1d ago

I don't get the love for Nextcloud - alternative for just files?

I tried Nextcloud a while back and was not impressed - I had issues withe the speed of the Windows sync that were determined to be "normal" with no roadmap to getting fixed. I'm now planning to move off Windows desktop so that won't be an issue - so I thought I'd try again.

I went to nextcloud.com, clicked on Download-> Nextcloud server -> All-in-one -> Docker image - Setup AIO. This took me to the github README at Docker section. I'm already running docker for other things so I read the instructions, setup a new filesystem for my data directory and ran the suggested docker command with an appropriate "--env NEXTCLOUD_DATADIR=". I'm then left with a terminal running docker in the foreground - not a great way to run a background server but ok, I've been around for a while and can figure out how to make it autostart in the background ongoing. So I move on to the next step - open my browser at the appropriate URL and I'm presented with a simple page asking me to "Log in using your Nextcloud AIO passphrase:". I don't have a Nextcloud AIO passphrase and nothing I've read so far has mentioned it. When I search for it I get some results on how to reset it, but not much help. I could probably figure that out too, but after reading some more I found that Nextcloud requires a public hostname and can't work with a local name or IP address. I'm already running my home LAN with OpenVPN and access it from anywhere as "local" - I don't really want to create a new path into my home network just for Nextcloud.

I'm sorry - I know this sounds like a disgruntled rant and I guess it is. I just want to check that I'm not missing obvious things before I give up again. All I want is a simple file sync setup like onedrive but without the microsoft.

66 comments

And here I am having used it for a decade and perfectly happy. I try other ones like Owncloud every once in a while and find them lacking. It was slow once upon a time but if you changed to postgres and used redis, it improved immensely. Today it's quite fast and the sync has been working great for a long time.
Use docker-compose with the AIO and it'll be a lot easier to manage. There's example compose files in the github repo.
- Yeah, I can see how someone that has "grown up with it" could be happy. But as and experienced sysadmin coming at it for the first time - the documentation is a bit lacking.
  
  Well, when I moved to the AIO, the documentation was plain wrong on several points. I submitted a bunch of changes that I had to do to make it work and they worked those changes in for the most part. Now it seems pretty workable, as a friend of mine used it to set his instance up and said it seemed to go fairly smoothly.

Agreed, Nextcloud has gone from a lean little personal cloud to a hulking enterprise hub.
If you're after something that'll just sync your files between devices, try Syncthing. If you need files available online, maybe something like filestash or, like somebody else suggested, SFTPgo.
There are also tiny, lean calendar and contact server apps out there if you decide you need those. After self hosting NC for years I'm really happy spreading out the tasks over dedicated services rather than having all my eggs in one basket.
- I replaced Nextcloud with syncthing (files) & radicale (calendar, contacts & todos)
  No-one used the calendar on NC, they just used their phones, Outlook, etc
  No-one used the photo gallery on NC - that's now Immich ... again, with syncthing.
  During the early days, just doing an update would break things.
  For a small home setup, NC is too big, too clunky and just not the right tool.
- I love syncthing!! I have one VM with only debian an syncthing and that machine is backed-up frequently. All others PC's and vm's syncthing to that one machine.
  All of them sync ~/downloads
  All machines I use for coding also sync ~/code
  My desktop machines sync ~/documents.
  And so on. Works great (for me)
- the base install is still pretty lean, its only hulking if you enable all their new junk, but if you don't enable all that, the default, at least when installed it was quite lean.

i am hoping for opencloud / ocis, a go rewrite of owncloud
- I am waiting for opencloud to finish its calendar implementation. The only thing I have reservations about is the fact it doesn't use a database to store file info. Not sure I trust their approach

Nextcloud it just too heavy I totally agree, and everything feels slow and sluggish.
For just files I use Syncthing and couldn't be happier, it just works in the background without a central server just syncs the files between phones, PCs and laptops by itself. I set it up like 5 years ago when I had enough of Nextcloud and to be honest most of the time I forget that I have it, but I use it every day to sync my password database for KeePassXC, my music, my private and work documents between all my devices.

