Putin Rejects Immediate Cease-Fire in Ukraine

The US made a proposal, Russia is making a counter-proposal. This is how negotiations are conducted. Westerners seem to think that the way it works is US and Ukraine negotiate something between themselves and just go and present that to Russia to accept. That's now how it works, that is just the same side talking to itself.

I'm simplifying here because this is the way we should be talking about this to liberals.

Of course you are right on what the subtext here was. What is actually happening is that Russia is simply playing the same game it always does: Putin being extremely diplomatic and careful not to look like he's closing any doors, meanwhile his staff, Lavrov and so on, telling it bluntly like it is, laying out what Russia's position is, what it will accept and what it won't.

The western media can spin it however they like but for the rest of the world this will look like Russia being reasonable and open to proposals, while also being realistic. Putin managed to deftly avoid the PR trap the Americans set here. And it's not like it was hard to see that this is what was coming. Putin was never just going to say flat out "no", but he also wasn't going to let himself be trapped by such an obvious, noobish ploy.

This was noob shit from the Trump team. Even Biden's people would have done a better job laying a trap. I don't know how they thought this would work. If there is anything Russia knows it's how to maneuver diplomatically.

I expect Trump will try and get concessions on at least one of those from Putin and I would not be surprised if Putin ultimately agrees on something in exchange for US support in doing regime change in Ukraine so Russia doesn't have to push its military force all the way to the far west of the country and try and deal with dismantling the whole thing itself. No NATO is too important to give up. No NATO peacekeepers the same (at least in any meaningful number). That leaves the options of Trump demanding and getting something like denazification not being completed though they are demilitarized in exchange Russia gets the 4 Donbass regions and Crimea recognized and the rest of Ukraine becomes a rump state of extremely angry nationalists possibly under patrol by a UN mandate peacekeeping force instead of NATO which the west will spin as them stopping Russia from taking all of Ukraine.

I admit it's possible that Russia gets all its objectives but I have the feeling Putin would rather not fight Ukraine fall of Berlin style where the west supplies them to fight to the last Ukrainian and keeps the sanctions on and in order to get sanctions relief and international recognition for the territorial reality I expect Putin will be flexible in some way to allow the west some amount of cope-laden face-saving. Ukraine is going to get fucked over hard by western capitalists of course and I expect that any deal will include respecting their grabs of resources and possibly striking discount deals on minerals and such from the new Russian regions under decade+ contracts at very favorable terms for the west or something like that.

then the Ukrainians and Europeans can’t back out without being seen as the unreasonable ones

seen by whom as the unreasonable ones? isn't this exactly what they already did several times with Minsk?