news @hexbear.net Collision Resistance @lemm.ee 12 mo. ago

Ukraine Sure Doesn't Look Like a Democracy Anymore | Opinion

www.newsweek.com Ukraine Sure Doesn't Look Like a Democracy Anymore

In March 2022 the Ukrainian Security Council suspended 11 political parties that were considered pro-Russian.

World News @lemmy.ml Collision Resistance @lemm.ee 12 mo. ago

www.newsweek.com /ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799

23 comments

Ah, now that the war has gone sour and attention is switching to Israel, now dissenting opinions about Ukraine are allowed to be published.

Death to America
- Does speak to how bad it’s going for Ukraine that this is being published in Newsweek
  
  It's an opinion article, those always have takes that are much different then the mainstream. For better (like the one here) or for worse (pretty much all of NYTs).
  
  In some ways yes, but.... (Gestures towards Iraq war coverage) they'll cover something going badly for years
Ukraine hasn't been a democracy since 1991

also

C14 leader Yevhan Karas points out that right wing ultranationalists were the leading vanguard of the Euromaidan movement, even if they weren't a majority of the members, and that they, unlike the leftists, were able to secure a lot of power after Euromaidan

Zelensky bans parties to his left, claiming they are Kremlin agents, while allowing groups like Svoboda, C14, Azov battalion, etc. to continue existing
To be fair, governments do frequently limit civil liberties in times of crisis. Our own Patriot Act probably went too far in that direction. President Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for Southern sympathizers during the American Civil War, but he never canceled elections. Neither did Winston Churchill, to whom Zelensky is sometimes compared. Churchill actually lost the 1945 British election and had to watch Clement Attlee take the final victory lap for World War II.

I do love the "Lincoln suspended habeas corpus" line as a kind-of end run around "violating civil liberties is always bad" arguments. I occasionally see folks go the extra mile and point to the Sand Creek massacre as necessary and good. But the take away from this shit never seems to be "There is something wholly anti-democratic and nefarious about Western politics."

Ukraine is an aberration. Just like Ethiopia and India and Italy and El Salvador and the Philippines and Israel are aberrations. There's nothing wrong with the system, these foreigners (and occasionally those damned MAGA Americans) are just doing democracy wrong. The wittling away of political parties, the canceling of elections, and the reversion to military rule isn't a feature, we assure you. It is always a bug that we just need to work out. Or not, because this is an op-ed in an online tabloid rather than any kind of public policy.
- TBH, my main gripe with banning parties is that only parties to the left from government were banned.
  
  If they banned rightist parties, it could still ultimately be part of a larger project of rightist consolidation. Ultimately the issue is not a deontological one with banning parties or just banning leftwards, but with who is left to wield power.
- Neither did Winston Churchill, to whom Zelensky is sometimes compared.
  
  So I wasn't the only one calling Zelensky a racist incompetent. Neat.
Permanently Deleted
I disagree with some of the article, since it's ultimately arguing from a very "classical liberal" viewpoint, but it's at least good to see these problems actually be acknowledged rather than denied, ignored, or glossed over.
Omfg this whole article is just exactly what we've been saying for 2 years except now it's not "tankie" because liberals are the ones saying it.
it has created a state-controlled church

imagine how lame their ceremonies are lol
- Oh fuck they’re reinventing “positive christianity” lol
Let me guess, lemmy libs write off yet another lib newspaper as Kremlin propaganda.

Lol
Zelensky enters heaven after being assassinated and is greeted by various American puppets who couldn't do the US' bidding:
This is further evidence that when libs say "democracy" they simply means "good country that we like".

Nothing has materially changed about Ukraine or its method of government between the last round of "Slava UK*ani"s and now, except it's become politically and militarily inconvenient to support.
Hasn't been one since 1991.

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