Alternatives? https://filebrowser.org/

Use docker or podman compose https://hub.docker.com/_/nextcloud/
Nextcloud does not need a domain. Ip is fine.
- Does it need to be an external IP? I was going to look into setting it up soon but if that's the case I think I'll just stick with SMB shares or maybe try syncthing
  
  No
  No internal domain could connect to anything if it wasn't resolved for an ip.
  Local IPv4 work. Global ipv4 work. Ipv6 works. Mesh vpn ips work. Any ip works.
  You may have to adjust the config.php (iirc) to add the ip/domain to trusted domains
- Use docker or podman compose https://hub.docker.com/_/nextcloud/
  I could do that - I guess I was just pointing out that someone coming to Nextcloud and following the install instructions does not have a great experience.
  Nextcloud does not need a domain. Ip is fine.
  So, their documentation is wrong?
  https://github.com/nextcloud/all-in-one?tab=readme-ov-file#can-i-use-an-ip-address-for-nextcloud-instead-of-a-domain
  Again - not a great experience for a first time user.
  
  Nextcloud wants you to buy their stuff.
  If you want to selfhost you have to read "everything" and know what you do.
  I have no idea about that all in one setup. But yes, the sentence "nextcloud can not be reached via IP" is wrong

Nextcloud file sync is a convenient centralized solution but it's not designed for performance. Nothing about Nextcloud is designed for performance. It's an "everything and the kitchen sink" multi-user cloud solution. That is nice for a lot of reasons. Nextcloud Sync is essentially a drop-in replacement for Google Drive or OneDrive or Dropbox that multiple people can use and that's awesome. It works the same way as those tools, which is a blessing and a curse.
Nextcloud is for the same role you SAY you want, "All I want is a simple file sync setup like onedrive but without the microsoft." That's what it is. But I don't think it's what you're actually asking for, and it's not supposed to be. It has its role, and it's good at that role. But I don't think you actually want what you say you want, because in the details you're describing something totally different.
If you want performance sync for just files, SyncThing is made for this. It has better conflict resolution. It has better decentralized connectivity, it doesn't need the public IP server. It uses a very different approach to configuration. Its configuration is front-loaded, it takes a fair bit of work to get things talking to each other. It's not suitable for the same things Nextcloud Sync is. But once you have it set up it's rock solid reliable and blazing fast.
Personally I use both SyncThing and NextCloud Sync. I use them for different purposes, in different situations. NextCloud Sync takes care of my Windows documents and pictures, I use it to share photos with my family. I use it to sync one of the factors for my password vault. It works fine for this.
I also use SyncThing for large data sets that require higher performance. I have almost 400 GB of shared program data, (and game data/saved games), some of which I sync with SyncThing to multiple workstations in different parts of the country. It can deal with complex simultaneous usage that sometimes causes conflicts. It supports fine tuning sync strategies and files to ignore using configuration dotfiles. It's a great tool. I couldn't live without it. But I use both. They both have their place.
- I use both as well. They server different purposes. When my wife wants to take a quick scan of a paper document and archive it instantly, or have pictures auto-upload, or open and edit a document we worked on a year ago, all on her IPhone, the Nextcloud client works great and really has no competition in the iOS world. When I want to keep the files in my home directory, including some big, regularly changing files, instantly synced between computers and hosted VMs, Syncthing is amazing. I also add Syncthing shares as an external source in Nextcloud, so I can open those files via the web. As others have said, Nextcloud works fine, provided you don't start installing all sorts of "apps" you don't need -stick to the basics.

I'm in the process of (very slowly) migrating my household from Windows to Linux and am currently testing Nextcloud as a replacement for OneDrive. In my case, I set it up using pikapods.com because I want offsite storage. The server part of the setup was incredibly easy because the host did all the work.
Getting my Linux client setup was kind of a pain (especially compared to the Android and Windows clients), but everything seems to work ok so far. Of course, I'm only backing up a small amount of data so far, so I can't comment on the efficiency or speed for a major backup.

Honestly I hate all these file sharing self hosting things. Looking at you nextcloud owncloud syncthing seafile etc. They all suck. All I want is NFS support in android, that's my only pain point accessing my files from anywhere from my home network. I can already VPN/wireguard into my network from anywhere, but I can't grab an ebook or mp3s off my NFS server from my phone or tablet, I have to have some other dumb infrastructure for it. Just (#@$^* put NFS in android already!!!
/endrant
- I could never figure out NFS ... ( it only works with unix usernames??) But since I have smb servers I can use that with Android
- Yes! There used to be a little utility that could map a SMB share in Android, but that got killed years ago.
  
  MaterialFiles (available on F-Droid) is capable of SMB. Unfortunately encrypted connections are not supported.

