Let's say the worst case scenario happens with kbin and Meta. What are some alternate sites/instances that would be more resilient to enshitification?
Let's say the worst case scenario happens with kbin and Meta. What are some alternate sites/instances that would be more resilient to enshitification?
I'm getting really tired of trying to run away from big tech, only to be ensnared again by the greed and/or naivety of sites who ultimately cave to the whims of big tech.
Mastodon has already caved, and the silence of lemmy's and kbin's developers over this matter isn't exactly reassuring. Since I more or less still have my bags packed from leaving reddit, what are some other communities I could try that would be more resilient to corporate encroachment?
This is way too dramatic. Mastodon hasn't caved. The mastodon.social instance might federate with META, but it is not said it will. The kbin developer is a tad busy with keeping kbin.social instance running and fixing kbin software. So the silence doesn't mean anything.
Host your own instance and do whatever you want. That way you can be sure what will happen.I am glad the instance of Mastodon I use will defederate from meta.
The two biggest instances at the moment as far as I know is kbin social and lemmy world if one allows meta I will just use the other one. Though I recommend any instance that has signed the anti meta pact.
This shows a list of instances that signed it I would pick one of those.Permanently Deleted
in this case we don't talk about users who want to block users of another instance. The problem is not the users of meta. The problem is meta itself and all the problems it will bring to the federated network. Whoever cannot see that their intentions are not to promote federated networks but to exploit and extinguish them, is just naive.
So Meta's plan is to make a twitter-alike that spies on its users and manipulates them into being the hate fueled engagement engine, and then inflict that on the fediverse?
What's to stop everyone from pointing out as often as possible that users can still talk to Zuck's twits without the spying and manipulation by simply doing so from a non-Meta instance, and then defederating Meta once they are no longer dominant?
Am I just misunderstanding this?
Am I just misunderstanding this?
yes
So Meta’s plan is to make a twitter-alike that spies on its users and manipulates them into being the hate fueled engagement engine, and then inflict that on the fediverse?
No one outside their boardroom knows what Meta's plan is, but I doubt they care much about fedi. They are trying to kill off Twitter and take that marketshare of ~500M users. The fediverse with a total of 9M users (and no advertising revenue) isn't very important in that scheme.
They are in deep legal trouble with EU privacy regulations and need to show to EU they are "taking things seriously". ActivityPub was most likely a nice "freebie" they can use and point out they offer interoperability. The whole fediverse bit is just to escape further GDPR trouble with EU.
What’s to stop everyone from pointing out as often as possible that users can still talk to Zuck’s twits without the spying and manipulation by simply doing so from a non-Meta instance, and then defederating Meta once they are no longer dominant?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean? That people would migrate away from Threads if they knew they only knew can access their followers from somewhere else? Why on earth would that ever happen? The opposite is more likely.
Am I just misunderstanding this?
Yes?
That’s an interesting angle that I completely failed to notice. I thought this whole experiment is for Facebook/Meta to get a headstart in a new tech space, like they’re been trying to do with VR and the whole crypto craze.
While I never assumed their intentions were pure with any of this, I clearly was not nearly as cynical as one has to be with these people.
Given the fediverse is pretty open by design, meta doesn't even need to be part of it to spy if they wanted. It's the EEE strategy that people are more worried about.
Given the fediverse is pretty open by design, meta doesn’t even need to be part of it to spy if they wanted.
They can't gather all the same information that they could from a phone app, and we've seen what permissions they ask for on that. They also can't manipulate the feed to drive engagement by fostering hate like they can with their own site/app.
It’s the EEE strategy that people are more worried about.
Hence the "get them off meta and onto other instances and then defederate" thing.
What’s to stop everyone from pointing out as often as possible that users can still talk to Zuck’s twits without the spying and manipulation by simply doing so from a non-Meta instance
Facebook users are stupid, network effects ensure that most people go to a single provider and then minor incompatibilities between threads and the fediverse slowly cuts off the fediverse and ensures it dies.
What does "dies" mean in this circumstance? We already only have 1% of their users. Are we afraid that access toore content here will cause users to leave for Facebook?
Threads is just a bad ActivityPub client with ads, tracking and Zuck. I am less worried about it and the federation with it because we will get non of that, no ads, no tracking and we can block Zuck. I am more worried about a general flood of typical instagram users and their love for the most blandest of human interaction.
You raise another good issue; the influx of all those most of us left behind on Reddit, though a slightly different breed.
I'm really enjoying actual conversation here, the posting of actual articles and discussions. I like that my feed isn't full of memes (I blocked the instances that like that stuff, power to them elsewhere), reposted tiktok videos and tweet screenshots. The fediverse is going to be tainted. Obviously it could happen eventually if this place got more popular, but I was hoping to have a longer grace period..
Ultimately, the important thing is that communities can exist with some amount of independence and can operate by their own preferences.
Sometimes I want serious intellectual conversations. Sometimes I want to talk about trashy reality TV. Sometimes I just want the dumbest memes to ever enter a human mind. None of these have to be mutually exclusive, so long as different communities can manage themselves.
No one really answered your question so I will. Tildes.net was being thrown around on reddit and it's a non-profit open source website.
Personally, I think the entirety of Fediverse is pretty resilient to hostile takeover as long as there are instances that will never federate with Threads. The Fediverse might be split into two though.
A split might be good for us, as it would ensure the survival of the Fediverse. Hell, I'd probably just have accounts on both sides.
Three, as NSFW content is already almost universally defederated from by every instance.