1y ago

Bye bye edge

183 comments

Not being allowed to remove an app has lead about two people to switch from windows in the last 10000years.
- When will the EU force Vim to let users out?
  
  Hit Esc then type "q!" <- how hard was that? Don't listen to the vimxit liars
- I still dual boot for a few games and one piece of hardware that just don’t work on GNU/Linux, but I’m almost certainly never going back.
  There was an ad for Tik Tok in my Start Menu after the last update. Fuck everything about that sentence.
  
  Uhh what hardware isn't working? Is it something really niche? For some reason I like hearing about stuff like that.
- I know it's a meme but it's crazy to me that some people think the average person cares about computers at all (let alone what OS is running)
  
  Same. Literally the reason I started using Zorin OS was because it was pretty. Not any sort of logical reason, just "Windows is Ugly, Zorin is Pretty"
- Perhaps you are right, but now those two individuals can finally switch back to using Windows.
  
  As one of them, no thank you. Windows is doing plenty of other crap and I don’t like and it turns out linux is kinda fun. Also once I finally understand what I’m doing I can set up a home server and other cool stuff.
  Also I’m not european so I can’t actually switch back
- Well I guess I'm one of the 2 then
  
  Me too

But they still won't be able to remove all of the baked-in spyware.
- Try Ubuntu, you can uninstall the baked in spyware
  
  Moving to an entirely different operating system is a big step just to... end up with closed, proprietary software and spyware again.
  
  Snaps, I think I'll pass.
  Even without them, I don't have time to uninstall/remove everything I don't need.
  DIY distros suit my needs more, but thanks anyway.
  
  If you switch why not go alway? Try Linux from scratch or Arch/Debian, Ubuntu is only a few steps behind MS in term of spyware
  
  You can try linux mint debian edition
  https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
- If it really was that much spyware, the EU would already have created laws to do something about it.
  More likely is that it really isn't spyware as much as it is basic unanimous telemetry, which you can disable in the settings.

Time for Ubuntu to ship with a mandatory Edge installation
- Don’t give them any ideas
- meanwhile, me on Arch: yay -S microsoft-edge-stable-bin
  
  Yeah, as if Arch was not bleeding edge enough.
  
  Godspede to the madlad who needed that to exist

People have already proven they will put up with about anything Microsoft throws at them, so they were never going to switch anyway.
Also you still can't uninstall the bootloader under windows.😆
- Yeah people will download a patched windows iso, go through an extremely complicated install process to have everything the way they want, flip a few bits in windows with some shady ass tool and give up updates instead of just using linux.
  
  Doing all that takes about 2 hours. The shady ass tool is also unnecessary since you can manually change the registry entries. Once it's done I can install anything by double clicking the exe and it runs 99.9% of the time.
  Linux meanwhile only takes half an hour to setup and update (if we are talking about a beginner friendly one like mint cinnamon), but you will use a lot more hours trying to get everything to run. There rarely are good drivers for peripherals, to get even slightly more then the most barebone functions of my logitech gear I have to run a shady github project someone slapped together 3 years ago. The adaptive clock on my laptop doesn't work, I loose about 2 hours of battery life and the touch pad stops working after a few hours.
  I dualboot a win10 ltsc version and mint. By now most stuff runs fine on Linux, but it has taken me 10 times the effort to get to that state compared to windows. And even now I occasionally have to fiddle with wine cause it decides that this specific programm isn't to its liking. And that's ignoring the issue it was to run anything with anticheat. That requires a VM with GPU passtrough to even remotely work.

It's going to be one of those things where someone is either going to switch to Linux or they're not. Most people will take convenience over privacy.
- Honestly, Windows isn't even that much more convenient. It's just what people are used to.
  Now that I'm used to Linux Windows makes me pull my hair out.
  
  Exactly
  
  Even just creating a functioning bootable usb stick with windows is a pain. Why are those stupid windows iso so damn picky?
- Funny. For me switching to Linux was actually a convenience and aesthetics over privacy ngl.
- Since when does microsoft windows have good privacy?

