Millions of acres of national forest are targeted for logging under an emergency order from the Trump administration

Everything else aside... What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
- Nothing. The "emergency order" is entirely so he doesn't have to go through Congress to do it.
  
  “I can do anything I want if it’s an emergency!”
  
  Quickly becoming his go to play. It's how he pushed through tariffs and how he was able to auto deport all those people. There's probably more that I'm unaware of but the amount of national emergencies the man has declared so far is kinda crazy
  
  i thought liberal democracies had mechanisms to stop this from happening!
  
  But does this type of EO have legal backing?
- Building "freedom cities" for billionaires, maybe. In his '23 announcement, it specifically stated:
  Freedom Cities will be built on federal land that is undeveloped and not part of any of our country’s magnificent national parks or other natural treasures.
  Which I assume means they'll be built on your parks?
  (for anyone scrolling past like, "wtf are freedom cities" - it's feudalism. The Company Town. Literally lords and serfs type shit. Plenty of good places to read more about it, but here's one to start.)
- Almost like they're fully comforatble with reckless corruption.
  
  They are fully comfortable with reckless profits. Corruption is just the price to pay.
- Profit
  
  I guess domestic demand is high because we certainly can’t export them.
- 'emergency' is a word that means the executive does what they want
- Perhaps to mitigate the repercussions from tariffs on lumber from Canada. We saw a bailout for farmers impacted by his previous tariffs, the administration may actually believe the national forests can save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
- Maybe because the dumb fuck instituted tariffs that makes lumber prohibitively expensive? I don't know. Nothing makes any fucking sense anymore.
- Have to urgently circumvent Congress.
- The MDF furniture must flow
- What the fuck is so urgent about cutting down forests that you need a emergency order to green-light it?
  Replacing timber we previously got from Canada before the screaming from the industries that use lumber that is now tariffed gets too loud.
  I don't know enough about those industries to know if it'll work, though.
  
  I don't think we have the sawmill capacity.
  
  and its the forests timber is not even good quality too.
- probably something to distract the masses, from all the federal cuts, and tariffs from the news,
- gotta find some work to do for the chauvinist american workers

trump.... Ensureing America has no future

What’s the emergency? Climate change isn’t catastrophic enough yet?
- It’s so the US can build more vacant houses.
- While we all ignored our local and county elections, while we ignored our neighborhoods and “avoided conflict” by only attacking other leftists for not being pure enough
  there are plenty of blue states, blue counties, etc. this sure as hell isn't an 'all of us' problem.

Once again, we find out most of the past presidents just obeyed decorum and norms... Did no one consider that a bad-faith president would just say, "uh...'EMERGENCY!' " then he's allowed to bypass Congress and just do whatever the fuck he wants!?
- There are 3 powers here supposed to balance:
  the president
  the houses
  the supreme court
  Guess who scored all of them?
  Incidentally this is the reason the judiciary power in other democracies is self governed (e.g., judges elect their own supreme court) and parties in the judiciary are forbidden
  But… well… here we are 🤷‍♂️
- Afaik congress could stop him, revoking his "emergency tariff powers" and revoking the emergency itself. But they won't. Like Trump, they only seek power.
  
  Yeah, these Republicans are absolute enablers. It's pathetic...
- This needs to be turned against him. Obviously through the courts would be ideal. But at least in terms of the media juxtaposing his emergency declarations with his golfing.
  
  Hey, that's emergency golfing to you, buddy!
  
  Break in and plant trees all over the fairway and turn the green into a pond.
  18 times.
  On all his golf courses.
  
  No, not against just him, against the entire party supporting him.
  
  Also that the emergency has been created by him ergo not really an emergency
- We went over this with bush 2 and decided the answer is basically yes. Otherwise it'd be letting the terrorists win

In 200 years people will ask in disbelief why such old forests were logged down.
- IM ASKING THAT NOW!!
  
  We know why. Because Trump sees no value in anything beyond being right. He is right to tariff Canada, because the Canadians are mean. And he is right to have national parks stripped bare, because Canada is tariffed. It's just flawless logic. /s
- That’s if the planet survives till then, which at the rate things are going no way we make it that long
  
  The planet will be just fine. I'd wager that life will continue, the earth will still be filled with living creatures for a long time to come.
  It just won't include us. Or most of the things we care about.
  
  The planet will survive. Humans may not survive, but I'm no longer so sure that's a bad thing...
- Check out where our forests were at at the end of the 1800’s. 90% of the trees in Michigan were gone. All current forests are new growth and under 150 years old here in Michigan.
- In 200 years, humans will be extinct.
  
