro lol. I do want to give Vim a real shot.
- Okay but like....why?
  
  I usually don't have to do too much text editing. I feel like I should know how to use vim anyway.
I'm personally a kakoune guy now. I used vim for over a decade, but kakoune just makes much more sense to me. And I thought vim made a lot of sense, too.
- Huh, I'm going to have to try that at some point. It's even got nim support.
  
  Link for the lazy
  
  Yeah baby! There's always someone who says that -- "huh, need to try that out sometime".
  
  I really hope you do, it's always satisfying finding a tool that you enjoy more than the ones you've been using. 😊
- i was wondering, could one customize vim to have kakoune keybindings? if so, has someone already done it
  
  I'm thinking that would be more effort than simply installing the kakoune executable. If it's even possible, that is.
And I don't even want to start vim.
I was forced to learn the vim basics. Mainly because I really started with dd-wrt, which I used on my Linksys WRT54GL.

The image was too small to package anything fancy in it, like nano or something, but vi (or vim, I forget) was included. So when I needed to check something over ssh at the command prompt, vim was my only choice.

My skills in vim have not expanded beyond the basics. Getting into edit mode, exciting edit mode, saving, quitting.... Mostly.

I don't spend a lot of time editing files in the CLI, so I haven't needed any more than I already know. Now, when faced with a Linux cli, and needing to check/edit the contents of a file, my go to, is vim. It's pretty much on every system, and it works perfectly fine for what I need to do 99.99% of the time. I like vim, it's been there for me through thick and thin, and helped me out of some serious jams. I won't hate on nano (or any other cli file editor), they all have their pros and cons.

Use what you like.
- Getting into ~~edit~~ Insert mode
  
  I'll admit, I took the rage bait.
  
  <3
Step-by-step guide to getting started with Vim

Uninstall Vim

Install Neovim

Install Emacs

Install Doom Emacs

Enable vterm inside Doom Emacs

Disable Evil mode

Run Neovim inside Emacs using vterm

???

Profit
- very accurate. I'm currently on step 4 thanks to some commentators in the post
Meh. Can't even run Eliza.
- it can if you do :term and then telnet telehack.com. ;)
  
  So "vim can run it" by letting you open a terminal? Emacs has telnet built in, let alone Eliza
Or I can just NOT waste my life and my sanity trying to remember all that BS and just use a mouse and a GUI editor. I have no need to feel like a hackerman.
- Use what you prefer, that's a big part of what makes linux great. I get not wanting to go through the learning curve.
  
  That being said, vim is pretty amazing to use, and super efficient, especially with some nice nvim plugins and customization.
- I agree that remembering all these commands is a hassle, and so do nvim devs. that's why they recommend not to learn the commands¹. these will become your second habit if used enough number of times. just like Ctrl+c/v.
  
  1: from :Tutor in nvim:
  
  NOTE: As you go through this tutorial, do not try to memorize everything, your Neovim vocabulary will expand with usage. Consider returning to this tutorial periodically for a refresher.
  
  also, even if you don't want to use a terminal-based editor, I'd recommended you to give this talk from Bram Moolenaar(creator of vim) a watch. not the whole talk, just a few first minutes. you can even use YouTube chapters to skim through.
  
  have a nice day :)
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  
  this talk from Bram Moolenaar
  
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
- On one hand, yes. On the other hand, you don't need all the keybinds, just remember the useful ones!
  
  Want to delete a single word? Esc to enter command mode, d i w to delete the word you're on, I to begin typing again.
  Everything between two of any char, usually parenthesis or quotes? Same process but d i {char} so something like "what are (you doing senpai)" can be made "what are ()" with just a few very quick keystrokes.
  Delete to end of line? D.
  Copy a whole line? yy (or Y for the rest of the line after cursor). Any time you do dd to delete a full line (or D for the rest of the line, or any other delete action) the contents are also copied so you can paste them again somewhere else.
  
  Can you do anything with vim that you can't do with a GUI + moise? Technically no - but with vim you can do things significantly faster. There is an initial learning curve to get used to basic keybinds and the 2 modes, but it's well worth it, and not using the mouse is intoxicatingly faster and more fun.
  
  I highly recommend doom emacs over vanilla vim- all the power of emacs, but with vim keybinds and a lot of other QOL features. There isn't much that isn't already built into vanilla emacs, much less doom emacs, and even less that can't be added with some packages that you can install from in the app. Web browser? Eww, and you even can use your vim keybinds in it. Doesn't render everything great graphics wise, but it's perfect for looking up documentation if you're lazy. Email? Built in baby. Git? Magit. Notes? Embrace the one true note format, org files and org-roam. File explorer? Dired right in baby. Terminal? Space + o + {t, T} for a terminal in its own buffer for all your terminal pleasures.
  
  I also always install neovim as a backup, it was my favorite vim client for a while. It's useful to be able to use it for basic editing if I'm already trolling around in a terminal such as quick edits to docker-compose files before rerunning them
- Honestly I felt the same way for a long time, until I decided to just learn the motions. Now I couldn't go back.
  
  The combination of actions and motions makes it incredibly fast to edit code - Imagine you have a strong in double quotes that you want to change the double quotes to single quotes. There's a plugin called vim-surround that combines with the basic motions and with my cursor before or within the strong, I can just type cs"' and it's done.
  
  Want to copy everything within a pair of parentheses? yi) ... So many things like that.
  
  Even for editing things like HTML, `cst delete surrounding tag. That will remove the tag around some content without changing the content.
  
  (Neo)vim is incredibly important to my workflow these days and it feels like I write and edit code at the speed of thought.
- Or you can get the best of both worlds and use VSCode with the Neovim plugin! All the benefits of a GUI, but with vim keybinds for the editing!
- The good thing about vim or Emacs is that when you know the shortcuts they are so much faster to use than mouse and menu editors (though Emacs has a menu, and supports mouse, which smooths the learning curve)

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