I'm not really concerned about getting more people to use Linux. Am I the only one?
- As a person who cares about the gaming ecosystem, I think it would be really healthy for Microsoft to not have full market dominance.
  They're busy making studio acquisitions which are gradually centralizing the market, which could become very problematic if they start taking anticompetitive approaches to distribution.
  More people on Linux means more pressure for software availability on Linux, and if people can just move over relatively easily that prevents Microsoft from going full corpo-digital-prison-hellscape.
- I feel like I don't really care what my peers use, or what people in general use, but the more adoption linux desktop gets, the more people getting involved in community projects there are, as well as more bug reports and the like, so the sooner things get improved upon and the better they become.
  
  Also more about being mainstream. I'm being forced to use proprietary centralised locked down platforms because others demand it. Free software going mainstream is one of my aims
- Well, more people on Linux means more software support.
  
  we already have all the free software, im not missing adobe bullshit or other proprietary crap.
- I care because by not using linux there is money going to microsoft or apple hands, which are not very friendly to user rights.
- I have people asking me to help them install linux all the time. I am glad, in theory, but sad, in the practicality of having to work for free on my spare time.
- i used to care, now i dont give a flying fuck.
  if people are too stupid to use a superior and free system, fuck em.
  
  Haha well, that's one way to think about it I guess.

Lets be honest, people don't switch to Linux because it's better, we switch because of the cute pinguin mascot !
- And because it's free in many ways.
- Or Chameleon if in EU.
  
  It's OpenSUSE.
  Or Larry the Cow.
  
  Don't forget the cute blue upercase A.

Who gives a shit what other people use?
- Too many Linux users do, unfortinuately.
- Windows is made by a company that would make this change in some countries but not all countries. We are not free until we are all free. Some operating systems guarantee that. Others do not.
  
  I don’t disagree with you but dude people are sick of the politicization of everything and their operating system doesn’t even get onto that radar. They are ignorant and quite happy of it. Please let the pigs eat their shit in peace.
  That said, it is quite telling that Microsoft apparently finds it more advantageous to have two divergent feature sets than to apply the change universally.

It's a little naive to think that this was an incentive to use Linux for ppl in the first place.

Idk, the whole "Megacorp is forced to do reasonable thing, but will still only do so in regions where the law applies" should further encourage people to move away from all their crap.

Overnight, millions will suddenly somehow become European.
I wonder if they will try IP based Geo enforcement? How long do you think before Rufus allows flipping the bit to force this globally on install?
- No. A lot of people simply don't care about their browser enough to take any action, let alone to bypass geo-restrictions.
  
  The people who do care have already switched to Linux.

Shouldn’t the same be applied to MacOS? There are a myriad of stupid apps impossible to uninstall. Maybe even safari
- While you can’t uninstall Safari, it doesn’t constantly discourage you to use other browsers like Edge does. Nor does Mac OS prevents you from installing competing apps.
  The bigger problem is iOS, but the EU already took care of that and we’ll be able to sideload apps on iOS pretty soon.
  
  Does Mac prohibit other browser engines like they do on iOS?
  Doesn't do a lot of good, that they let you use other browsers if they are just reskins for Safari.
  
  I remember Mac os ignoring my default browser choice many times and instead launching a web page in safari.
  
  True, I forgot that part. Thanks! Still, it comes as weird for me to have software (zero tied to OS functions ) I cannot remove
  
  Mac literally doesn't allow any other browser engine. They only allow webkit.
  So your options are:
  Safari
  Safari with Chrome aesthetics
  Safari with Firefox aesthetics
  Safari with [insert browser here] aesthetics
- Like what ?
  
  Older MacOS versions had stuff like the chess game preinstalled for no reason, though I don't know how current versions look like.
  I also don't know how easy it is to remove preinstalled apps nowadays. Back in the day, you could disable System Integrity Protection, remove whatever you want, and re-enable Protection afterwards.
- The odd thing is that some of them are uninstallable on iOS/iPadOS...

Don't worry, there's still plenty of reasons Windows sucks and they'll only make it worse.