  An optimist in our midst
- I don't think we have much of any old growth forests left even before this honestly.
  
  mostly the pacific northwest. where also the giant and coastal redwood is.
- The answer is because patriots aren't willing to defend them by force.
- Please stop spouting this propaganda. We have less than 2 decades of western white civilisation left. Other continents far less. It’s not helpful and it propagates this hopium and drives people to complacency.
  E: your downvotes are as futile as the hopium propaganda. Truth hurts, but sets you free.
  
  People don't seem to be aware that there are estimates that there could be 1.2 BILLION climate refugees by 2050. And it's not like they all just decide to migrate in that year.
  We think things look fascist now? If we do not stomp out fascism immediately, there's going to be mass genocide. If people stop being complacent right now, we could do so much better.
  I don't have my hopes up though.
  
  Damn, that bait is so obvious, a newborn fish just looked at me like I was crazy for thinking it would fall for it.

Fuck, some of that will be last remaining old growth, forever lost
- That includes almost all remaining old growth forests. Almost all of the areas he chose are old growth forests. Here's a map of all remaining old growth forests in the US for comparison.
  
  I think I see some exploitation of fewer forestry service members now too.
  
  how does Alaska have so little old growth forest?
  
  I'm guessing 'old growth' in this map means like 80 year forests or something. I'm extremely skeptical that this much forest was never logged.

Do you know why greece is so barren? Because in antiquity they chopped all the trees for their navy

It's an emergency!! We need lumber for... Things. Quick!
- Shipping it to Gaza to build his casinos, resorts and condos for his Russian buddies. Israel is just about done genociding so the shipments have to start soon.
  
  The Gaza Riviera.
  I wouldn't go anywhere near it. Those luxury condos, resorts, hotels, and casinos that Kushner has been negotiating for since immediately after Oct 7, are going to be prime targets for terrorism for YEARS, and I won't be sorry about it at all.
  The entire region is going to be a heavily militarized zone. That's a fun vacation.

"Emergency orders" designed to protect this country in case we're attacked are being used by presidents to sidestep the constitutional as it regards separation of powers. It's about time this shit came to an end also.
- If everything is an emergency then nothing is our you simply cannot govern.
- I guess America needed a declaration of emergency in domestic timber supply, caused by the declaration of an emergency of having friends as trading partners for timber 🦫...
  
  So many emergencies - we're being attacked on all sides... by industrialists.
- How are Congress and Senate okay with just being made completely redundant? Don't they have at least a modicum of professional pride?
  
  Apparently none whatsoever.
- Thats what they always use emergency powers for, and why theyre always causing emergencies

- When the Ents had reduced a large part of the southern walls to rubbish, and what was left of his people had bolted and deserted him, Saruman fled in a panic. He seems to have been at the gates when we arrived: I expect he came to watch his splendid army march out. When the Ents broke their way in, he left in a hurry. They did not spot him at first. But the night had opened out, and there was a great light of stars, quite enough for Ents to see by, and suddenly Quickbeam gave a cry "The tree-killer, the tree-killer!" Quickbeam is a gentle creature, but he hates Saruman all the more fiercely for that: his people suffered cruelly from orc-axes. He leapt down the path from the inner gate, and he can move like a wind when he is roused. There was a pale figure hurrying away in and out of the shadows of the pillars, and it had nearly reached the stairs to the tower-door. But it was a near thing. Quickbeam was so hot after him, that he was within a step or two of being caught and strangled when he slipped in through the door.

I love that this map still has the Gulf of Mexico.
I hate that this will be done to our national forests. They're a natural treasure and should be protected for so many reasons.

Time for this guy to get taken out....of office.
- I really hope to see him buried soon.
  Under massive voter disapproval polls and impeachment proceedings.
  
  To quote local shitstain Mike Davis, who was SUPER TOTALLY JUST JOKING "I want to drag their dead political bodies through the streets, burn them, and throw them off the wall." Which, you know, same to you buddy.
  It's cool it's OK when he says it.

It’s crazy how republicans are framing cutting down forests as a “good way to prevent arsons”

It was nice to have a planet while it lasted, I guess.
- Don't worry. The planet will be fine. We may not be around, but life will persist.
  
  First of all I'm not even sure about that. Well, I guess the tardigrades will make it. Secondly, that thought still does not fill me with joy.
  
  Even if technically correct, this kind of attitude ~~justifies~~ encourages pricks like Trump to misquote using only the first part, then proceed to more shit like this.
  
  Really tired of this response. It's old. like, 80's old. It was funny at first.
- It’s alright. We made some killer shareholder value. Can’t wait to tell the grandkids that, assuming I live that long.

