Some trouble

"Okay, I switched to Linux, now I'm getting this error message: _______."
"Install ______."
"It gives me this error now: ______."
"You have to update the _____ library first."
"It won't let me."
"You have to use sudo."
"It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn't supported any more."
"You're following seven year old instructions."
"They're the only instructions I can find."
"You should switch to this other flavor of Linux."
- TIHI
- I do not prefer apt-based systems, but I've installed variations of Ubuntu (e.g. Mint) on systems for geriatric (grand)parents in the past 5 years and have not yet needed to drop into shell to fix something.
  If the needs are basic (browsing, email, printing, documents), Linux hasn't needed wizardry for years. This is mostly thanks to Gnome and KDE's hard work on GUI admin tools, but if someone is going directly from Windows to i3, they've chosen a steep hill to climb.

Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
- No idea what you mean. I just quickly wanted to update before calling it a night, got a grub update and now it neither boots the default nor the fallback image. I use Arch BTW.
  
  so everything breaks daily i assume?
- Lol, this was almost 15 years ago and i was just a dumb impatient kid messing around with CentOS. I mainly stopped using it because I couldn't game on it and I didn't have as much spare time at school.
  
  KDE Neon for me. Previously Linux Mint. Both of their app stores are not great (on KDE Neon it only does flatpaks, and takes a full minute to launch), and my apt has had some kind of broken package/dependency for ages now. Also tried to install some app the other day through apt, cant remember what, but it wanted a different version of a package, but it wouldn't let me install it cause other things depended on a different version. In the end I just gave up and installed the flatpak instead.
  Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
  And Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros are supposed to be the easiest.
- My grandma runs Ubuntu and has gotten by fine without the command line
- I accept this fate.
  
  Lol, I'm not hating. I've had Linux before but it took more time then I had at that point learning and I mainly use my personal computers for gaming. Which is less of a headache on windows. That's just me though.
- I haven't had this kind of problems with Fedora or Nobara, for me they just work. I've had more problems and used more time troubleshooting Windows than Linux
- Yeah I’m not sure the last time you used Linux but it’s nothing like that these days. As long as you stick with a well established distribution you’ll be fine. I haven’t had to go in a “fix” an update in a while, even in some of the beta updates they’re fairly stable.
  
  Gaming on Linux is easier now but these Linux communities love gaslighting people. Go to any SteamDeck/Linux sub and you'll find tons of people having issues they wouldn't have in Windows.
- Mostly just when you initially install like most OSes ; browsers, office suits, game launchers, etc... My mother doesn't even notice fedora automatically installing updates when she turns her PC off. (I enabled automatic updates for her)
  Even with my arch Linux install with Hyprland, most of the time I just update before I turn it off. With a terminal command but even that is just paru and my password or flatpak update. If I had kde or gnome desktop, I could set it up to auto update too.
  Sometimes I don't even bother and use the computer without updating it for a couple of months or it automatically updates when I install new software.
- FUD

As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it's this.
I don't have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn't a turn off for them from the get-go.
- I would disagree with "average casual user" or maybe I think about them differently. For me average casual user now is completely fine with Linux distribution like Mint or Ubuntu or similar (or maybe chrome os). And with that they are little bit safer online as they are usual targets and victims of malicious software etc.
  I think casual users are type of people completely happy with internet browser, media player, image viewer and just basic software ... They are usually satisfied with regular Android phone Wich is enough for everything they do in computer space.
  This type of users (like my mother and other members of family) are fine with major Linux distros. They don't care about OS they use, it means nothing to them.
  This is where I draw the line when suggesting Linux to people. If they don't know and don't care ..Linux is usually fine. If they are aware of what type of os they use or even what version ( talking about Windows) I will suggest Linux only if they are open to it and I'm willing to help and recommend some software alternatives.

I remember I had a date with a girl back in the'10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
- My suspicion is it's not just your sexy Linux story but the only sexy Linux story.
  
  I mean we all know that recompiling the kernel is practically a replacement for sex
  
  Never been to PenguiCon, I guess.
- This is the best blowjob story I've read yet lol

Switch to Linux! Then you can have problems with Linux.
- i'm sorry, i've been out of the loop, and i haven't used windows on my own machines since XP quit being supported, but, fucking ads in the OS. i don't know if you're having me on or not.
  
