Why can't we go back to small phones?
Why can't we go back to small phones?
www.spacebar.news
Why can't we go back to small phones?
373 comments
-
I want a repairable phone. A phone where I can replace the battery
-
And screen. And buttons.
I also want something that's supported more than 3 years so there's a point to repairing it. Ideally, support should come from the community so it can be infinite as long as someone is willing to do the work.
-
Based on https://postmarketos.org/install/ the Nokia N900 can run the latest stable release of PostmarketOS.
Nokia N900 was a proper Linux-powered phone released in November 2009.
So yeah, it's been getting over 15 years of community support so far.
Edit: Fixed typo
-
What's wrong with Fairphone then? Think I'm gonna buy FP 6 when it arrives
-
-
Hum... So Fairphone ?
-
I'm curious, how repairable? Like comfortable with a solder iron or slots and what not like a PC?
Repairable phones would be great but the demand for them hasn't undone the cost of design for them. There's a lot of tech in an incredibly small package, so repairable phone would still require people to have specialty equipment to repair.
Like very few people own an oven for working with BGA chips. And if we go with socket based chips, the thickness of the phone has to increase or the battery has to decrease.
Don't get me wrong, I think an open and repairable phone would be great. But having one is an engineering challenge that most phone makers have opted to just skip putting dollars into because the demand for one doesn't justify the cost. Your average buyer is just chasing shiny and doesn't see repairing their dinosaur as valuable.
But yeah, I'm sure there's plenty here that would love such a device. Sadly we are not the majority.
-
Imo I don't think the goal is/should be "every part is repairable by any average person without tools" tbh. Like that would be awesome but it also isn't realistic, like you said phones are super complicated. But making simple repairs – stuff like swapping a battery – possible for anybody is realistic imo, and then the rest should be as easy to repair as possible for local shops or someone who does have the necessary skills and equipment. At least personally I feel like that's a good spot to aim for.
-
Replacing SMT components would fall outside of repairability for 99.99999% of people. More realistically things like ports, screens, and batteries should be replaceable since they're typically connected to the main board with cables. Furthermore ICs going back on a phone is probably extremely rare while the above mentioned items are very common failure points.
-
It's sad that people have gotten used to just throwing away stuff instead of repairing it. Sure, some repairs really aren't worth it - like the screen I'd gotten replaced of my LG G3 that was prone to have this defect with its screen regardless of screen swaps and whatnot - but most of the time, it's just minor things that can actually be fixed by non-tech savvy person.
I think it should be of paramount importance that more companies are held accountable as to the amount of waste they're producing and how much they're contributing to pollution and waste around the globe. Unfortunately, capitalism is a thing, so that's not gonna happen.
Having repairable options for those that do care is awesome, though. If I could afford, I'd gladly go for a Fairphone if I ever need to replace my current phone (still going strong after 5 years of use). Until their mass appeal, they'll likely remain out of my pockets.
-
Bga is more about skill than equipment. I’ve done it with a cheap hot air gun and a toaster oven. Though it took many failed attempts to get right
But this isn’t always about your phone being repairable by you. It’s about your phone being repairable at all. Apple, google, samsung, et al have made it clear that they have no interest in refurbishing and repairing phones. That’s fine, they have the right to do whatever I guess. And further, this creates a great opportunity for many people to create small businesses.
America has very few markets left wherein one can create a business that is not utterly dominated by some conglomerate that will eat your shit. This is one where you can do so, with honest work (eg not just buying shit from Chinese manufacturers and reselling it on amazon for a profit).
However, the tech industry is openly hostile to small business and its consumers, so every business that has worked in this sector has been either destroyed or hollowed out to barely anything by big techs greedy bullshit in the name of security.
This would enrich communities: you would have another possible route where someone local could open a business within the community, that would hire locally within the community. But apple, samsung, microsoft, etc lobby extremely hard to make sure that they never have to stop pairing parts, providing spare parts, providing schematics, etc. and of course they’re not being asked to do this for free. They’re being asked to do this for a fair and reasonable cost, but they still refuse.