"Oh man, I'd love to use Linux because then I wouldn't have to have Edge installed!" - Nobody. Ever.
People use Windows because it comes with the PC and it runs all their shit (maybe except some yellowing-beige and blue scanner from 1997) with no fucking about needed. They were never incentivised to use Linux. They don't know what an OS is, and more importantly, they don't care.
- Also most software is written for that default os and if they ran into most of the common issues linux users do theyd throw it in the bin.

As someone who has has tried repeatedly for more than ten years to use Linux, Linux is already doing a good enough job at that without their help.
- skill issues
- Just try fedora, its easy
  
  I've been a software engineer for many years so trust me when I say this has nothing to do with how hard or easy it is to install. I used to run Gentoo at some point so I'm not exactly CLI averse. The problem isn't the installation, it's maintenance. Shit just keeps on breaking for no reason and I'm tired of figuring out how to fix it.
  Linux is simply an enormous timesink. It constantly needs handholding and babysitting in order to work. And it doesn't even reward you for it with a superior user experience, just a steady stream of problems to fix. Windows might not be perfect, but it at least it works. Meanwhile, Linux is like an insecure girlfriend, it constantly needs reassurance that you still love it.

The year of Linux cancelled. /s
- The year of the DESKTOP Linux. Linux has already won everywhere else.

What are the limits of this new law? Certainly state sponsored spyware are protected from this, for example

I disagree with the premise, but even if it's true that people stay with Windows because it sucks less, that's still a success story for Linux. External comparative pressure leading to more end user freedom. Think of where it could go next!

Edge isn't as bad nowadays, and it's not much more of a spyware than Google Chrome, the meme browser.
- Which still is pretty bad. Honestly we should avoid chromium.
  But as far as chromium is concerned, yeah Edge is pretty good. I used it until the anti adblock shenanigans
  
  Same here, switched to FF for almost a year now beside AdBlock Edge is far better than Chrome
- Brave, but true. If one is going to use chrome, then Edge would probably be better for them.

The overlap of people that will not remove the initial bloat (even if it's a button displayed prominently on first start) and people inclined to use Linux in the first place is not that great.

I get the point, but there's for example Evolution which you cannot uninstall from GNOME without uninstalling the GNOME itself
- Well at least it doesn't fire off background processes even if you don't use it.
- Well, you could if the package was set up differently, or if you wanted to go at it manually. But they way the maintainers set the dependencies makes apt think it has to remove the whole DE, or at least a bunch of essential parts of it.
  
  Can't you pass something like --unmerge or --nodeps so package manager will ignore dependencies? And then add it to apt equivalent of package.prpvided to tell that this package is managed by another package manager(you).
  
  That's the point. Obviously you can uninstall any windows application too, it's just that Microsoft doesn't want you to.

Plenty more reasons, thank you very much.

And still, it's been years (even decades) that all computers in France were supposed to be proposed without OS preinstalled and yet it's very difficult to find one, or even to be refunded the licence Price a posteriori. Laws are being voted, removed, revoted, reremoved etc. and all justice actions have been a massive failure for consumers. I hope this law will be more applied than what we had until now.
We are moving the correct way but we still are so far from equity.

Funny because I have edge installed on my Linux laptop for some work stuff
- Yeah I have edge installed on my Steam Deck to play games via xcloud
- You may want to consider quitting then
  
  Yeah screw this guy's income, livelihood, and health insurance because of a web browser for work. Amirite guys?
  
  Lol no I'm happy I can work on Linux laptop in the first place.
  Also I'm very much enjoying my work right now
  
  lol how is this downvoted it was funny

There’s an app called “whatever”? Is it the new WhatsApp? Or an app about being indifferent?

If you are too stupid for your own good it's not our problem.