  If you run an office and need your computers to be relatively idiotproof, use Windowss

Okay, I'll bite. I've been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it's never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I'm not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just... ALWAYS something that doesn't work right. And there's NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven't had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I'm willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
- I had the same experience as you did: I've tried Linux every few years ever since someone brought it to my attention in the nineties. And it always felt like a hobby instead of an invisible layer that just makes my computer tick. After Microsoft tried to ram W11 up my arse for the umpteenth time, I tried again recently. And it was amazing. Absolutely zero driver issues and it is FAST and CLEAN. No pop-ups or sneaky ads or any of the other things that make me feel like a tenant on my own computer. I now have a dual boot setup Ubuntu/W10, where I really only still use the W10 boot for games. And I have my office and audio software living in separate VM's that I can use regardless of which OS I booted into at the start.
  It's awesome.
  
  I've been trying to switch to Linux for the same reasons you mentioned. What OS are you dual booting with windows that you've been able to use as a daily driver?
  
  Yeah it's both windows going the Facebook route, and Linux getting quite user friendly IMO.
  I'm checking out Linux Mint since a bunch of years and now everything is a breeze, or already installed. Sure, I have learned a lot along the way, and maybe I use less specific softwares and more a browser, but still I feel it's (I haven't checked out gaming yet) become a quite mature os.
  And its inherent security that windows doesn't have (I know it's not "full security" or anything but at least an account is locked in in its own world) makes my Linux pop a command line instantly and my corporate (both thinkpads, corporate is faster) takes 30+ seconds to 'verify' over the internet that I'm not hAcKiNg I guess...
  I have never been as close as this to switch main PC to Linux :-p
- Three distros usually get recommended as fairly hassle-free. Ubuntu (personally haven't used since 2012 or so, don't like that they started advertising stuff), Linux Mint (haven't used in years either, but through no fault of Mint - I changed to something less hassle-free, Gentoo) and Pop!_OS. The latter uses customized Unity, but is working on its' own desktop environment. I have a feeling that when they're finished with it, it will be very user friendly (maybe not the FIRST release, but certainly the later ones).
  Mint and Pop!_OS are both based on Ubuntu, so you'll have the vast repository of knowledge that is AskUbuntu to help you with most things.
  So get one of those 3 distros and you'll be good! They come in different flavours (desktop environments), I believe GNOME is the most polished one, KDE (on
  Also there's two new methods to install software - flatpaks and snaps. Flatpaks are considered the better standard and are supported by Linux Mint and Pop!_OS out of the box and Ubuntu... tries to force you to use snaps. Flatpak is decentralized and anyone can host a store (but mostly you just need Flathub, which is configured by default on most distros I believe). Snap is centralized and its' backend is closed-source, so you're dependent on Canonical.
  Both of these install your software in a sort of sandbox that manages the dependencies - this means there should be no library version conflicts, so it doesn't matter what the system version of library X is, the application can use whatever version it needs. Should be a way to reduce compatibility issues on your Linux system, I believe - I haven't tried them yet, mostly because I minimized my kernel to the point where flatpak was complaining about missing some filesystem driver, and I didn't care too much about getting it to work. Will do it soon though.
  As for gaming - Pop!_OS has an image available that comes with nVidia drivers straight out of the box, but the other ones I suggested, will also allow you to install them easily. Steam can be installed via apt (may require configuring a secondary repository) or flatpak (Flathub has it!). Once you have Steam installed, playing Windows games is as easy as checking compatibility on Protondb and seeing if there are any tips on whether you should use a non-default Proton version or add command-line options. But most games without draconian kernel-level anticheats work nowadays. New AAA games that don't work on default Proton get support fairly quickly on the GloriousEggroll fork of Proton, but that has to be installed manually (I guess nowadays there's an utility that can handle it too). However, oftentimes, a brand new game will work right away on existing Proton versions too. And sometimes there are regressions, so you may also want to try older Proton versions for some games. But that's as simple as changing a setup option in the Steam GUI. No terminal-fu required.
  Overall, it's actually fairly pleasant compared to what it was 10 years ago, when you had to configure wine and pray. Proton handles all that for you. If you're a patient person and can wait a few weeks or months after a game comes out, it's very good, otherwise it can be a bit hit and miss.
  You CAN also play non-steam games using Proton via Steam. I played through the entirety of AC Valhalla that way, by adding Ubisoft launcher as a non-steam App. Completely unsupported so it doesn't have a special config like it does for officially supported games, but it worked, just had to change the version to something old
  
