This will definitely get me on a watchlist

I struggle every day with the thought that the corporate noose tightening around all of our necks will not be solved unless we as a society begin to provide some real ... 'mortal incentive' to the oligarchs of the world. No way I could ever do it myself, but I understand the need for it now more than ever.
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Normally I'm a solutions guy. I shouldn't be coming up with this as a solution for the issues of the world right now, but it's gotten so egregious that the systems we've put in place FOR THE PEOPLE are not working for the people any longer.
- Threat of force is a solution.
  It's basically what the police exist to do - behave the way we want, or we'll send someone with a gun to take your money, property, freedom, or life.
  
  All authority is derived from the monopolization of violence.
- the systems we’ve put in place FOR THE PEOPLE
  lol, no (or to be more accurate - which people?)
  https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/22/american-democracy-was-never-designed-to-be-democratic
  https://libcom.org/article/capitalist-democracy-illusion-choice
  
  Yes. Why else would you let women vote? /s
- It's not like they're giving us much choice
- In a world with private armies, how do you want to threaten oligarchs?
  Stop struggling, start supporting a platform in your favorite party that makes the necessary changes.
  
  Voting is snake oil that keeps a disenfranchised nation from resorting to violence. You're mad now, so vote for this person who will change things in 30-40 years...maybe...if you're lucky...if the system lets them...oh sorry we couldn't do it...maybe you should vote more...
  When these people are holding the American populace under water, we don't have the time to wait to file a petition of grievances.
  Violence gets things done that voting won't. Nothing in American politics has changed without it.
  
  Same way you deal with commanders in chief of real armies - just ask JFK... or any of these guys for that matter.
  Asymmetrical class warfare - particularly when you have the benefit of overwhelming numerical superiority while being dispersed through the broad population is devastatingly effective. There's a reason the best funded military in the world is consistently drawn into quagmires with villagers brandishing soviet-era small arms and improvised explosives.
  
  There isn’t a party leader that is interested in making any real changes that don’t happen within their term. They’re not motivated to be the best person for the world as a whole and really they’re motivated by the short term and re-election.

Blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure is a moronic idea that'll create an environmental disaster worse than the infrastructure existing. Instead, sabotage it so that it stops flowing.
- Good point, way less environmental damage to do something about the execs and billionaires in this world
- Right?! All the dumbfucks talking about blowing up pipelines want to trade one environmental disaster for another. Its pathetically misguided.

How about a foreign fossil fuel infrastructure first?
-Your friendly neighborhood CIA agent
/s
- Hey got any fun terror plans I can hop in on? Just text me the address and I'm there.
  -Your friendly neighborhood FBI informant.
- Oh wait, we already did that last year
  -Your friendly neighborhood CIA agent

Are you morally obligated or are you ethically obligated? Or is it both?
- I'm just here to blow shit up tbh
- Are you morally obligated or are you ethically obligated? Or is it both?
  
  MOBA, not Nuke. Same effect without the radiation.
- difference?
- Ethics refer to a set of rules provided by an external source. I think this is 100% a moral obligation to blow shit up.
- I would say ethics doesn't really make sense unless there is some sort of rulebook calling for this that I'm not aware of. Because I'd say moral-but-not-ethical is doing what's right even if it's against the rules/expectations that apply to you (particularly in a professional capacity, and even then there are different contexts like company policy vs wider ethics).

If you blew up fossil fuel infrastructure, you'd go to jail. The US blew up Nord Stream, nothing happened. We truly live in a society
- It wasn't the US, though.
  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/26/nord-stream-pipeline-blasts-key-details-revealed-by-scientists
  
  A US vassal. Same thing.
  
  Honestly reading that I don't see how you can't conclude that at the very least it was Ukrainians with CIA backing. It was a very sophisticated attack, and yet somehow they did it "without the knowledge of the leadership in Kyiv."
  