My biased opinion is that most people run Nextcloud on an underpowered platform, and/or they install and enable every possible addon. Many also skip some important configurations.
If you run NC on a bit more powerful machine, like a used USFF PC, with a good link to it, the experience is better than e.g. OneDrive.
Another thing is, people say "Nextcloud does too much", but a default installation really doesn't do much more than files. If you add every imaginable app, sure it slows down and gets buggy. Disable everything you don't need, and the experience gets much better. You can disable even the built-in Photos app if you don't need it.
Not saying NC is a speed daemon, but it really is OK. The desktop and mobile clients don't get enough love, that's true.
I'm talking about the "bare metal" installation or the community Apache/FPM container images. AIO seems to be a hot mess, and does just about everything a container shouldn't be doing, but that's just my opinion.
- Agreed. You also have to make sure you get everything configured correctly. The admin should get some suggestions for set up needed in the settings screen.
  I also had to provision a lot of cpu cores for it. It doesn’t use much while idle, but try to pull a doc or picture, and you’ll see the cpu usage skyrocket.
  And at the end of the day, it’s going to be heavily impacted by your disk speed. If you want superior performance, time to consider data center grade solid state drives.
- Many "self hosters" simply aren't comfortable with the basics and expect things to be just an app you install. A simple two-tier app/db architecture is too complex for them (hence the prevalence of sqllite these days).
  I've run nextcloud for many years and was simply surprised to hear that it's "difficult to manage and slow". My experience has been quite the contrary - it's been easy to keep up to date and has never failed an upgrade or lost data. And it performs "well enough" since I don't use low-cost hardware for servers.
  My only complaint is that I need to run occ from a terminal rather than having a web interface for it. Makes running it in a k8s pod kinda annoying.
  
  To be fair, it is slow on VPS with single core CPU and 2GB RAM. But that's not normal..
  
  one of the main reasons SQLite is gaining in popularity is because people are realizing it has higher performance than separate databases in many usecases. Keeping the communication in-process cuts a lot of overhead (network, memcpys). The fact that you also don't have to go through the trouble of configuring a separate service is just a bonus :-)
- Your opinion is a hard-learned lesson here. I only recently figured that out. The Nextcloud "app store" is just too tempting.

There's a lot of stuff going on here, so let me break down your post for each issue:
You need to understand the difference between a docker run command, and detaching to run a container in the background. Just running it with 'run' keeps it in the foreground.
For the passphrase issue: https://github.com/nextcloud/all-in-one/discussions/1786
Lastly, if you're not familiar with containers, and this is a single purpose machine, you'd be better off just running the bare project on the host. If there's no need for containerization, just skip it.
- You need to understand the difference between a docker run command, and detaching to run a container in the background. Just running it with ‘run’ keeps it in the foreground.
  Yes, I understand this. I was just highlighting that it's not a great experience for a new user to follow the instructions to setup a server and be left with it running in the foreground.
  For the passphrase issue: https://github.com/nextcloud/all-in-one/discussions/1786
  Thanks! This should get me past my current hurdle so I can do some more testing. Again - not a great experience to have to come to a forum to get help to find a passphrase. I'm pretty sure I didn't miss any steps?
  Lastly, if you’re not familiar with containers, and this is a single purpose machine, you’d be better off just running the bare project on the host. If there’s no need for containerization, just skip it.
  I'm familiar with containers, but think they're overused. Stupid little things that are a single Python script (for example) shipping as a Docker image! But, I thought Nextcloud was complex enough to be worthy of a container? This is not a single purpose machine, but I'm an old, retired, sysadmin - I have no problem running a few different servers on the same host.
  Are you referring to the "Archive" Community Project installation method?
  
  No, just clone the project and run it without a container. The docs cover that as well.

Seafile. It's super fast and lightweight. There are some caveats though:
Data is stored in git-like chunks on the server side. There is Seafuse and Sea drive functions that you can leverage to "assemble" the data on server side for backups. I personally use rclone mount, then backup.
Paywall hiding some features. The community edition is free but is missing some features that pro has. Pro edition is free for 3 or less users.
Documentation isn't great. The forum is active so that's helpful, but some of the docs take some time to understand
Chinese owned. As far as I can tell, there is no call home for a self hosted server, so I don't think it's a worry in that case.
All that said, I like it much better than Syncthing for it's selective sync. All files on each client are synced to the server. But unlike Syncthing, it doesn't sync all data with each client. This is vital for me with some devices with small storage drives, so I would t want all files to sync. Yet I can still reach to the server from any client and pull data from any other client. Syncthing has an ignore flag, but that seemed way more trouble to setup than just sticking with Seafile.

Here I am just glad I'm not the only one. lol.