  This was really helpful and informative. Thanks for taking the time!
  I think I'm leaning towards Mint this time based on comments here and my research. Fingers crossed!
- Yeah ignore the people in this thread. I've been using Linux for the past year and a half, and it's the exact same experience for me. And I am definitely more technology literate than the average person.
  As much as people want to believe that Linux is easy and hassle-free, it's not, and it is a long way off. They are biased because they have technical knowledge so they don't see the problems that the average user would have.
  That being said, I do like Linux. There's a reason why I still use it despite all this. But it's up to you if it's worth it.
  Edit: Also all the people recommending Linux Mint, in my experience, it was horrible! Very unstable, and not even very customisable. I feel like I'm going crazy. Can someone explain why it's so popular? Was I doing something wrong?
- good luck this time, here's guide that got me to switch
- This is why Linux fanboys also need to embrace the "use the best tool for the job". I use Linux, just not on my daily driver gaming PC. But I also wouldn't use Windows as a hypervisor... they all have their place.

About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies "just use the command line", like cheers for that men, not what I'm asking for.
- AMEN! I asked recently if there was a good Linux alternative to this program I used in Windows called "Bulk Rename Utility" and i was flooded by people telling me how easy it was to set up a script to do what I want.
  Turns out the best alternative is running BRU in Wine.
  
  Krename is pretty nice
  
  There almost always powerful existing utilities that can do what you want in linux.
  But you have to find them and they have a learning curve. Sometimes that "curve" is a cliff.
  
  This makes me wonder how powerful a repo platform like gitlab would be if it allowed people to suggest software ideas and have people make them. In this instance a simple GUI wrapper for bulk rename command line would be sufficient but I would bet there's millions of things like that, not world changing software just nice qol stuff
  
  I'd have recommended KRename personally. It uses some programming-esque stuff (format specifiers for stuff), but it's not exactly difficult to do advanced stuff with it.
  
  No need for a script, just use rename.
- I still don't understand why there isn't a terminal-gui (you know, those text but graphical utilities) for basic stuff like mounting a network share. Why do I still need to manually edit fstab?!?
- Based 😁
- "Why even use a DE? Try a WM like openbox"
  Well, because a lot of things are simplified with DE functionality, and not everyone has the same preferences...
  
  The WM folks can be obnoxious lol. But it comes from a place of passion and love for the ecosystem so it’s not bad.
- I do have to vouch for sometimes the command line is easier, not with everything but sometimes. Like my VPN sometimes it’s a little slow on the uptake and finding a server all that nonsense but I can also just have a few taps away at the command line and bing bang boom it’s done.
- Like wanting to hear "this is the Year of the Linux Desktop" and needing to hear "this is the 27th consecutive Year of the Linux Desktop that failed"?

Replace some troubles, with different troubles. Brilliant, as usual...

- Tbh I would probably only bother to use a Linux machine for a media server really, Windows isn't going anywhere anytime soon, computer games, widespread office and engineering support, general purpose software support and the fact that everyone uses it is the big three reasons why it's still around, just look at how well Android has managed to stick around.
  I think the only way for Linux to get ahead would be to offer easy potential alternatives to all these things, even then they're only just competing
- Thing is, linux is not suitable for general crowd.
  How do you play Diablo 4 on Linux again? 4K while we're at it?
  
  My parents have a hard time clicking a download button and double clicking to install.
  There's no way I can get them to apt-get anything from a command shell.
  
  Given that you need to install non-native hi rez textures to play Diablo 4 in 4k on Windows, that is not a good test for the "general crowd".
  The moment you get into any kind of high end gaming PCs, you've already left "general crowd" territory for most computer users.

A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said "SWITCH TO LINUX". Now they have thousands of problems.
I've been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
- My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She's not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can't install anything on, can't remember what it's called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she's able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
  
  Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
  Let me give you the clue: "The Year of the Linux Desktop" has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn't arrived. There's a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
  Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I've been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
  
  Windows S can be turned off, but it does require an internet connection.
  
  All you have to do is turn that off and you can install anything you want. You took a simple problem and made it hard.
- As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
- I don't because I don't wanna be that guy.
  But in general these days, I'd absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they'll be right as rain.
  To be clear, I wouldn't have in like 2015.
- You gave Ubuntu to your grandmother and she fucking died?
  OMG, Linux kills grandmothers!
  (I know, I quit Windows around 95, it's just that I couldn't resist)
- I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
  
  They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
  
  I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
  
  There is fine line with being tech illiterate and being able to use linux when it all just works. The problems arise only when you are just slightly more advanced and want to do something weird without actually being able do it in linux with some things being a bit too much for the average Joe.