Now designing phones with user replaceable wear items like batteries or even common failure points like screens is obviously a good idea as well in theory but comes with challenges. However the challenges are mixed. Batteries can be user replaceable in thin and waterproof phones. The galaxy s5 is almost as thin and almost as waterproof as the s23 and has a user replaceable battery. If more engineering effort was put forth I’m sure it could be greatly improved. The issue is design; they (especially apple) don’t want to disrupt their “beautiful”glass back phones that 99.9999% of people slap a case on. User replaceable screens are more challenging to make waterproof but I’m sure they could figure it out.
But if the above was addressed, they wouldn’t necessarily have to. We could go back to the days of going to a small store next to your grocery store and getting your phone screen changed out for $150 while you do your shopping. except much more money because an iphone 16 pro max oled is ~ $700 just for the screen, which brings up the other issue of people don’t want to repair stuff anymore because component cost is outrageous. The phone is $1200 for the base model so if the screen and labor is $800 a lot of people will (foolishly) go “well for $400 more I can just get a brand new one!” even though it’s the same damn phone. However, these screen prices fall dramatically when the phones get even a few gens older and a bunch get recycled
-
-
HMD (Nokia) Skyline has a cool feature where you unscrew 1 screw and can change various things like battery. Unfortunately phone itself is not impressive especially from OS update standpoint (only 2 year support for major Android versions). I would love to see this idea being copied by other manufacturers.
-
Unfortunately phone itself is not impressive especially from OS update standpoint
I swear to god manufacturers do this on purpose so that they can point to the low volume of sales and claim "See! People don't really want these features" when in reality they've just slapped a couple good features onto a completely dog shit device.
-
-
Fairphone
-
replace the battery
Besides the obvious Fairphone, theres a Samsung Galaxy XCover series, which acoording to many users on Reddit, the specs are not great for its price. The latest XCover 6 Pro is like $599 USD at release.
-
I bought a refurbished Xcover 6p and so far it's great. There's also the perks of being intended for companies: very long software support and pogo pin charging accessoires.
-
-
Whoever owns the Nokia badge are selling phones designed specifically for repairability by end users; the only issue I have with them is they don't really say much about how long they're going to have software support, so expect it to last 4 to 6 years tops before replacing it becomes required anyway.
-
-
Why can't we go back to small phones?
-
Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I can't go back because they don't sell any small phones.
-
I picked the Pixel 8 because:
- it runs GrapheneOS
- It was a little smaller than the Pixel 8 Pro
If there was a smaller version available, I would've gotten that instead.
-
I picked the Pixel A because:
- It runs GrapheneOS
- It's slightly smaller and slightly cheaper than the normal version
- The back is plastic and not glass
Glad I can use it and type on it one-handed, can't imagine using a bigger phone.
-
I've been using the "A" branch of the Pixel line for years now.
But I use CalyxOS so I guess you and I have to be enemies now. My name is Inigo Montoya, you use a different OS, prepare to die.
-
I can't trust anything made by google. It's a company that literally makes its money capturing everything everyone does on the internet...and yet the phone they make is the ONLY phone immune to having everything captured...
Sorry. Not buying it. There will be a chip in there phoning home we'll find out about in a decade.
-
I picked the Sony Xperia 1v because:
- 71mm width (similar to pixel 8)
- Flagship specs (*for 2023 - Snapdragon 8 gen2 / 12gb)
- not Google Samsung or Apple
- little to no bloatware
- Decent cameras
- SD card expandable
- Headphone jack 3.5mm (though I haven't used it yet)
- No glass back (and solid build quality allround)
- LineageOS support (for when vendor support runs out)
- I got a good refurb deal in 2024
I was considering a Zenphone 10 or Xperia 5 v - mainly for size and brand reasons as above - when i found this for £650
-
Is there an 8a? Those are usually the smallest model
-
If the pixel series had a damn SD card slot it would be the perfect phone for me.
I just want to sync all of my music and local backups to an SD card via syncthing dammit. I don't want to have to pay 200€ for them adding a 5€ chip
-
I’m clinging to my SE. It’s the last small phone made by anyone other than Chinese no-names. I will be sad when it’s no longer viable as an option.
-
my Chinese tiny phone has a name, it's the Unihertz Jelly Star. they even have a subreddit, not sure what makes you think it's a "no name" they make a lot of phones for niches in today's world including one with a physical qwerty keyboard.
now the fact that they're the only company filling those niches sucks, but it's better than nobody doing it.