I've never used the AIO image. I've heard it's weird. This is my compose file for the community image:

You can access it on port 8080 and perform the initial setup manually. For the database server address, use the db hostname. You'll have to use a reverse proxy for HTTPS.
You could also try OpenCloud, which is a Go rewrite of ownCloud.
- You could also try OpenCloud, which is a Go rewrite of ownCloud.
  A fork of the internal Owncloud Go rewrite.
  
  Yup:
  ownCloud -> NextCloud
  ownCloud Infinite Scale -> OpenCloud
  I'm testing out OCIS, and will probably switch to OpenCloud.
- I’ve never used the AIO image. I’ve heard it’s weird.
  It does seem to be. So, I find it weird that the "core" documentation leads a new user to installing AIO.
  You could also try OpenCloud, which is a Go rewrite of ownCloud.
  Sounds interesting - thanks.

I went from Seafile to Nextcloud with family file sharing as the primary usage. I'm using the AIO docker installation without issues.
This might not help, but I never experienced the issues you had.
(I moved away from Seafile due to - in my opinion - it dying a slow death with less and less support)

AIO
Yeah, that one is basically a take-it-or-leave-it approach. It's a lot easier to customize when running your own Docker stack. It grew over the years and the team tries to sell it as an all-in-one SharePoint replacement (which it can be), but that also means it turned into an even more convoluted system.
I was looking into alternatives earlier this year, maybe one of them could be a solution for you:
Owncloud infinite scale
opencloud.eu (fork of ocis)
syncthing (very good, depending on what exactly you're looking for)
Pydio Cells
There are others, or servers like WebDAV itself.
- Some notes:
  syncthing - a little complex, and the file format isn't flat files, but they have a FUSE driver you can use if you want "flat" files; it's wicked fast at syncing data
  OCIS/OpenCloud - default file format isn't flat, but there is an experimental POSIX driver to get that flat file layout, in case you prefer that for backups
  Pydio - don't know much about it, but it seems designed for large, clustered deployments
  I'm playing with OCIS/OpenCloud and it seems like a good fit. I'm mostly holding off until I can figure out which to use (leaning toward OpenCloud).

If you want to self host your contacts and calendars and have multiple users, I still don't think there is anything better. I hope Open Cloud gets there eventually, but right now its only the beginning.

Yeah setting it up the way you want is a pain, but I like it mainly for backing up photos from my phone automatically, as well as, syncing podcasts and music between devices since I moved away from Spotify and start using things like AntennaPod and Gramophone
I got 20TB in my server, might as well use it.
- Oh wait, were you looking for alternatives? I guess this also works: https://filebrowser.org/
  Its just web veiw to file server instead of only using things like smb or nfs

There are a number of ways to install nextcloud, and docker is only one of those.
Yes, NC isn't ideal in many ways, but it shouldn't be as painful as you're describing to run it.
- Docker is at least two of those, AIO vs non-AIO image.

I just use SMB shares on my NAS. Why over think it?
- Because an android client is one of my requirements. I can get files from SMB on Android using any number of file managers, but I can't map a SMB share to a filesystem so files are available for an app to use.
- I agree, but having a webui is nicer on android, so I installed https://www.filestash.app/ configured to use samba as backend so permissions and passwords are the same

So, use something else, like Seafile.
- So, use something else
  That's why I'm here - looking for suggestions
  like Seafile.
  I'll have another look - you're not the only person to suggest it. My recollection is that it seemed to be old and not really maintained.
  
  I've been running Seafile for over ten years. They released version 12.0 just last month. I'm really not sure why people have this impression that it's not maintained.
  Seafile updates slowly because it's very much intended as an enterprise product. It has minimal bells and whistles, but the core functionality is reliable and works well. It's more of a BlackBerry than an iPhone.
  In the side by side tests I've seen it syncs a lot faster than Nextcloud. I keep my entire documents, downloads and picture folders synced there across three different machines, nearly 300GB of data in total, and I can wipe my laptop and sync all my files back in under and hour. File transfers basically cap out at network speed, even with large numbers of small files. I've used the desktop client, the drive client and the mobile client and never had any complaints with any of them.
  Sidenote, if you create an account on their site they'll give you a pro license for up to three users, free forever.
  The documentation is a bit of a beast, but worth reading thoroughly. Setup is a little fiddly compared to Nextcloud (that's a major turn off for a lot of people, understandably so). If you have questions message me and I'll try to help. If you go with the free pro license, be sure to enable offline garbage collection, it'll help keep your storage use under control.
  Anyway, I really like it, works well for me. Definitely worth trying out.