The ones that make me laugh uncontrollably are those Windows disk encryption issues for which the solution is…wait for it… run Linux from a LiveISO, fix the disk with Linux, then reinstall Windows. Because Windows is incapable of fixing its own issues that it itself caused.
- As a former computer service technician, we used Ubuntu Live USB and DVDs (yes it was a long ago) a lot.
- Windows lacking tooling to fix issues caused by its own malfeasance was what made my switch to Linux permanent. I used a LiveCD to fix file system issues that Windows had no tools for unless I wanted to pay thousands for janky third-party tools. Once I did that and recovered most of my lost data, I thought long and hard and just said "fuck it, I'll use Linux".
  None of my family will run Linux, however, on my recommendation. I can cope with Linux's ... selective set of user friends. They can't, and I'll be damned if I turn into free tech support.
- I remember something happened to my family's Windows computer once. A system file had gotten corrupted somehow so it could only boot into the repair utility, which, naturally, couldn't repair the file.
  The solution I found on Google was to put in the installation disc (I think it was Windows 7?), run the disc at startup (by switching the boot order in the BIOS), and fix it using Command Prompt on the disc.
  Windows' own diagnostic tool included with the OS couldn't fix the problem. Only the disc could. It was pretty fortunate we still had that thing. Until then, it had just been sitting there collecting dust.

No, you don't say "switch to Linux". This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask "Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can't help you"
- From my experience you wind up just hitting up YouTube or stack exchange or something similar for a tutorial on how to do something that could work out the box on a Windows machine

50% of the time the Microsoft forum help solution for any Windows problem is "Have you tried Re-installing Windows?"
source, my ass
- Or sfc scannow, absolute classic
  
  Hey, don't mock it like that! It actually worked for me once... Out of the 300 times I've seen it suggested over the course of my 5 years doing helpdesk.

Unless Linux starts getting support from game developers, I'm not switching
- Nearly all games work flawlessly on Linux now thanks to Steam and Proton.
  
  I was amazed yesterday. I tried L4D(1) on native GNU/Linux Steam (Ubuntu) and it just worked after installing the game, zero tweaking. No need to set up Steam for Windows with WINE or anything.
- I plan on trying SteamOS (since I only game, sit on discord and browse internet), just don't feel like installing it to find out nvidia drivers are not supported, so I'll just stick to Windows for now
- True, games are a big part of why people have stuck with Windows I think. The app store definitely isn't much to go by
- As a complete casual Linux user (made the switch last year), all the games I previously played on Windows work on Linux smoothly with minimal or no intervention on my part. Even started fiddling with emulators - Legend of Zelda BotW on yuzu worked right out of the box

Why? So I can have more trouble? :P

Linux will only be the solution when it finally learns to adequately cater to a better class of idiots. Once Linux handles a fool as well as Windows, then we can talk.
- Doesn’t even have to be a "class of idiots". It would be enough if stuff didn’t just sometimes break, seemingly randomly. (It’s not quite random, obviously.)
  Recent example: I had OpenSuse TW recommended because of its reliability. First tip: install codecs, which requires adding the Packman repository. Now, simply updating threw up errors several times because Packman and the other repositories are apparently not in sync, and some dependencies would break if I updated. (Waiting a few days "fixed" it, but still shouldn’t happen.)
  Depending on which update method you use (Yast/Discovery/zypper/update widget) you get different error messages, most of which are not informative. This is for an established distribution known for its reliability, and this alone would keep me from ever recommending it to normal users, even moderately tech-savvy ones.
  Things are getting better, but I’m still shopping around for a distro that just works. Perhaps that new Fedora version, or one of the immutable ones, now that they are getting popular.
- Pretty much. I'd absolutely love to run an idiot proof distro. If one existed.
  
  Mint is right there. Very foolproof as far as I've tested with family and friends.

Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they're too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes "normal" so nothing is amiss. It being broken is "normal" so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It's almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren't motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
- I've been using distros since Kubuntu 6.06. While I have dual boot, Ubuntu MATE is what I use everyday.
  A little over a month ago I built a new PC on the AM5 socket platform (modern hardware). The ASUS motherboard has a built-in Wi-Fi adapter. Windows 10? It just works, it simply required installing a driver at most. Ubuntu 22.04? Even lspci doesn't properly identify the adapter name. Now I have to hope that I can find a driver that I will have to compile and hope it to work.
  Unfortunately, GNU/Linux distros still aren't as convenient as Windows. Blame the hardware manufacturers in this case or whatever but, in any case, the final experience is not smooth.
- I honestly can't tell if you are making an ironic joke
  
  No joke at all. It's literally impossible to talk sense to anyone about how bad Windows is.
  I've done tech support for 20+ years with the first half being Windows support exclusively and the second half being largely, but not entirely, Linux support. Windows support is much much harder than Linux. Most linux errors are verbose and can be searched to find a wealth of sources of possible fixes. MS errors are nonsensical and usually land you on only one or two other posts that if they don't work you're entirely screwed.
  I can install Linux in about 15 minutes start to finish including all my commonly installed apps. Windows takes 45min minimum on a good day and if you already know which things are in the drivers DB and which things require third party downloads and installs (and where to get them). That's just OS and drivers. Software takes much much much longer from all the diverse third party sources. You could maybe cobble together some powershell or something that gets you like 90% of the way to the speed of installing Linux and software. But you're still going to have some stuff without the API access or CLI inputs that just can't be scripted.
  Battery life and heat production running Linux is much better because it doesn't spend all your free cycles exfiltrating your data to MS so machines just run faster, smoother, cooler and with better battery life.
  At no time do you have to pay for or worry about licenses just trying to install the damn OS. If I had a dime for every person I've known in my life running windows unlicensed with that sad black background and that persistent watermark I'd have enough money to afford a single windows home license ($139 Retail).
  I could go on. But why when, as noted, no one is going to give it the time of day.
- In the last decade the only serious troubleshooting I've had to do is on non-Windows OSes. Including an install of Ubuntu that I blew away because it froze in the middle of an upgrade and couldn't load into the OS anymore.
  So, speaking from personal experience, Windows is what I use when I just want stuff to work. Other OSes are fun when I have time to kill trying to figure out how to do things.
  
  If a had a nickel for every windows system that I've had to reformat due to a botched upgrade I'd have a small jar of nickels.
  
  The thing is, many of us know Windows better than our back yard, because it hasn't changed much in the past 14 years (Win7). What we might call "basic troubleshooting" might be on the same level as a similar issue on Linux if you knew nothing
- Half a year ago I started using Ubuntu for work. I hate it. Everything I want to do I can do with windows as well, just easier. Much easier. What I'm left with is a lot of theoretical benefits I'm never going to use and a whole lot of Googleing how to do basic things.
  On top of that the system isn't nearly as stable as Windows. Tons of display issues and even crashes. On a fresh install on a new developer laptop nonetheless. Speak for yourself, but for me the experience on Ubuntu is worse in almost every way.

I love Linux, but it's my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don't suggest Linux or even mention it's existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we'll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
- This, any old laptop with Windows xp, 7 or even ReactOS would do tbh, don't want to raise the bar giving a teenager an expensive win11 "Optimus Prime" box
- I don’t do tech support but I can’t relate at all.
  Windows is consistently the lowest quality software I interact with and Linux (Fedora) works out to be more reliable, simple, and often better featured.
  
  Transition costs are massive though. Just like implementing any significant change in anyone's life, it's impossible for a technically illiterate person to change to linux.

Mass acceptance on the desktop will never happen for Linux and the Linux community itself is mostly the problem. For the same reason why open source software, for the most part, is just so god awful (with a few fantastic examples). It is software written by developers, for developers with little consideration for users. It tends to be clunky and counterintuitive.
- I always want to try new programs but it's always a console command program or sometbing that you need to build yourself
  
  You just summarized my 2/3 attempts to switch from Ubuntu to Debian.
  
  Ugh. I am here to USE my computer and USE a program, not endlessly tinker with it. I grew up with DOS and the command line and pre-GUI interfaces - I will never go back to that garbage again.

That used to be me. Now whenever someone ask me to fix their computer I'm like "no hablo windowes"

Bird 1: I have some trouble with Linux.
Bird 2: Whistles and flies off…
- No, bird 2 then screams at bird 1 for using Ubuntu and recommends
  <FLAVOR OF THE MONTH HERE>
  distro that will totally work and is totally easy to use despite the lack of documentation. It's then bird 1's fault if they can't get their niche hipster distro to work.
  
