Limited Freedom

Hey big shoutout to all the Redditors and Lemmy guys who told me that we can have no restrictions on free speech because if we restrict Nazis they will restrict us if they ever gain power.
Welp, here ya go...like I told you...and many of you blocked and/or banned me for saying it. Ironic.
- i felt like the trolls on reddits are just RU stoking anger and division.
- You'll never easily get through to those people. They hold idealism over material reality in many cases.
  The best way I've found to get even some of them to at least stop and think for a minute is to ask if preventing people from doing things like:
  Screaming slurs next to a preschool
  Publishing deliberately false information to ruin someone's reputation
  Doxxing someone who was mean to you
  ...is justified. If they say yes, then maybe unlimited free speech isn't perfect, and restricting Nazis could be justified. If they say no, then you'll know they're a lost cause.
  
  Is the problem the speech or the people tbat speak it?

If you make the 1st Amendment illegal, the rest of the Constitution cannot be far behind.
- if? people have already been blackbagged for their speech. this is just encoding something already in effect.

How tf can u ban a boycott, how is that even possible let alone provable 🤦 Politics aside if I js don't like a brand that endorses or has ties to Israel would I then be subject to charges. How u trynna force people to buy from certain companies, what if I was bruk, would I be breaking the law? 🤡
- Excuse me I saw you drinking flat water where is your soda stream ice this one get this one
- This will probably be used to target protestors and organizers of political movements.
  
  Yeah, the boycott itself can't reasonably be prosecuted. But it can be used to suppress discussion (e.g. organization, coordination) of said boycott.
- it will probably use to target protestors, and groups criticial of israel.

Is that legal? It doesn't sound legal. I'm sure they could make it illegal for US government agencies to boycott Israel because that's at least partially a foreign policy decision, but private businesses? What are they gonna do, force you to buy Israeli goods?
- narrator: it didn't sound legal because it wasn't.

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
- And the USSC has definitely ruled that money is equivalent to speech. So boycott activity is logically covered under this Amendment.
  If this law passes, a lot of people are going to have a rough year or two until they can get a case all the way to the Supreme Court.
- Because republicans care so much about laws they don't agree with.
  
  Or parts of the religions they thump on about.

Incremental steps into the police state.
- We are in a police state. This is more.

How do I boycott Israel in the first place? Not booking my next vacation there? Do I get 20 years in prison for that?
- It seems like theatre. How will you ever prove that I chose Burger King over McDonalds for political reasons?
  
  I don't eat meat. BK has Impossible burgers and McD's doesn't. Of course they've been coming after synthetic meat too in some places. They're throwing a fit because a single-digit % of the population had the audacity to opt out of eating meat derived from animals.
- https://bdsmovement.net/Act-Now-Against-These-Companies-Profiting-From-Genocide
  Whatever the legal status of officially boycotting Isreal, there's still no law against just incidentally not doing business with the companies.
  Before someone says they can't avoid some of these: OK, then boycott the other ones.
  Whatever sand you have to throw, throw it in the gears of genocide. Don't just do nothing.
  
  The Constitution says there's also no law against actively and loudly not doing business with the companies
- disoccupied.com
- They make a surprising amount of things. I noticed a woodworking tool I have was made in Israel. Never expected that.
  
  I have a plastic table I use for woodworking and general carpentry that I later found out might be made in Israel, the brand is Keter. I see they sell lots of outdoor storage solutions locally as well, will avoid that brand in the future. Out of interest, what did you buy so I know what to look out for?

Didn't CU rule that spending money is free speech? So isn't compelling the spending of money compelling speech? Sounds straight up unconstitutional.(as if that fucking matters these days)
- Rich people spending money is free speech.
  Anti-genocide activists not spending money is terrorism.
  AKA the usual.
- Wait, doesn't your argument support their bill?
  They're agreeing with you; they are suggesting that convincing people of what to do with their money is infringing on their "speech."
  
