"Men experience that, too, you know!"

There exists a persistent stubborn refusal to allow women to discuss the way that discrimination against us is gendered in society. It's part of the control politics of patriarchy and neoliberal meritocracy. They will deny deny deny as much and as frequently as possible that women are a separate class from them in society. Instead, they will insist that women deserve or have earned the treatment we receive. Society has to be meritocratic in their view, so if women get prescribed pain medication provably less often, then it's because something about women means we deserve/require it less than men do. This is the same with wages. The same is true with household labor, with child rearing, with sexual violence, etc. "Women are paid less because they take more time off and are less career oriented, they prefer doing household labor more than men do, they have a motherly instinct that drives them to care for children more than men do, and men are predisposed in some biological way to commit more acts of sexual violence than women are."

It is a fundamental refusal to acknowledge the existence of gender class. A persistent denial that men and women have fundamentally different experiences in every area of society. It has to be something about the actions of women or something innate about women themselves. It absolutely can not be a product of how women are classed in society. This thinking is poisonous and not restricted to one group, it is pervasive and exists everywhere. Much like with racism, being actively anti racist means engaging with your own internalized racial biases. Being feminist isn't one single thought or belief. It is a pattern of continual appraisal of the systems of gender hierarchy. Many men who believe themselves to be feminists misunderstand this and think simply saying they believe men and women ought to be treated as equals is enough to qualify them as pro womens liberation. Men and women are distinct social classes, and so ought to be analyzed and treated in the same manner as other social classes (like race, wealth, religion, etc)

So the logical thing for men to do, not believing that men and women are entirely distinct social classes who have entirely separate experiences in society, is to bring up their own experiences. If we say that the way we suffer is gendered and unique, they have to experience the same thing or worse. One of the easiest ways for them to do this is to insist that men and women receive equal barriers within society. "It can't be gendered violence against women because men are assaulted by other men very often too." Just deny as much and as often as possible that a difference exists at all.

I also share your frustration with this platform and its stubborn and persistent misogyny. I have spent as much time on here arguing with fascists and misogynists. Lemmy has a large population of male tech workers. They brought a lot of their misogyny with them from other platforms.

Called an ambulance with kidney pain, was told I was ovulating. Not the only example, but one of the worst.

Preach lady!

Here in Canada, women pay approximately 43% more than men for personal care products creating an undue financial burden on women. We need to regulate the pink tax out of existence.

I also roll my eyes so hard when immature men go out of their way to complain about menstrual products being provided for free in washrooms.

It's not always easy in a text-based exchange, so forgive me if I go on too long.

Your point is well made; there are plenty of people out there who are always "clapping back" with "b-b-but ...!" On the other hand, there are also people whose opinion is that women always have it worse than men, full stop. Neither of those positions is an informed one.

To take your example about clinics requiring permission from your spouse if you want to have a medical procedure to prevent pregnancy -- bear with me, please -- men absolutely do experience the same when seeking vasectomies. I am quite certain that this specific issue is more common when the patient is a woman, and it is utter bullshit no matter who the patient is. I mention it, though, because it's a problem that affects both women and men, and we should all be pulling together to solve it for all of us.

We should all be in favor of recognizing and solving problems for everyone, even if there are a lot of problems which affect various demographics to greater or lesser degrees, whether those problems affect us directly or not.

Thanks for posting this!

As a cis man I have to admit I always enjoy it when experiences of women are put in the spotlight in discussions. I think if we keep our ears open and listen empathically we can learn how to do better and the knee-jerk reaction of: „But men also suffer!“ Always feels so weird because I think why isn’t our reaction: „God this really is happening to all of us, let’s finally combat it!“

Thanks for bringing the topic up and I hope future discussions will not be met with such a barrage of trolling and opposition. Thanks for the moderation as well.

I think I also wanna highlight that WHEN we listen we also hear that the demands and wishes being proposed by women especially in a health setting are not only totally achievable and doable but would also improve service for EVERYONE. So there is also a lot of good stuff to gain from listening and acting on it.

Hey shark, great points! Women are marginalised a lot and even when we raise women's issues, it often becomes about men! Sorry your post got hit by trolling and thanks to all that reported it