  It wasn't the US, though.
  Yes it was. https://archive.ph/jaqOv

There are two wolves inside me
One wants to discuss the moral obligation to commit acts of sabotage against fossil fuels infrastructure that is killing the planet
The other wants to have good opsec and not possibly incriminate myself for future actions I may or may not be involved in by posting
Disclaimer for any feds reading this: I am a clown and everything I do/say/post is hypothetical and/or for comedy only

Blowing it up will not stop them as they'd just rebuild. More pollution in the process.
- they'd just rebuild
  that's why you have to kill the people in charge as well.
- Yeah, I assume there's gotta be a better way. Like clogging it beyond repair (shut off+completely solidified), siphoning operations (assuming a spill isn't caused)... And in either case, converting it into something less bad and/or storing the carbon in a stable manner.
  (Although even rebuilding from what I see may be at least $1M-$2M per mile, they sure have the money but it's not insignificant either)
  
  Run for office(or help someone) and make changes.
- Come on, if the Russians/Americans/Ukrainians can blow up the 1st Nordstrom pipeline, and scare both Germany and Russia from starting the other pipeline, why not? /s
  Jokes aside though, who knows what will happen if someone holds up some oil dock workers at gunpoint and orders them to stop the flow of oil and scatter.
  One can essentially sanction the world en masse, with just a dozen people
  Plus, if that gunman or gunmen can hold the infrastructure as a shield from the resulting police and military, it can used as a negotiation tool with them temporarily, or if things go to shit, they will otherwise just show the ruthlessness and brutality of the state apparatus in using drone strikes etc....
  
  Going after critical national infrastructure like that will get you 5 GTA stars and the national guard on your ass in minutes.
- Find the substation powering a section of pipeline?

As the situation worsens it's only a matter of time before rampant eco-terrorism, if we're not all too busy dying in water wars of course.
- at least we won't be drowning in them

If you start being a nudist then they have too see you naked when they spy on you.
- Shower with your grandpa Morty

Just killing billionaires is probably the best option
- Can we run a Go Fund Me to hire a hitman?
  
  Flash mob might work better.
- Justices that pass down shitty decisions should be pretty high up there too.
  It's easily what has the most direct effect on our political landscape.

I heard they protect the pipelines near places where it's easy to access and they know pretty quickly where the break happened so they can find you. It's quite difficult to actually figure out how to blow up a pipeline and not immediately get arrested.
- There are thousands of miles of pipeline, Im not so sure.
  For all their bluster, did the FBI ever find the guy(s) who shot up the substation in south carolina last year? No it isn't a pipeline, and it was attacked for dumbass rightoid reasons, but... did they ever find who did it?
  
  Yeah but they're in the boonies. So if you go out there in a Jeep with your buddies and blow a pipeline they know where to look. It's not that it's 100% secure it's that it's secure against a lot of smaller acts of violence.

I've looped around to sadomasochism.
Destroy the world! Kill us all! Burn me more daddy!!! 👐 😩 💦
- Posadist
  
  Posadas was a fucking Trotskyist 😠

Same thoughts, my mind even came up with a good plan. Drones equipped with remote activated termite pots. It melts through steel easily and fossil fuels burn. You can do this from a distance and it uses cheap available materials. I don't have the guts to do it though... So it remains an Idea.
- Thermite pots? Or maybe scary GM termites
  
  thermite, yes
  
  I also read that as termite pots and thought @mangoholic was going to follow that up with a pot of spiders.

If the us and China had a nuclear war the planet might survive.
- We will. Cancer is only a problem if you don't have Moderna's cancer treatment.
  The bigger problem is managing supply chains when China is gone.

Monkey Wrench gang gang

How do I cope? Video games that let me blow up infrastructure.
- I want to play them. Which ones?
  
  https://repack-games.com/cities-skylines-deluxe-edition-free-download-v2/

How do y'all cope with this
Start small, do sabo stuff like tree spiking first which has this outcome, transition to occupying weapons factories (with an org), gain experience before branching out.
- Oooo I like this. I want to take action!

Who gives a fuck if you end up on a list? The only list you should be worried about is Santa's good list and that's not for another two months
- What happens if I end up on Santa's good list? He blows up my goods?
  
  He gives you free ammo, I guess. Perhaps mortars for the 4th of July next year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ministry_for_the_Future
- Exactly what I was just thinking. This exact realization is a significant plot point in the book
- Hooray, more stuff to read!
- I am re-reading this currently! Love KSR, but wow eerily apt with MftF.
- The terrorists in that book are ethical and fair. In reality the types that would actually engage in that behavior would consider collateral damage as part of the “de growth”.
  
  The terrorists in the book are ethical and fair, because B is Mother. Without his black-ops hand guiding those kinds of things, they allude it would be a lot worse than drone swarms and pebble missiles. Transforming blind rageful terrorism into relatively guided eco-sabotage and brinksmanship that pushes through carboncoins and wealth caps.
  I also noted this time around, that Franks talk with the Kali takes place before Mary and B chat about blackbooks stuff. So B was already doing the needful, for a long while.