  I am unfortunately guilty of recommending niche "hipster" distros back in the day. Now I know to recommend the basics. Or just nothing at all so I don't have to be unpaid tech support.

A tale as old as time.
I remember back in the early 2000s when I first got into IT. My manager at Burger King was one of those Linux guys and he tried to get me to install Gentoo. And his status message in MSN Messenger (probably used Pidgin too) was “In a world without windows, who needs Gates?”
I think this has mostly died down with PCs becoming less common than phones.

I'm that guy LOL

This is the way
- This is the way

Im gladly to help!!

ngl, the "switch to linux" crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that "my car is making some weird sounds" and the response is to "buy a new car!" I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
- Often it's worse. It like telling people to move to a different country because the roads are better there.
  
  Yeah nah I think of it kinda like the whole custom ROMs thing for Android. Most people could care less until performance drops to the degree that they have to switch over
  
  As a petrol head, that is a very convincing argument to move.
- Ehh
  More like someone saying
  "Then change the station"
  When someone complains
  "I don't like the ads on this radio station that I listen to in my car on the drive home"
  There's no financial loss by doing so, it's relatively easy, just have to find out which frequency another broadcast you like is playing on
  
  You know, I can't remember the last time that changing the station on my radio required me to sift through thousands of subtly out of date web pages to find clues as to why I just can't hear that one guitar riff.
  
  Yes but I don't want to listen to country.
  
  But the other radio doesn't play the vital radio show you need for work.
- Linux is free if you don't value your time.
  
  depends how much you value your time. if you've nothing to do or just like fucking about with your os in your spare time then sure, linux is free. if you're, say, a freelance graphic designer and actively losing money whilst trying to learn the foibles of a new os, and just fixing the bullshit that win & mac do by default; then it's decidedly not

After I installed Linux on all my family laptops all OS problems was "surprisingly" desapeared.
- "How do I connect to my printer?"
  
  Cups
- Because they don't work or because they don't know how to use them anymore? ;)
  
  No one's opened their laptop in months, not a single issue to fix, that's what we call problem solving!
  
  I can only imagine the shit show that would commence if I put Linux on my mom's laptop
  Mom sms: It's asking for permissions again, I forgot my password!
  Me: It's in the notebook, mom.
  Mom: I can't find the notebook!
  Me: Last I saw it, it was on the coffee table.
  Mom: Found it!
  ...
  Mom: It doesn't work!
  Me: Are you looking at the brown notebook or the pink one?
  Mom: Yes!
  Me: Yes what? Are you in?
  Mom: Yes, I have a notebook and the password doesn't work!
  Repeat forever.

Yeah not a very big fan of trying to get people to switch platforms especially if they are non-technical as if they A) have the mental bandwidth to change their whole workflow paradigm to appease someone else’s ideals, and B) even have a use case where Linux is an option
Anyone’s negative feelings for Windows and Office’s telemetry or Apple’s walled garden is justified but if I do know what Linux is, I didn’t decide to use Windows because I wanted to lick bill gates’ boots, I have a specific use case. And if I don’t know what it is, I probably need the OOB usability that Windows and OSX offer
- No it's simple, if everyone is using Windows for engineering software, making everyone switch to Linux is going to have to involve a whole group, if you're one person, you've got very little incentive to change your whole workflow

Windows issues?
- Nah bro, don't get let yourself get locked into shit, get both, just get one laptop running two o.s and use whichever one suits the job you're trying to do

how do these two birds interact in the first place?

I dual boot just so I can still have programming software for many of my ham radios. Planning on getting a graphics card soon and then I'll use windows for that and fallout 🥴
- Neat

Pop os wolnt let me use my gpu so there's that

First time I agree with the Raven. Switch to Linux!!! Windows is just a shitshow, we all watch and can't believe they are doing this. Win 11 will bring us one of the biggest hardware-waste ever in a world where we should spare with resources.
But hey, throw that 4GB RAM machine in the trash bin everyone wants Win11. So glossy and shiny, so hot right now.
- Do you know what makes windows great? It just works out of the box with broad driver and software compatibility. Extensive hardware support (Windows 10 runs on any brand new hardware as well as old hardware from 12 years ago). Many professional software applications, such as Adobe Creative Cloud, Autodesk products, and Microsoft Office, are primarily developed for Windows. If you rely on specific professional software, Windows offes better compatibility and support.
  Linux offers better security and has a large repository of open source software as well as being very developer friendly. If you're reading this it's thanks to Linux. However switching to Linux isn't a viable option for everyone for the aforementioned points. It surprises me to this day how many smart and tech savvy individuals still can't grasp this concept.
  