  My argument is that republicans are never consistent with their policies.
  Spending isn't free speech. The government cannot compell speech. This doesn't not mean that the government can compell spending (I mean, it sorta can with taxes and fines, but it can't compell spending to select businesses, markets or groups.)
  
  Is it saying it's illegal to "convince"(therefore not the consumer) or it's illegal to "participate" (meaning the consumer)

Wait you first blame us for not having free speach, because lying about the holocaust is illegal and now you ban boycotting Israel for engaging in a de facto genocide?

Well, we now know what death cult is behind the misery of literally the entire world.
- Irony: Nazis are teaching the rest of us who hate Nazis how to hate the Jews

How do you outlaw a boycott? It's not an act, it's a non-act. An absence of a purchase. How do you distinguish boycott from just not buying something you don't want or need like any other item. Are we going to be required to put so much of our purchases toward Isreal now?
- boycott
  probably using to target groups that are protesting against israel.
- Ding ding ding.
  This is how they "lawfully" throw "dissidents" into the gulag.
  Remember...most of what Hitler did was technically legal and above-board. Because they controlled the laws and shaped them as they saw fit.
- the state wants to lock you up, figures out you don't drink coca cola, You're on trial for not buying Coca-Cola, or Nestle, or never tried Sabras hummus... straight to jail.
- Wrong think will be punished
- Back in the days the Spanish Inquisition would become suspicious of people who seemed to not eat pork.
  In other words, yes, precisely, they're trying to sus out heretics. Don't want to be mistaken for one? Perform the rites publicly, then.
- You outlaw a boycott by using violence against those who promote the boycott. It's not even anything new. Many states have already been doing this. Not to mention recent disappearances of anti-genocide activists.
  Violence in service of hegemony is almost the entire purpose of the state.
- Not just show your papers, show your recent Israel approved consumer good purchases!
- Twitter sued advertisers who said they were boycotting it, and it worked somehow…

How tf do you ban boycotts? What if I just don't want to consoom all the time?
- Probably that is a threat for anyone spreading boycott movement in social media. So if you post McDonald are shit, bad for the health and do not consume them, you are ok. If you post don't go to McDonald because they support a genocide by Israel, then it is another story.
  And so the fear begins. Its a first step.
- Sorry, we checked your recent bank transactions and you haven't spent enough money at [Insert Corporation]. Please pay the $100 fine or serve one day at [Insert Corporation] as a free laborer.

First you get people comfortable with defending genocide in another country, then they won't be so resistant when you start doing it in your own country.
- They were russian astroturfs
  
  Who is they?

Hopefully someone makes a list of brands and companies that you aren't allowed to boycot according to usa republicans and then publishes that list online on a user friendly website. After all, without that information, people might be unknowingly breaking the law when they start a personal boycot.
- Genius. Unfortunately, they will most likely target anti-genocide activist, check their phone for any BDS material and charge them with this.
  It is not for the masses it is for the vocal once.
  
  this, i just deleted my BDS apps, will have to rely on manually checking things with a vpn.

Gosh I wonder how the democrats will vote on this.

5 Democrats are cosponsors:
Josh Gottheimer - NJ-5
Jared Moskowitz - FLA-23
Joseph Morrell - NY-25
Donald Davis - NC-1
Laura Gillen - NY-4
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/867/all-info
- Dear lord. Why are Dems getting involved in pushing fascism?
  
  There have always been liberal collaborators to fascism, this isn't new.
  
  they dont care about the fascism aspect, they care that it guarantees them their seats, just like %90 of all the politicians.
  
  Same as it ever was
  
  When Israel started full scale genocide in Gaza, Biden started giving them more money for weapons. Genocide and fascism are the Democratic party platform now.
  
  Wer hat uns verraten…? Sozialdemokraten…
- Are they considered Isreali products🤔
  
  Yes. You will be required by law to purchase Josh Gottheimer.

Oh you didn't buy a Soda Stream?
Believe it or not, straight to jail!