I imagine dying doing some act of eco terrorism and then imagine my soul going to heaven where I meet Vladimir Lenin who calls me a liberal for doing an adventurism and then writes an entire book about how stupid I am
- I smell a new tagline!

Final Fantasy VII

No watchlists on lemmy post away ;)
- That is a BOLD assumption no three letter agency scrapes data from Lemmy.
  
  Small companies measure their hard drive capacity in Gigabytes/Terrabytes. Large companies measure their hard drive capacities in Petabytes/Heptabytes. The NSA measures their hard drive capacity in acreage.
  
  You're already on every watchlist for a fifth of a third of a quarter of the shit you say online. We're all on watchlists simply for being worried about the climate.

Smash the Petroliarchy!!!

I would, but this bad air quality thanks to our fossil fuel industry has given me pretty bad asthma and other respetory problems resulting in low energy.
Too sleepy.
Y'all blow it up for me tho, ya? Imma take a nap.

In my "First Reformed" era

Easy. Think this, believe this, never do anything about it. Let's see how you grow to handle it.
- and pay attention to your wife!

I watch the Watchmen.
See, by posting this, I'm on the watchlist too. So the watchlist is watching the watchmen watching the watchlist watching the watchmen ad infinitum. If you're asking "watch the fuck?", to explain without using the word watch, I've engaged an infinite mobius surveillance loop.
Side note, by making it to the bottom of this comment, you've all done Dr. Seuss proud.

I generally imagine myself standing on trial with the argument of self defense. While it's what I would argue in a hypothetical criminal trial, the outcome is enough of a deterrent

I highly recommend this excellent film: How to Blow Up a Pipeline
- I wouldn't...reeks of fed infiltrates. Plus no point since it's too far gone, read Breaking Together by Jem Bendell instead.

Does that mean I'm morally obligated to burn that lady's shirt?

This will definitely get me on a watchlist
r/persecutionfetish
- You don't think so? I never say crazy things on the Internet even in jest because I think the FBI will put me on a terror watch list. You know there's 100% got to be a right wing nut job terror watch list so there's already precedent.
  
  Its less of a 'list' and more of a 'heirachical matrix' that everyone is on.
  
  u think this post or you fit a right wing nut job description? i dont get it
- so socially awkward he deleted already lmaooo

Lol wow, this thread is full of internet tough guy syndrome. Hilariously cringy.

So your solution to fossil fuels causing pollution. Is to cause an ecological disaster? "Let's blow up the pipeline full of oil that is bad for everything it touches. Surely the resulting oil spill won't be bad for everything covered".
- You can deconstruct a pipeline while keeping environmental contamination to a minimum. There is a fairly well-known book out there that tells you exactly how as well.
  You're also not understanding what is at stake here. You could do better to weigh the scale of what is coming down the pipe at us vs localized oil spills.
  It's a moral obligation to engage in civil disobedience and direct action. Especially if you live in a country like mine where protesting now carries the risk of a $$,$$$ fine.
  
  I understand perfectly what's at stake. How ever I also understand that the average USA resident is... how do I put this..... fucking stupid? Like sure there is a book on how to do it right. But some idiot is just going make a sodium bomb because that's easy. And that's the issue I feel like no one else sees. Tha average American is stupid and situationally unaware of anything. It's a moral obligation IF you can do it without additional harm. To be frank I doubt my fellow Americans to be able to do it properly. Civil disobedience is a great thing but there is a significant gap between Civil disobedience and domestic ecoterrorism
  To be completely transparent I am writing this off a bottle of wine. So either this is complete lunacy, or my true thoughts, And I can't see which.

I wonder how many of these sabotage memes are started by foreign governments
- If the point is a good one, why should we care where it comes from? I don't see you disagreeing with the premise - only making blind assumptions about the source.
  
  Of course I disagree with the message, damaging infrastructure isn't going make them replace it with green alternatives it's going to suck resources from everything else and cause huge extra energy use which translates directly into ecological damage - adding to whatever was caused by the initial spills and fires related to the sabotage.
  If you're going to try and convince people to throw their life away attacking oil and gas facilities then why not convince them to throw it away learning about and advocating for better alternatives? The hard truth is we can burn and explode our way out of the current problems no matter how much we want to.

It would be more productive to ask your congressperson to support a carbon fee and dividend, so that carbon emitters return money to the citizens instead of wasting it on repairs:
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/get-loud-take-action/energy-innovation-act/
- Congress will not be doing this, so arguably the most effective method is something that's actually achievable