2024 cost US 500 billion in hurricane costs. and how to you counter that, plant more trees not cut them down. he is the biggest clown in human history

Remember: a can of expanding foam can disable most any vehicle when sprayed in the right places.
- Do chainsaws still snap and maim their wielders when they hit rebar in trees?
  
  They sure do! And they still ruin expensive lumber mill equipment. Just a few trees can make an entire logging job unprofitable and not worth the risk.
  Bonus, it's a felony to spike a tree, so you'd qualify for being president as well!
- A pound of sugar in a gas tank is also an option.
  
  Sugar in a gas tank will only really clog the fuel filter. Sucrose doesn't dissolve in gasoline. Water in the fuel would be more harmful than sugar.
- All these vehicles have fleet keys. No one is worried about someone stealing a logger

Not happy with destroying our society anymore. Now they have to physically destroy our country.
This is what happens when you allow conservatives to have control.
I'd ask Americans to make better decisions going forward, but we all know that isn't happening.
RIP.
- Conservatives, as in, conserving our portfolios and self preservation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking
- Lmao putting a nail in a tree is 'eco-terrorism'
  Fuck this country
  
  Truly we've always been the baddies. It's been a capitalist hellscape from day dot, and that is not an exaggeration.
- Ooh, I was picturing something quite large and chonky. This makes sense!
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey_Wrench_Gang
- Thanks for the tip!

Has anyone actually done the co2 math and the amount of other gases we have to reverse?
It will blow your mind. Dont look up.
Basically everything we have ever consumed for carbonous goods or fuel sources has to be reversed.
- That's because we are a part of nature and we leave footprints like everything else. Change isn't bad, in fact it's a good thing. It's why things evolve. The problem is the velocity of change is too fast for other parts of our ecosystem to keep up. It's like catching a ball. Every little bit counts.

And so all that Roosevelt worked for is sentenced to death.

If a tree falls on him in the forest, would anyone hear him squish? Or care?
- People wood care unfortunately.

Would be a damn shame if the National Forestry service just started spiking all those trees.
- Would be a shame if the millions of people who cherish our national forests, such as outdoors-people, survivalists, veterans and preppers, just decided that they don't want their woods chopped down.
  Sure would be a shame if anything kept happening to that expensive logging equipment over and over.
  
  Just be careful and never cut a hydraulic hose with any of your body parts near the cut. Hydraulic injection injuries look terrible. Similar for large truck tires, those are not like a tiny cybertruck tires, they can blow up and cause injury.

This motherfucker wants to clear cut the boundary waters. All these special areas destroyed because they're not a beach side golf course or some tacky casino.
- Keep his cheeto dust fingers away from BWCA.
- Just 1 more Walmart and America will be perfect

“I think that I now understand what he is up to. He is plotting to become a Power. He Has a Mind of Metal and Wheels; and He Does Not Care For Growing Things.”
“Come, my friends. The Ents are going to war. It is likely that we go to our doom.”
- And then the ents kicked ass. They just fuckin’ showed up basically on a whim, by themselves, and ripped Isengard a new asshole.

do you remember when in minecraft you chopped down a forest for wood and didn't replant it? remember how you had to go to triple the distance to find another one, wasting even more time?
- Not sure they won't be replanted, but a 600 year old redwood looks a bit different than a 5 year old pine tree.

And oil exploration, and real estate development, and golf courses, and casinos, and...

Looks like Tramp called for open season on loggers.
- It's cathartic to imagine, but we all know that even if there are dozens of environmental terrorist activities, that it won't stop this. Wood is money.
  This isn't going to stop. It's going to get worse even. We're not accepting this, we're still sitting with our thumbs up our asses wondering when it gets "bad enough" that someone comes in and saves the day.
  Nobody is coming. Our world is collapsing. If we all realized this and got up and started marching we could at least stop it from getting worse.
  
  Growing up, I watched Star Trek and ST: Next Gen. I always wondered how we could get to a kinder, more tolerant society like theirs. As I learned more about the back story, it turns out that there was a massive nuclear world war in the mid-21st century that did massive damage to the world. The society that Star Trek represents rose from the ashes of that war.
  I always hoped we could reach a tolerant society without going through that, but its starting to look remarkably prescient.

since Canadian lumber has a tariff making it so expensive now they will chop down the US forests for the value of lumber is high
- On another thread, another lemming explained that our logging industry can't even use the trees from national parks because we've specialized all of our mills to specifically sized (and possibly specific kinds of?) trees. The trees from national parks would basically just end up being used for pulp instead of building homes or something.
  
  building homes
  You think anyone in this administration gives a shit about the housing situation!? This is an article about our (We The People) national forests! They're stripping the country for parts. Fuck, when's the next date we all protest and march!?
  