-
There was the iPhone 13 Mini. It’s adorably small. But it didn’t sell well so they stopped making the Mini line.
-
Still using mine too and it's awesome, all my coworkers also notice and compliment it. I do think there is a market for small phones
-
-
I upgraded to a Sony Xperia XZ2 compact last year. It has a 5" screen and decent capabilities, the only down side is it doesn't support 5G. For a phone that's over 5 years old, it's probably the most recent usable phone available which actually fits in my pocket.
Seriously, don't show me a damn tablet computer and try to sell it to me as a mobile phone. If you can't make a compact phone then you're not really advancing the technology, are you?
-
They do, but service providers don't like selling them. There isn't as much of a return on smaller/ dumb/ cheap phones. I used to work at spectrum, and we'd speak of the cheap phones in hushed tones like they were the boogeyman. It felt horrible because I was using my cheap android while selling people iPhone 15s.
-
-
I don’t understand why so many people here keep saying that it’s too hard to make a small phone when all these companies literally make watches with 5G connections…
-
They always lean a little too hard into making the small one the "budget" phone and end up gimping it into something nobody wants, and yet they still don't make it cost attractive.
Compared to the SomePhone Pro, the SomePhone Mini has:
- 6GB of RAM rather than 8. (I mean, okay, what do I need that much RAM for?)
- 128GB onboard storage rather than 512GB (Those chips are the same footprint so that wasn't done for miniaturization, but I don't store a lot on my phone so ok)
- No SD card slot. (I suppose you could argue that IS for miniaturization but it's still a kick in the pants)
- 1080p display rather than 4k. (fine, the PPI is still finer than my eyes)
- 3100mAh battery instead of 3600 (You know the reduced resolution on the display will probably make up for that anyway)
- No NFC (really?)
- No fast charging (fucking sigh)
- No wireless charging (pegwarmer says what?)
- 5.9 inch 9:21 display (so it's 89% the size of the Pro model anyway?)
- a laptop grade VGA camera (you're actively trying to make this product fail, aren't you?)
- Locked bootloader, locked carrier (because of course)
- $899 instead of $949 MSRP (Okay just stop saying words and drown yourself in the septic tank)
-
This is exactly the problem. I don’t need a budget phone, I need a small phone
-
Hell I wish the big phones had SD card slots...
There are very very few phones that have them anymore. Chinese phones, Sony, fairphone, and Samsung midrange, that is about it...
-
The latest pixel pro is available in both the regular size and the XL. In previous models the pro was only available as the XL.
-
Yes they should put HUGE batteries into small phones!!!
/s
-
i don't think it's "too hard" to make small phones. but i bet it's easier to sell bigger phones with more profit margin.
-
Seems like a straw man, because I can't see a single comment claiming that.
-
Who said that? That's not the limiting factor. Also, smartwatches have crappy processors.
Supposedly, what's hard is making a phone with good performance and battery life that's also small.
-
-
I don't want a small phone or a slide out keyboards.
I want :
Replaceable battery.
Non glass back.
3.5 jack.-
3.5 jack is easy, most budget phones have them (along with a MicroSD card slot)
The replaceable battery? That's gonna be hard to find. There the obvious Fairphone, but its very costly for its specs and is only made for EU, and even if someone from the US imports it, the only US carrier allowing it is Tmobile.
Samsung Galaxy XCover series have IP67 Water resistance, headphone jack, and MicroSD card slot, and the replaceable battery, but its specs are not that good for its cost (as reported by various Reddit users).
I wouldn't trust the water resistance tho. One drop into a puddle and the back comes off exposing the internals.
-
The xcovers backs usually stay on when you drop them and the back only really holds the battery in. The internals are protected by another layer of plastic.
As you say the specs do suck though.
-
-
3.5 jack.
They exist, but it'll constrain your phone choices a lot.
I'd just get a USB-C-to-1/8"-TRS adapter. If you want to charge while playing, you can get one with passthrough.
Without passthrough:
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Female-Samsung-Devices/dp/B08Z3B5QL3
or with passthrough:
https://www.amazon.com/ZOOAUX-Headphone-Charging-Earphones-Compatible/dp/B094Z6149B
Can probably just leave the thing plugged into your headphones.
-
Galaxy Xcover series.
-
-
Because most people use their phone as their main, if not only, device, so a bigger screen is more desirable to consume content.