Install Linux anyway
Why would you pay for an incompetent sabotaging system?
I installed both windows and Linux about a week ago. Linux was (with download and USB creation) a little over 30 minutes. Windows was an agonizing 7 hour journey through all sorts of dumb vague error messages, internet searches disconnecting and reconnecting drives, various rewrites the that USB drive, having to spin up a VPS in Linux and install windows there first... It was a fucking nightmarish hellscsape caused by a mix of windows developers (and their managers) incompetence and pure sabotage of people that use real operating systems.
Fuck everything about Microsoft, install Linux and stick with that. We have cookies
- NGL I gotta say that sounds like a fluke. I've never had to spend more than an hour on a fresh windows install. I run Windows on my desktop and Linux Mint on my laptop. So while I haven't done thousands of installs if 7 hours was a constant issue no one would be using Windows.
  
  It's 7 hours when you factor in the updates and the time spent having to go fish for software all over the Internet.
- Why do people make up dumb stories like this? It's okay to just like something without spreading nonsense about the competing products.
  
  There are plenty of things to hate Windows for.
  But a 7 hour fresh install is not one of them. That just reeks of incompetence.
- Download windows media tool. Start installation. Done in ~30 min. After install, downloads all necessary basic drivers automatically. Just have to download Nvidia GeForce. < I have installed my own PC yes, multiple times yes.
  Enjoy your Linux, please don't lie to prove unexisting superiority.
- How did you manage to do that? Installing Windows 11 only took me about 30 minutes last time. Installing Debian takes about the same time. And what does a VPS even have to do with all of this?
  
  For me the 30 minutes to install is about right. After that I have usable Linux and an unusable Windows.
  To get Windows to the same state:
  Add 5 Minutes for clicking trough the "Do you want to enable handwriting? ((( We just allow ourselves to collect samples of everything you write to "improve our recognition engine" )))
  Add 20-30 minutes of security updates (thankfully it got much faster with SSDs, before it could have been hours)
  Add 20-30 minutes of installing necessary software like an office suite, PDF Reader with basic functionality, 7zip. This is only 30 minutes because I spent hours automating the downloads and installs trough scripts.
  If it is my system or a company system: Add 20 minutes to go trough the settings of Win10Privacy to at least reduce the phoning home and to enable some necessary settings for working with the system like "Don't restart at random times"
  Add 10 Minutes to remove the installed bloatware like People, Windows Maps, Windows Experience Host, ...
  In summary:
  Linux requires 5 minutes attention and is ready after 30min.
  Windows requires 40 minutes of attention and is somewhat ready after 2h30min. Even if I skip the privacy stuff its still at about 1h20min.
  To be fair: On Windows and Linux I immediately install ublock to Firefox afterwards, on Linux I run a single apt command to install some more niche software which takes about 3 minutes on a fast network connection.
- So, I came here with a bit of knowledge in Linux having fucked around with Ubuntu and Arch here and there, and I can tell you, even with a sturdy and non-rolling release like Fedora Silverblue, there are easily things I can do in Windows that just work without any additional overhead or configuration that simply does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
  You guys all say Windows sucks and Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread but it still can't do the fucking basics that Windows does in spades. When I install Windows on a machine, I have nearly a 100% guarantee that every single component is going to work properly with minimal config. When I try to do the same thing in Linux, it's hours on the Arch wiki or deep into forums trying to figure out how to get something as basic as a fingerprint sensor to work. That's not convenient for the average user, and you guys are not the goddamn average user, because you are okay with shit not working out of the box and doing configurations for a lot of little things that you would otherwise just take entirely for granted as simply working on Windows.
  
  does not work in Linux, like fingerprint sensors.
  my xps13 fingerprint sensor works perfectly out of the box...
  also why bring up arch? that distro is literally made for thinkerers. you need to compare windows to ubuntu or fedora...

As great as Linux can be, using windows without the bloat or spyware is fine by me. Hell, using it with all that is fine just so long as the end user is happy.

Are we still forgetting that Win12 will have subscription? Or at least it might. Then their terms of agreement state clearly that they will collect your personal data and share them if they see the need for it. I mean there's more to it than being able to uninstall IE.
- Windows 12 is not going to require a subscription
  
  I too doubt this will be the case but there was a news report claiming Microsoft is contemplating such a thing.

There are no apple ads on twitter.

183 comments