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Plus Linux could update it in the background while the app is running. There's no reason windows can't do these things, and yet, it can't.
It can't, really. What Linux will do (and Windows won't) is delete old files and replace them with new ones while they are still in use. But this has two problems.
- It can lead to stability issues. See e.g. Firefox, which refuses to open new tabs and can't shut down cleanly if you update using the package manager while the browser is running. If you replace a binary executable in use and it later tries to load a shared library dynamically, it will get an unexpected version of that shared library which can potentially lead to memory corruption. Similar problem if the program tries fork+exec itself to create more instances (like Firefox and Chrome do).
- It won't actually update the running process in memory, so even if you install security fixes your system will still be vulnerable. To be safe after e.g. fixes to libc you really need to reboot your system, but most distributions hide this fact from the user.
Windows could certainly opt for a similar solution as Linux. They just chose a stricter and more reliable model for file locking, for good or bad. For what it's worth I personally prefer the Linux model, but that's because I know to reboot my system after updating it. I don't trust my dad to take that social responsibility so he needs to be forced.
Outside of the kennel a reboot is not necessary you just restart the app/service it’s really not rocket science.
9.9/10 times you just need to log out and log back in.
Updating a shared library requires an understanding of which services (and interactive programs) use that shared library. There's a lot of room for mistakes. So while restarting specific services can be worth it for a high-availability server, for a desktop PC I find it easier and less error-prone to just restart the machine. If you are really keen to avoid going into POST you can use kexec.
You're wrong about everything
But... But... He explained in a very organized manner, so it must be true, right?
I am rubber, you are glue
So you're a condom?
Clock app’s dependencies includes isNotOdd which has a dependency called isOdd.
You're confusing linux with nodejs.
lol you get the joke.
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There's a configuration file you can edit to prevent that. The Flatpak configures this automatically for you.
Linux distros usually raises a reboot required flag. But thats usually to complete some kernel or system update. Windows just go ahead and reboot on update ruining the workflow.
When you get the message to reboot ignore it and do your work. Then shutdown after doing it. Turn on when you need it the next time. And its all well
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“updates were installed, you should reboot”.
But I think you can ignore it, the updates just will not take effect until you reboot.
I work at night and Windows loves to push Windows Updates at night regardless of my normal work schedule.
Take a trip to the bathroom or just don't move the mouse for a few minutes and Windows will reboot (fuck whatever you had running) and spent an hour or two installing an update (fuck the rest of your night)
Linux doesn't ever try to force itself on you like that, it's a respectable OS
"DAE too many Linux posts?! BRB need to reboot windows for the 30th time today."
That's a strawman argument, I can't remember the last time I had to reboot Windows, and the last few updates have only taken a few minutes. They also install on shutdown most of the time.
I use Windows on both my work and home PC. I had to reboot both twice today. I'll probably be switching my home PC to Linux over the holiday weekend.
That would be for the best, cause it seems you aren't really capable of using Windows properly
Well, if Windows is that difficult to use, I don't know why you're fighting so hard for it.
It isn't, unless you start digging under the hood without prior knowledge about the systems.
Windows is a lot more open than Linuxians give it credit. Those settings are just a bit more hidden to be user friendly.
It's open-ish, but modern Windows just doesn't feel like it's my OS anymore. It feels like I'm just borrowing it from Microsoft, and I'm really tired of core functionality being SaaS.
Linux bros really a blight on lemmy
Microsoft is a blight on humanity.
Tell that to all the businesses running on it.
I dont give a shit.
I have never had problems with windows updates nor has it never rebooted on me. Dunno what the hate is for, at least windows works without knowing 79 different programming languages and having to scour through git repos from 2002 for drivers just to get a driver compiled for your headset (it wont compile because it requires a bingbong-SDK mainted by a guy from turkey who refuses to update it from 1.95v2 to more recent 1.99-6 which is incompatible with your dial-up modem)
There's lies, damn lies, and the shit you just typed.
Do you ever feel tired of having to type 55 lines of commands into the console just to open Wine to actually use your pc?
Not really because I just use the stuff. I only use the command line for very basic stuff, usually.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be, 99% of the time.
Yeah, there are times when you run into edge cases that are frustrating. Although I've had that with windows once in awhile.
I've used Mint for about 10y then ran into a situation where AMD gfx card was too new for the kernel and switched to a Fedora based distro. Which is kind of outrageous to have to do that. But that's the first time in a decade.
I try to stick to hardware that is fairly mainstream or which implements mainstream standards.
It helps a lot if you're comfortable with bash. Otherwise if you run into issues and some website gives you a bunch of commands they look like line noise.