  Yeah American lumber is heavily reliant on forestry since in the long run it's easier, why fuck around building infrastructure and moving equipment when you can just set a couple acres aside and cut them every couple of years. Also I'm pretty sure this also applies to our pulp production so even that would make it a waste of time to go after national forests.
  We may actually entirely side step Trump's stupidity and evilness on this simply because the industry has moved on from clear cutting. Also while there are probably some mills that can process Lumber from the parks they are probably specialized and also have their own designated forests, for example the guys who process Lumber for the USS Constitution.
- oh and the type of trees in the us for logging, isnt very good quality so it ends up more expensive anyways.

Guaranteed way to speed up climate change
- Well it is an Emergency, we gotta hustle

Hypothetically, would literal tree-hugging (i.e. chaining myself to a tree) be an effective method of protest and prevention? Would the loggers cut me down anyways? Just a random thought.
- You're gonna get labeled a terrorist and probably shot
  The way to go is in the monkey wrenching book (forgot the full name:
  You take steel bars, and cut them to size
  Then you remove a piece of bark
  Drill a hole into the tree
  Put the steel rod in
  Glue the bark back on
  Do it at eye level-ish, that way you're not hurting the worker with a snapping chain, instead damaging the lumber mill. Bigger damage anyways
  
  The Monkey Wrench Gang
  
  What do we use when they start checking the trees with metal detectors?
  I don't think cinder blocks would work as well
- There are groups already doing the work. Look them up!
  For example, BARK Out! Is active around Mt Hood in Oregon.
- Depends on what you mean by "effective." It might delay them for a few hours or a day. There's a long history of this kind of thing, although it's usually more effective to do a treesit rather than a lockdown for trees. You could do a lockdown on equipment like bulldozers/feller bunchers though. The Earth First! Direct Action Manual has a lot of info.
  Be prepared to be literally tortured in various ways, including pepperspray placed directly in your eyes, pain compliance holds, or they just cut the chains/lockbox you're in and if you get cut with it too bad.
  Personally I'm not a big fan of get-arrested-on-purpose types of direct action, but it has its uses. I strongly recommend that if you're going to do something like this you connect with a group that knows how to do it and you have a support crew, including jail/legal support.
  
  what a fascinating read!
  
  Is there a such thing as pepper spray resistant eyewear?
- Trees have been saved by people camping in them.
  
  That relies on the loggers fearing a murder charge. In Trump's America, would a logger be charged with murder for "accidentally" killing a tree hugging protestor?
- maybe flying too close to the sun here but don't sacrifice yourself for your beliefs in a way that won't make effective change.
  there are other, more valuable targets if you're willing to spend your life on a cause.
- Just spike the trees.

Does anyone know if this will affect Yellowstone national park? I've always wanted to go there and Imma be extra pissed if he destroys that reserve.
- National Forests and National Parks are different things and are managed by different departments.
  National Parks (like Yellowstone) are managed by the National Parks Service and we're put aside for conservation and public access. They are protected in perpetuity. As much of a shit head Trump is and as terrible as the Republicans are, I don't think they could actually open these up.
  Meanwhile, National Forests are managed by the Department of Agriculture. They were specifically put aside to be public land and to protect the US lumber industry. The rules have been slowly opened up to allow private purchase (for individuals and ranches) and different types of resource gathering (mostly fishing and ore mining, with some oil mining).
  I think a lot of people in this thread are mixing up the two as well. National Forests are specifically used for resource gathering and more resource gathering isn't out of the ordinary for these parks.
  
  Ok I didn't know that, thank you for the education.
- the map shows the northwest will be more concern, all that redwood forests,
  
  I'm worried about the Redwoods too, but for some reason I was thinking Yellowstone was in Washington State, now I feel dumb.
- Yellowstone is due to destroy itself any day now. It is an active supervolcano.
  
  In geologic scale? That is true. In human scale? It is extremely unlikely in thousands of years.
  
  On the other hand. This has been said for decades.
  
  Nuh
  
  Yellowstone is due to destroy itself any day now.
  You are stupid.
  It's okay, I don't mean that as an attack. I mean it as a challenge. Educate yourself and read actual science.

Turning the US into Isengard. Nice
- Why do you think that company is called Palantir lmao. I wish I wasn't joking, but it is this stupid if you poke around a bit at the neoreactionary obsessions with LOTR.
  