Agreed, nextcloud is a beast with lots of whistles, if you don't need them you can have simpler solutions
This my approach here https://wiki.gardiol.org/doku.php?id=selfhost%3Afileserver
And I stated using AList which is a funny piece of software that has great potential. See here https://wiki.gardiol.org/doku.php?id=services%3Aalist

by now i use nextcloud for everything except files. i do use it a lot for e.g. contacts, calendar, etc.
sshfs is simply a godsend for true instant easy multidevice file access

I think you Just need nginx with one module: https://nginx.org/en/docs/http/ngx_http_dav_module.html That is filestorage only. WebDAV client exists for all platforms.
UPD: if you need web client you can use something like https://github.com/mgoltzsche/file-service/

If you only need onedrive replacement. You might want to try seafile.
I like nextcloud tbh even it tries to do everything and not being really good at it. When i set it up the first time. I scoured the internet like you wouldnt believe. Took me couple of days optimizing it.
Now, it runs okay. Has been a few months since it set it up. No complain except a couple of weeks ago android app wont auto upload for some reason, had to logout and login back.
My main use is cloud storage, photos, note, task, contacts and calendar. Works fine on my android, linux and my wife's iphone.

I also had bad luck with nextcloud, so recently I've set up SFTPgo and it works rather well and it's only for files. You can either download and upload the files through the WebUI or you can mount them over the network to your OS.
https://github.com/drakkan/sftpgo

For files I just use WebDAV that's built in to Apache. It's really not fancy, but does all I need.

I agree. Nextcloud is not so great. It does too many things. It's still OK to use it, because it replaces file sharing in the cloud and you can have your own addressbook or contacts without sacrificing privacy in the Google cloud.
Nothing special. It just runs and updates well. It also tells you what you forgot to do.
I thought about using a dedicated addressbook, calendar and file sharing, but I'd need to have some time and at the moment it's just running without headaches.
- If you ever need an alternative take a look at https://github.com/drakkan/sftpgo

I didn't know anything about docker when I set up my NC years ago, so I ran it as a snap on bare metal. Man, it's gotten so much better! It used to really suck. Like, simple file transfers just didn't work half the time, so I'd be retrying the same thing over and over... A few years ago, I literally migrated it from bare metal to a VM, but kept the exact same install. I have so much crap on it now, I think I'll never bother switching it out to docker, just because of the inconvenience. I know the snap version can just run using a local hostname, you just have to set it in trusted domains setting. Might be the same in the docker image?

Nextcloud AIO has an option to skip domain check. the github README hasinstructions. And i love nextcloud because it integrates many features in one, file sharing, office collaboration, chat, rss reader, mailbox, photos, calendar, address-book, etc.
I have two instances running, one public and one completely local. And having a domain is just convenient but not necessary.

Does this help, OP?
https://selfh.st/apps/?tag=File+Management

I would suggest looking at Syncthing. It's not perfect by any stretch, but it works peer to peer, without any kind of central host, ip or domain name requirements. You simply install it on the client machines, and they work out how to talk to each other over any available networks.
Beware changing the casing on your files or directories though, Syncthing was made entirely case sensitive, which does not play nice with Windows.
One very nice feature is that it does have an android client (https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.github.catfriend1.syncthingandroid/), and it supports full background syncing to your local storage on the phone. Great for syncing your photos, but also music. You add some mp3's on your desktop computer, and by the time you've put on your jacket they're on your phone ready to listen to without any 'service' getting in your way.
A more advanced tip; Get a VPS somewhere in the cloud with cheap storage, and have Syncthing on it listening on port 443. That will allow syncing in more restrictive corporate settings, which often don't allow connections to port 22000. And it gives you a 'cloud backup' of your important files in one go.

For just files I'd use Syncthing or Resilio (I keep hundreds of gigs synced with ST). Resilio has a feature that's very useful - Selective Sync. This allows you to setup a sync job that syncs the index of files, but doesn't sync the actual files until you select a file(s) to sync on the remote device. I use this to access my media files from anywhere (3TB) which I obviously don't want to try to sync the entire folder to my phone, etc.
But since you effectively are on the same LAN, you can use any file copy tool the respective OS's support.
Though for WAN connections, I prefer tools with some redundancy/resilience, since those connections can be slow or experience drops, and regular copy tools aren't designed to contend with that (in Windows the only tool I can think of off hand is Robocopy, but I think Teracopy will at least show you if a file copy fails).
It really depends on your use-case, what you're trying to solve for.

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