Law is summarized as:
Prohibited actions include (1) refusing to do business with companies organized under the laws of the boycotted country, if the refusal is pursuant to an agreement with or request from the country or IGO imposing the boycott; (2) refusing to employ any U.S. person on the basis of race, religion, sex, or national origin; and (3) furnishing information about whether someone is associated with charitable or fraternal organizations that support the boycotted country.
- So it seems like if you decide not to buy a shirt made in Israel because the EU suggests a boycott, you go to jail and/or get fined. Clear violation of the 1st ammendment.
  
  Practically, how do you prosecute someone for not voluntarily consuming a good or service?

Can someone explain why Israel is so important to them? Aren’t these the same people who are antisemic? Additionally, how does supporting Israel make the us a Christian nation?
- For a lot of evangelicals and orthodox jews, they believe the Third Temple must be built at Temple Mount for the Messiah to return/come. Christians are a death cult and it's part of their eschatology to work towards those ends to bring about the Second Coming and the rise of New Jerusalem/Zion.
  In terms of realpolitik Israel is a strategic foothold in an geographically important area rich with resources and trade routes.
- Evangelical Christianity is a death cult predicated on Israel's existence and eventual destruction.
  All those Christian "friends of Israel" long to see every Israeli dead. Because that means the end of the world. White Jesus comes back. A horn is blown. World War ending specifically in fire. Not a flood this time cuz God pinky swore not to.
  And everyone except for 144,000 of the most insane Christians is damned to hellfire for all eternity. Jebus rebuilds heaven on Earth.
  That's the whole story. From an Exvangelical who was raised in this snake-fuckingly crazy nonsense.
  
  Evangelical Christianity is a death cult predicated on Israel’s existence and eventual destruction.
  I.e. simultaneously zionist and antisemitic
  
  Lol, imagine someone attacks Israel with a nuke, triggers an entire nuclear armageddon, and the whole world is englufed in "fire and brimstone," and the crazy mother fuckers were right all along.
  
  If they want every Israeli dead, then why are they trying to save Israel? Maybe a better question is, do they want the end of the world now or is it this something they want to look forward to?
- The American economy since WW2 has relied on funding and supplying armed conflict.
  No other entity has supplied more justification for that end.
- Evangelists odd profecies, but mostly lobbying. AIPAC.
- Money, grifting, racism, indoctrination, etc... All the usual reasons that people would support fascism.
  Plus heretics preaching this garbage to several religions.
  https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/qanda-for-every-1-jewish-zionist-there-are-30-christian-zionists-and-netanyahu-exploits-this-15656249

Fuck this shit, this is intentionally vague to be used as a cudgel

Sounds kinda DEI to me
- It's DEI for "white" people from europe so it's ok.

This is brilliant, you could have the gestasi inspecting everyone at the checkouts at a supermarket, and if you don't buy a Sodastream cartridge, you get disappeared.
(Sodastream is an Israeli company, and used to manufacture their machines in an industrial park in an Israeli settlement on the West Bank)
- Sodastream is an Israeli company
  I didn't know that. Good thing I've been boycotting their cylinders for years.
  
  Well fuck, I just got one, I just assumed they were a german company since they're so popular there

How is this to enforced. Is there to be a Israeli mandated amount of product that you would need to buy.
- Vague laws can be abused easier.
- "Please drink a verification can"
  
  Omg!! This is how we get there, isnt it?! 😳
- You will be expected to wear your Israeli pager at all times
- It's already a law in huge chunks of the state.
  https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-states-colleges-illegal-bds-1895292

What goods or services does Israel provide that we're "boycotting "
- Apparently we import a ton of legislation.
  
  And also, apparently, Signal forks with security backdoors put in by former Israeli intelligence officers.
- They dont, they boycotting is aim at company that actively participate in the genocide. Microsoft Cloud and AI services for and other Software and Hardware companies for example. Companies that donate money to them or they have headquarter in illegal occupied land. And many others. The BDS movement for example provide a list of companies highlighted by the United Nations to be performing illegal activities in the west bank.
  
  (not to be pedantic)
  but it's both, both boycott Israel companies and products (like hummus illegally farmed in the West Bank. but also companies who participate and engage in Apartheid, like Coca cola that has bottling plants in the west bank as well. or companies that profit from their apartheid, like CAT, or Microsoft/google...
  