I mean, *nix is kind of arcane. But once you know about command format, pipes, redirects, and maybe a couple dozen commands, it gets a lot better.
I learned all this stuff back in the late 80s so it is second nature to me. But it was a learning curve back then. But then, so is powershell or dos.
Cool will check out. I would love to get back to using Mint.
Linux isn't hard, I just have 30 years experience and know my way around a console.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be, 99% of the time.
The general populace are nowhere near at competent as you're making them out to be, 99% of the time.
3% desktop marketshare. Linux won't be seen as a viable solution until it is capable of handling an idiot half as well as Windows.
I don't disagree with the bit about general users... but I don't know that Windows handles idiots all that much better, based on how it's handled me (an idiot).
Sometimes issues come up in an OS which require some intensive searching or a help desk (H4B grrr). Although I haven't had to reinstall Win anytime in the last like 15 years or more.
I think software availability plays significantly in terms of viability of Linux for desktop.
Windows is still a middle ground of functionality and user safety. Better for corporate tasks than a Mac, better for gaming than both, and benefits from massive marketshare making their systems better knows though osmosis, superusers still know their way around windows as well as any knows theirs around Linux.
Developers aren't going to go after a 3% desktop market share of Linux users so most software development is still Windows and .net based in the corpo and developer spaces.
Linux as a desktop OS lacks both usability and compatability still. I don't have to emulate shit in windows to do anything. No wine, no Proton, nothing. A normal user never has to touch a console in windows. Until you can go the lifetime of a PC for a regular user not needing the console then Linux will not be as viable as Windows for 'regular' users.
*typetypetype*
*3D printed arm connected to raspberry pi opens wine bottle on desk*
*glug-glug-glug*
Now I'm ready to use my pc
LOL I can install and open wine in a single command line.
I can install whatever I want without any command lines lmao. Thanks for proving my point. Windows just kinda works with an (mostly) intuitive UI and no need to remember thousands of commands which make no sense.
Windows just kinda works
This is how you made clear that you aren't very experienced. The type of shit that goes wrong with Linux and Windows has a lot of overlap. The difference being that if Linux breaks you have a chance to learn something and fix it. Whereas when Windows inevitably bricks your system with a shitty update that got force installed, you normally have to reinstall your OS
Just admit that your issue with Linux is that you learned a thing and don't want to learn another because you're a lazy coward.
Never had a windows brick on me but nice fantasy argument I'll keep in my backpocket
never had Windows brick on me
Congrats, if that's true. You're the exception, not the rule. Windows has bricked itself on several users with a couple of updates before tho (and I know this because one of those is exactly when i learned how much of a removed it can be to actually install on your system), and a quick basic search proves that yeah, this isn't some rare thing, the OS tends to do that sometimes to the frustration of many.
You actually legitimately think windows bricking itself is a rule? That the most used OS in pcs just shits itself yet people still continue using it? I mean, have you considered that there might be a reason why linux is only used in backend server voodoo things and toothbrushes?
It's not what I think tho, it's what's written by others....unless I'm somehow imagining actual search results of people detailing their experiences of their machine, yes. bricking themselves. That, or Google results and Microsoft's own forum posts are lying. Along with several other threads, videos, and examples. Which i very much douvt is the case here.
It's a man-made thing. No man-made thing is infallible. They can and sometimes do break or mess up. That shouldn't be hard to understand, i should think
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Then I don't think you've met many people.
I mean I don't talk about PCs a lot with my peers, but I've never heard anyone mention their PCs bricked. I've heard a lot about android phones shitting themselves but they aren't based off of windows. Can't remember what kernel android's based off of, can you help reminding me?
Feel free to copy the below for yourself
- SaakoPaahtaa
You say this as if command line is bad? I love the command line for certain tasks. A very common task I do is convert an image from one filetype to another. How does this work on windows? Assuming I have a program that works with each image filetype, I open up the program, click on some menus and dropdown selections and click convert or "save as file type". On linux, where every major distro has imagemagick installed by default I type
convert image.jpg image.pdfand done. I mean, how much easier can that be?
Or another example is merging a bunch of pdfs. I imagine adobe acrobat can do this, but I've never bothered to learn how, as I quickly learned that I can do it using pdftk on linux by typing
pdftk file1.pdf file2.pdf cat output merged.pdfand done. If I do happen to forget the exact syntax for that command, google gives me the answer instantly.
If there's a difficult command line thing to do with lots of options that can get confusing, there is a GUI interface that someone has written that has the dropdown boxes so you don't HAVE to learn the specific options, but a little bit of learning the command line makes many tasks way more convenient than a typical windows GUI program.