  Yeah, I'm going to have to call you on that whole "Windows just works"TM business. I just had to install drivers, during setup, for a regular hard drive in Windows Server 2019. Last time I tried to run the game Rust on Windows 11 it just wouldn't run and I blew hours and never could find a solution. Had to go back to Win 10 to get it to run. It's also pretty easy to pay attention to any news feed and see an endless string of Windows is now broken like X on basically a weekly basis at this point. MS Fired their entire QA team and only tests on virtual machines now. Zero surprise Windows breaks in all sorts of new and interesting ways when it finally meets the real world. Anyone who makes this statement is at best naive and at worst a bold face liar/shill. I do try to assume most people are the prior of course.
  That said the rest of your statement is spot on. Right tool for the right job will never not be relevant.
  
  Linux is not more secure really, it's just assumed to be so because it's less widely attacked for having less market share
  
  Extensive hardware support is not really true. Windows is supported by hardware manufacturers because it's popular, but Microsoft isn't the one making drivers. So Windows doesn't have extensive hardware support since after installing the OS you have to spend time installing drivers which manufacturers made otherwise it's almost unusable.
- The whole point of an OS is to streamline the process it takes to run your applications. No matter how great it is for you, Linux does not do that for everyone.

Also mention that you use Arch

I did. But then I just ended up having to google how to fix linux issues nonstop so I switched back
- I used linux for ten years, but have to use windows for work now. I have the same problem. Only difference is I have to Bing how to fix windows issues.
  
  No. Absolutely no. Bill Gates would cry.

Really though, switch to Linux.

Of course I know him, that's me!

Unfortunately I've definitely been the raven at least once.

Most birds have trouble with windows. Especially when they are polished and super shiny

I would love to switch completely to Linux, but the Engineering software I use is specific to Windows and their certified drivers (Solidworks). However, my home computer may get the switch sooner than later! I love how well SteamOS works and now I want it on my main machine.
- Tried FreeCAD?
  
  Unfortunately I have and there is currently not any Foss alternative to solidworks. The number of extensions and features and ui automation options is crazy. I would suggest cracking it but that might not make an employer comfy
  Edit: on my home computer I have been using manjaro and endeavor exclusively for a few years. I am an advocate of Foss and Linux. I hope something does become available.

Felt called out by someone

SWITCH TO LINUX

Where did you get this picture of me?

You don't have to even use Windows. Even Ubuntu will do sometimes lol
- Pop!_OS has made things even easier than Ubuntu now. At least from a default look, feel, and getting started quickly perspective.
  
  Yet to try this

I'm not like this!!!

Every time I try Linux on my own, it's fine. But God forbid I ever use any device that comes with Linux pre-installed, and I'm cursed. I'm on my third steam deck after it software bricked itself, and our university Linux server is so unstable that it disconnects my session with vim every 30 minutes or so. Pain. At least there's a method to the madness: trust nobody but myself :P
- Holy hell, three Decks? How did they get bricked? I've had mine since the second shipment batch and beyond some very early software issues it's been pretty solid.
  
  Hey I had an old Samsung I bricked and unbricked at least four times once
  
  Yeah, the first one was DOA, the second (in the most amazing of ironies) started downloading an update by itself, which dropped my game down to 10fps. When I restarted the deck and the update applied, it corrupted everything so badly that even the BIOS wasn't left intact. Nothing I did or valve support could do could bring it back, even with reflashing the OS. And while I might be a moron, I've also been building/watercooling PCs and tinkering with OSs for well over a decade. That deck was bone stock and on stable channel xD
  I'm on my third one now, and so far it's been smooth sailing...mostly. I still haven't put a screen protector on it, because I think that jinxed my last two, lmao. Thank God everything is backed up.
- Screen and tmux are your friends in this situation. They can keep your vim session alive when your SSH connection drops, so you can reconnect and continue where you left off.
- Have you tried using Mosh? It's the "Mobile Shell" which was built to survive the dodgey connections of WiFi, mobile/cell and long distance SSH connections. Well worth a look if you're having problems with a disconnecting shell.
  It's available on all versions of Linux, iOS, Mac and Android.