  Yeah well they can't make people buy that shit
- Surveillance, military weaponry against civilians, racism, etc.
  Also phony "israeli" hummus.
  
  Aren't we exporting that? Like always?

I'm going to guess that they're trying to make it seem like boycotts are a serious threat. It's a start but not enough.

How to hack your GDP while ordinary people suffer
Private weapons manufacturers make more weapons than should ever be needed.
Why? Your country gained its wealth by becoming the world's largest weapons manufacturer, making it the greatest financial beneficiary of WW2. That manufacturing infrastructure didn't just disappear overnight.
Large government subsidies to countries like Israel which aren't actually cash, rather they are purchases of these privately manufactured weapons using taxpayer dollars. These are given to Israel and other countries / entities in the world which perpetuate military conflict in order to keep feeding the machine.
There you have it. Production and consumption which keeps your GDP and GDP per capita growing without providing a meaningful benefit to humanity.

How will they enforce it? Does the government send out Israeli products by mail to Americans and then arrest whomever refuses to pay for the products they didn't ask for? Ordering people to buy specific products can't be even remotely legal. Buy Tesla cars or go to jail, is what this amounts to.
- Here is the bill (it's like two pages)
  I'm not a lawyer so I could be reading this wrong but this law doesn't apply directly to citizens, per se.
  The law that it modifies basically makes it illegal for a company to contractually require you to boycott another company that you disagree with, but one that is allied toward the US.
  For example, imagine you're the CEO of ACME and you want to do business with Aperture Science, Inc. Aperture can't, as a condition of you doing business with them, restrict you from working with Israeli companies.
  That all being said, I do not trust this administration will use the law for it's intended purpose and will instead use it as a club to beat people with.
  
  Thank you. I've been so confused seeing this bill sent around with people saying it's intended to punish any given individual for choosing to not buy from Israel. I could absolutely be wrong (I'm also not an attorney), but it definitely reads like you have to either be pressured or compensated by a foreign nation (or an IGO if this bill passes) to be impacted by this.
  That said, your last point is completely fair...so maybe people are right to worry as though this will get used against them even if they're not boycotting in league with a foreign power. With the folks in this admin, maybe it will 🤷🏻‍♂️
- This is a cudgel to use against leftist activists when they are identified through social media skimming and illegal surveillance. The charge of antisemitic activity will be constructed parallel to their desire to brutalize them.
  And they all get a stack of AIPAC cash to implement this too.
- Just ask all of the places that have already done this.
  https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-states-colleges-illegal-bds-1895292
- I guess raising awareness of products origin and why one should boycott becomes the issue.

I always thought the Israeli would destroy the US is some fashion

The courts won't enforce this right, because of freedom of speech, right?
- Freedom of what? Sounds like something communist to me /s
  
  Freedom of what?
  😆 I dunno why I thought this was so funny lmao.
- It's already law in a huge chunk of land controlled by the regime.
  https://www.newsweek.com/pro-palestinian-protest-states-colleges-illegal-bds-1895292

Republicans do this shit because it makes people vote against Democrats
Far right zionists vote against Democrats because most Democrats will oppose it
Leftists vote against Democrats because a few of them will support it
Pure win for Republicans.

Well, if that isn't freedom of speech, I don't know what is. So much freedom, it oozes oil.

Don't worry guys, this will surely create blowback next election and a liberal can be back in charge
- No no. The "liberal" won't be liberal enough. Gotta wait for the right type of liberal before we vote against Nazi.
  /sarcasm
  
  It really is too early to be gritting my teeth man.
  
  Gotta wait for another nazi who's liberal enough.
  Do y'all want genocide? Or do you want liberal genocide? Remember, if you don't vote for genocide, then the genocide is your fault.
  
  Maybe if they're alpha and lose their woke reputation they won't need those crazies who are demanding them to do something 'meaningful'

Lets wait and see what percentage of democrats will vote yes