Regarding wine, you've obviously have never used it (or likely even linux). I used my linux pc for 13 years before installing wine to play WoW. (side note to another of your strange assertions, I knew zero programming languages when I switched to linux.) Although, I wasn't really gaming at all in that time period. I mainly do work on my pc, and the software I use is so much more convenient to us on linux than windows: mainly latex and vim. Some friend asked me to play WoW with them and I said "If I can get it to run on linux, I will." Kind of thinking it would be a huge pain in the ass to get to run. But the whole process went super smooth, it was maybe 3 commands and now I use zero command line to launch WoW using wine.
Finally, I don't like the windows UI. Floating desktop managers always annoyed me (including the linux ones such as gnome) whenever I needed multiple windows displayed at once. Way too much fiddliness adjusting window sizes and borders. I learned about tiling window managers, and that's what I use now. Is tiling even possible on windows? I know you can win+arrow to kinda do this, but then rearranging can be a pain. I know this is all personal preference and most people like floating windows, but it's a choice I can make on linux.
I say that as in linux is not well designed if it needs years of CS experience to run and maintain, especially when its alternative is windows which works intuitively.
It's not made better by the fact that linuxboys constantly make up stuff about windows, like the comment which I originally replied to that got under the skin of all the 13 people in the world that use linux on their pc
Yah but you need to do 55 clicks instead to install some program after downloading it from browser.
You can install and run wine from either GUI(even less clicks) or just a oneliner command
55 clicks? Just a double click on the installer and go through the wizard, ez pz, especially when compared to
-git sudo 82737492 dor kror o k /87 +91 ||qidl
Just for it not to work since you don't have the required punchcard from 60s
55 clicks because you exxagurated commands as well
Actually, open chrome and downloading the exe installer itself takes almost 10clicks + typing the search query. Then clicks to go to downloads, double clicking the exe, the wizard appears. Now the wizards for apps might differ but on average you may have to select some options, maybe select install directory, then click next, next,next, install
Wait untill installed
Click finish.
This is more tiresome than opening store, searching app, click install
Or alternatively
sudo apt install wineOr just install Wine from the software update app. Or just let Lutris handle your Wine installation and configuration.
Hey at least its intuitive unlike using weird judo rm rf voodoo shit
What's unintuitive about
sudo apt install wine?sudo- equivalent to right clicking and running as administratorapt- just an abbreviation of Advanced Package Tool, but this is almost rarely seen without install, remove, update, or upgrade after it so most beginners think ofapt installas one partinstall- self-explanatorywine- the name of what you want to install
-git sudo 82737492 dor kror o k /87 +91 ||qidlThis is an invalid command, but nice try.
Hilarious joke 🙄
You've never had windows reboot on you for an update? Are you running 3.1 or something?
I've never had windows force a reboot and I don't even turn my PC off at night like the other guy does
I just tell it to schedule a time for the middle of the night and go from there
I think maybe back in the xp/vista days that happened once or twice, but not in well over a decade now
At least that works for you. I’ve never been able to get windows to respect my “active hours.” Especially on my work laptop - I work overnight, and frequently have to open up a command prompt to override the forced scheduled restart. Even though the active hours thing allows you to put in a day that starts at PM and ends at AM, something about my work day crossing over midnight apparently just makes windows shit its diaper.
Edit: Dang, fuck me for just relaying my experience. Didn’t realize we weren’t allowed to criticize the godOS.
W10. I shut down my pc every night so if it needs to have a rest it will. But I never had it reboot on me in the middle of something like I hear linuxboys fantasize about. The only thing I notice when it's got an update coming up is that the button says "update and shutdown" instead of just "shutdown".
It’s fascinating to me how much someone can fanboy/fangirl over a simple computer OS that you’ll straight up smear the facts in favor of your argument. It’s fucking software, use what you want and chill the fuck out. So windows hasn’t forced you to restart because you shut your computer down every night. A lot of people don’t do that since we may still have other processes running while we’re not at the PC. In those cases, windows absolutely will force a restart, and usually at the most inconvenient time. You don’t have that problem because you don’t need your PC to be running overnight, so you shut yours down which mitigates the forced restart issue. And you know that’s what’s happening or you wouldn’t have mentioned it. So stop arguing in bad faith and come up with an actually relevant argument if you’re still planning on being worked up over what OS strangers on the internet use.
Oh man, it's ironic that you're accusing someone else of a being a fanboy and getting worked up over what OS a stranger uses.
“You’re overreacting to someone overreacting because you called them out on it, lolz” Also, not the definition of irony.
I don’t even have a dog in the race - as annoying as windows is, I still use it. The only Linux machine I have at the moment is my NAS. Not nearly as invested in this as you’re choosing to read into it. My issue was with someone arguing in bad faith.