It's not coming completely out of nowhere. The fact that you're having a discussion on Lemmy means the people you're conversing with are aware that you're willing to consider libre alternatives to shitty mainstream tech.
- Reddit fucked it a lot harder than Windows has though, Windows might do annoying stuff but it does work and I don't need like, a Windows is fun app to make it do what I want it to. Mostly.
  
  I at least modify the layout Windows to be more like 7.

Ok - any good tutorial zero to hero?
- ur welcome

- Please try linux mint, it truly is an exellent and nearly bullet proof OS. Pretty much the most popular distro so theres a good chance if you ever do run into an issue or want to know something its not hard to find the info you need with a simple query. No driver jankiness or hardware support issues ive ever experienced either.
  
  Maybe I'm an old dog now, but the new GNOME and KDE desktops kind of grate on me just like the new Win10 does
- I would suggest Fedora KDE spin or Opensuse. Both have KDE as first class citizen.
  
  I mean if their problems were Plasma-specific, it might also be a good idea to try Gnome or something instead.

Oh, I'm sorry. Is there supposed to be some kind of joke here??? This strikes me as perfectly reasonable!

Steam os? Isn't it nix?
- It is. The current version found on the Steam Deck is based on Arch Linux.
  
  It is but it is not really workable to use pacman. Each steamos major update breaks all installed packages as it has an immutable root that overwrites anything installed by you.
  Most people just use appimages and flatpaks as they are installed on home so they are not overwritten.
  
  And for non handhelds it provides 0 benefits over any other distro with Steam on it.

Don't listen to the raven. Switch to BSD!
- *switches back to Windows XP
  *Refuses to elaborate
  
  I said BSD not BSOD!

I've been trying to switch to Linux for 30 years now and am still trying to figure out permissions. Best of luck!
- If you figured out how logging into any site works, you can figure out permissions. Claiming that after "trying to switch" for 30 years and still are unable to figure out permissions means either you are lying or not trying to switch. And mind you not wanting to use it or not trying to switch is fine, but making mountains out of mole hills is just disingenuous.

...I mean.... if you -STILL- want to use Windows (and only) Windows at current date, Year of Gaben 2023? Then you either need a reality check or to stop being -THAT- lazy.
- 2022 and 2023 I made multiple decent attempts to go Linux and I've finally ragequit back to Windows where things finally just work. Currently using WSL for my Linux needs.
  So many frustrating hours.
  Unresolvable sound issues
  Multi monitor issues
  Size scaling issues
  Couldn't get my games working even for Gold rated proton games
  Don't think I ever got nvidia drivers working correctly
  Really struggled on some distros to find the correct packages for some things because they were named differently?
  Couldn't find how to set a desktop background that filled my entire screen in Gnome. It kept repeating to fill the screen instead of just "zooming"
  Got 100% CPU usage in KDE just doing nothing
  Didn't even want to start figuring how to run my Windows-only apps because by that time I was a bundle of stress and just wanted to use my pc without fighting it every step
  Conclusion for me: Windows is best DE, so use Windows+WSL
  I'm a bit sad about it because I'm getting more and more frustrated with Windows 11 direction. It seems each update brings a new configuration or "feature" that makes things more difficult for me.
  I do feel I am being pushed out of Windows.
  For about the last 10 years I try going Linux roughly every 3 years. So I'll give it another shot in a couple of years.
  I fully understand for some people it just works. But it is not yet my personal Year Of Linux Desktop
  
  I'm sorry to hear that you've had a poor experience with trying to migrate to Linux. It is a big switch in terms of how the OS is structured and how things work. Unfortunately the out of box experience of Linux on personal laptops and desktops can be quite poor for commonly recommended distros like Ubuntu especially if you want to game.
  This might be contentious with some people but if you or anyone is feeling adventurous and in the mood to try to understand how Linux works, I would recommend Arch. It gives you the reins to setup and configure your system how you wish. I would however try it in a VM first before going dual boot or as your sole driver.
  I've tried many Linux distros over the years (Mint, Ubuntu, Centos, etc) but Arch has been the most stable and enjoyable to use. I have one install from 2013 that's still going strong. Nvidia drivers or Steam can be installed without setting up PPAs or downloading binaries as one might need to do on other Linux distros. Most third party apps I would want are available through the Arch User Repository (AUR). The Arch wiki is amazingly useful for any Linux user.
  Most games I play work through Steam or Lutris with the latest Proton from https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom

Windows issues?