  Yeah I hate that company and it's name so much
  
  Wait, the neoreactionaries actually want to be like Isengard and not like, based trad gondor or something like that? I kinda figured it was just called palantir cause they thought it was a cool reference and cause peter thiel is just naturally sinister like that

Oh it looks like the area I hunt is in there. Damnit it was getting nice finally from when it was planted decades ago. Second generation trees are getting good sized.

This is the exact same tactic this regime will use on the 20th of April to declare martial law. I’m really curious how long it took the Germans in the late 1930’s to call it what it was.
This is a coup d’etat. Lots of people will die. The regime - even if DJT dies or gets shot - will go on. There won’t be any more fair elections. I hope these protests go from 5 million to 10 million on Saturday, because only a mass movement can stop this.
- *mass armed movement they don't care if 100 million person manifest if they fear nothing after that and no they don't need a reason for martial law still gonna happen with only peaceful protest
  
  I thought when talking about the USA the arms and violence is implied. Though, historically it is curious how the French with a notorious lack of weapons wreak more havoc than them 2nd amendment folks.
- This is the exact same tactic this regime will use on the 20th of April to declare martial law.
  Just stop with this. You are basing this off astrology, as you pointed out in your other comment. I'm not saying there's no chance it won't happen, but spouting that opinion like it's an informed fact with concrete evidence is ~~dangerously close to~~ misinformation.
  
  Lol, as I just pointed out in my other comment, you’re someone who sees a picture and jumps to conclusions. Don’t brigade and attempt to rob others who want to read the entire linked article.
- Why that date specifically?
  
  90 days since the inauguration and a few other good reasons.
- What's on April 20..?
  
  Scroll down for fun
- I’m really curious how long it took the Germans in the late 1930’s to call it what it was.
  In Germany, by 1934 the regime had publicly admitted murdering hundreds of their opponents without trial.
  And written a law after the fact which simply stated: "The measures taken on June 30, July 1 and 2, 1934 are lawful as state self-defense."
  Germans knew.
  
  I agree. But I’m just wondering if they went to the butcher to get a bit of meat if they were a acknowledging that they were living under a dictatorial regime right now?

I was just in a national park and thinking to myself "damn, this place has too many trees! We should really cut a bunch down to make room for a Wal-Mart."
- National parks? Don’t need them. I’ll get the same experience watching nature footage at an imax.

Teddy Roosevelt is rolling in his grave.

embrace
thought, return to

What do they claim the emergency is?
- We're importing too much of our lumber from a foreign country (Canada), which is a national security risk to the lumber-consuming parts of our economy. I wish I were joking.

Bunch of unpatriotic freeloading trees and animals. About time we have a president that puts them in their place. They’re ripping us off!

Christ - that’s quite the logging order you’ve got there… this is an environmental disaster - just to reduce Canadian imports!?

Guns don't need wood parts anymore. I believe billionaire biomaterials work better? I'd say some testing is on order. We need some billionaires. I believe the bones are probably the sturdiest parts. And their teeth have gold.

The forests aren't healthy... And some could indeed use proper thinning out. They've been stopped from burning naturally and remain uncut causing many tiny scrawny trees rather than large healthy forests. This makes wildfires that get out of hand that much more intense. The forests are full of perfect fire fuel. So proper thinning would be excellent in fact.
Obviously that's not what trump is gonna do tho. No need to thin if you just clear cut.
- Yeah cuss my money is on that the admin will also just straight cut though, not preserving new growth
- Yeah, you need to cut or burn the new growth; it's those old, huge trees that people want to cut down that survive the fires and re-seed the forest afterward.
  
  Ya exactly... I only point out that the emergency order cites Forest health which is laughable. It is important but this order does shit to address it of course. Just one more thing they can point to and pretend to be doing something good. No one wants the twiggy brushy lumber that needs to be cleared away after decades of mismanagement.

- Not gonna work. They're living beings like you, that sort of thing causes infections, by the time that a blade would hit something like that, it would likely kill the tree regardless.
  
  That's not accurate
  
  Have you ever built a treehouse?
- Trees with rebar in them are cut all the time. Loggers are trained to examine the trees for signs before cutting into it - your rebar will leave visible scars for years, and the logger will see those signs and cut in a different area to avoid it.
  I am a trained logger - I volunteer with a local youth camp clearing dead trees.

Trees are woke

this includes the one I live in the middle of. swear to God I'm gonna [redacted]
- Same. Seeing all that blue over Utah boils my fucking blood.
  
  But think of all the alfalfa fields that would free up room for!

How can conservatives be okay with that? What's even the need?
- Conservative stopped being about conservation before they were ever related. Some conservatives of yesteryear were conservationists, but most were merely at the smallest, most local of levels.
- They want to conserve ~~the forest~~ their profits