You raise a good point, I don't really categorize myself as any OS fanboy, there are plenty of retarded things in windows (scrollbar implementation and focusthieves can eat my ass), but linux users are legitimately the most thin skinned fanboys of all time. As shown by this thread, say a little quip that's clearly exaggerated and suddenly basements all over the world start echoing mechanical keyboard clackering over it. If linux was reasonable to use and would have an UI even slightly comparable to windows I'd switch in a heartbeat
You show that you're about 17 and have been using computers like 2 years lol
I'll take this bait. If your OS requires any experience, it's badly designed. Using an OS unreasonably difficult doesn't make you smarter.
So yes then
You must be socially inept if you think that was a confirmation
You thought that was worth typing.
Yes, with the hope you understood why your comment didn't make sense.
But I guess I failed.
It did make sense as long as you've ever spoken to other people before
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From command line it's "sudo dnf update" for example and if you use flatpak, "flatpak update", updates everything. Or just click update in software manager.
There are programs that are not compiled/packaged by their developers and you have to do it yourself, but so are on Windows. But for OS from Microsoft noone would mention such program, because compiling on Windows is nightmare in comparason. C for example was designed for Unix-like systems. More high-level languages have less dependency installing, but still.
Nowadays people run WSL to compile programs for Windows and that says something...
EDIT: To people in responses below, don't get too engaged to something that can be trolling.
There's even an Update (technical docs) portal so apps can configure themselves to appear to self-update, without actually having to implement self-updating.
Crazy how you say that first paragraph with zero irony. If linux was good or easily accessible it would be used. You can choose which one it's not.
Sudo pe tk pfle dogp öepsj foe 829 p4o å28
Uh so yeah so this turns volume up by one root2 it's really not that hard haha
You're just rolling around in stupid for fun
Rolling under linuxboys' skin yeah, easy access.
Pathetic hobby you got
Pathetic OS you got
Why are you so proud of ignorance?
Likely 99% of computers involved in you sending this stupid message run Linux. You not knowing that disqualifies you from commenting on the matter.
As he literally says you can just click update... don't fucking use it if you don't want to but then don't be like "IT SHOULD NOT EXIST CMD LINE BAD!!"
You never have to touch it on most typical distros. At all.
Not everyone uses windows just to play solitaire Margret.
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I don't remember any version of Windows I actively use ever auto updating for me either, but that's because I turned that shit off myself.
Not disagreeing with you, but when I turned off updates on win 10 it stopped it for a while, and then forced it no matter what I did in the middle of what I was doing one day (only to fail, bluescreen and revert, but that's another story)
I find it funny how you say it wasn't bingbong-SDK and then go on to explain what actually happened, and even that could've been a satirical comment I would've written.
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I have never needed to use my programming knowledge to use Linux nor have I had an issue with drivers. Dunno what the hate is for, at least Linux works without changing half the values in the registry to make it tolerable or having an active internet connection (it won't install the OS without making you create a Microsoft account unless you open a secret command prompt to disable the Internet requirement and lie about not having Internet so they can attach all of the information they collect on you to a profile that enables them to deliver more relevant advertisements directly to your operating system)
it won’t install the OS without making you create a Microsoft account
I'm not pro-Windows by any means, but this simply isn't true.
Yea, kinda. It forces it hard though.
There is no obvious way to skip the MS account. You can select that it is a managed device and create a local user that way, but afaik that's the last option left and obviously it is there for a very different intention.
I am sure that if MS could remove it completely they would.
You need to open a secret command prompt and type in a command. The person I was replying to is apparently deathly allergic to typing out simple commands in a terminal, so he certainly wouldn't be able to get around it.
Um, no you don't. I mean you can do it that way if you want I suppose, but you can just use the good ol' decline button too (repeatedly, on various screens, with your network cable unplugged. Fuck Windows)
You don't need to open a secret command prompt or type a command to not install without an account lmao. Linux fanboys just keep on lying to support their dying OS It's hilarious haha.
"dying"
The world runs quite literally mostly on Linux. The vast majority of servers, all android phones, Chromebooks, and a growing percentage of desktops
Windows on the other hand is literally losing market share. But sure it's Linux that is dying lol
That's why valve built steam deck with windows in mind ;)
LOLOLOLOL
Dying? Linux runs on like 90% of the servers you use, 80% of the phones on this planet, and 100% of all networking gear.
Linux is dying because your brain is full of mush.
There is a wrong way to be right about something, and this comment is a great example of that.
Truth bends when you deal with linuxboys lmao.
Huh? I haven't got a microsoft account on my pc mate.
Meanwhile I had to reboot Windows four times today.