-
By that logic everyone should buy a foldable
-
I would if they were more durable, easier to repair and cheaper...
-
I would, if long term durability is not a concern and the price is not too damn expensive.
Basically if money is no issue.
-
Unfortunately, they haven't figured out a way to get gorilla glass to bend and not shatter so the current plastic screen is way too weak and a fingernail can scratch it. Not good for a $1500+ device.
A $100 Motorola Moto G Play has a 6.5 inch screen. To get a foldable big enough to double the screen area would cost $1400 more. Most people couldn't afford that, so the budget phone is the best price/screensize compromise. The foldable still get more easily scratched than the $100 phone which just makes foldables very bad.
-
-
-
Because every time a manufacturer releases a small phone, nobody buys them.
-
Well yeah, the people who want a small reliable phone are unlikely to replace them every year for no discernible reason. Cue more articles and comments about how there’s no sale data to support the idea that people want small phones! The odds are stacked against us.
-
Plenty of people want small but powerful phones. The iPhone Mini line, for the 12 and 13 generation, offered the same features and processing power as the regular sized iPhone. But they didn't offer as much as the "Pro" model, which came in both normal and "Max" sizes.
So if you wanted the latest and greatest in CPU/GPU, camera sensors/lenses, display tech (not necessarily size), you tended to opt for the phone that just happened to be bigger.
Basically, there's never been a side by side comparison of the latest tech that actually happens to fit within the size of the first 5 generations of iPhone, versus the standard size of a flagship today.
-
-
-
Why can't we have both? I want a bigger phone. Bigger than what I have now, and many people would consider this to be a fairly large phone.
But I don't want to stop people who want smaller phones from having those, too.
-
Right? Everybody has different size hands, my hands are on the larger side and these bigger phones of today are actually pretty comfortable to me
-
I have fairly small hands, but still prefer a larger phone. More content on the screen and space for battery.
HOWEVER, I'd take both. A small phone would be a good secondary device. I want something modern the size of my Samsung Galaxy Ace (GT-S5830i). The back also has a really nice texture.
Oh, yeah, it also has a headphone jack, MicroSD card slot and quickly swappable battery which I should probably replace because it seems it has slightly increased its capacity... volumetric capacity.But I also prefer a bit more thickness so it doesn't feel like a fragile, slippery sheet of glass (rugged phones are good for that).
-
I am a very average-sized woman with average-sized hands, and big phones would have been unusable for me. Seems like they're all for big men's palms.
-
-
You can already get big phones though.
-
They're saying the smartphone market is too homogenous and there should be more options so that people actually have a choice in the device they buy.
-
Yeah, but most cries (including this article) aren't "We want both" but "We want small instead". The article goes out of its way to ridicule "huge" phones.
The battle cry seems to be demanding it their way instead of variety.
-
Not big enough.
-
-
I’d like to see more options out there. But there are reasons it could be difficult. I’ve been a software dev for 25 years and we’ve had take our software from local installs to web services, then mobile web services or responsive interfaces for all screen sizes. Then mobile APPs came along… and we do have to decide which devices and screen sizes we’re going to support. It’s hard to justify spending 20% more time so that you can support 2% more people. And for my app anyway that’s how many tablet users we have. 2%. So we’ve never done tablets, period. If we had to support some phones that were 3x the size of others, that would be kinda hard too, and we’ll always choose to spend the bulk of our time where the bulk of our users are.
Just a real answer. Supporting different screen sizes isn’t free.
-
Yep, got big hands myself and own an S21+, and the keys on the keyboard are still too fucking small. Sick of correcting nytypos after 10 years, so finally not giving a fuck.
Ironically, i typed this entire comment without a typo, gotta love how that works.
Edit: oh wit, found onr. Guess y'all just gotta deal with ut.
-
-
"Why can't we go back to small phones"
Company releases small phone
"No one" buys it
Company stops making small phones
People complaining why there are no small phones
-
@BlueBaggy @corbin as a tiny-handed person, I resent being called "no one"
-
no one bought it because it was shit. companies do this all the time so they can make more expensive things more cheaply, and force people into buying the most expensive.
I want an easily removable battery. As in, I want to be able to have two batteries, one in my phone and another in a charger and I just swap them once a day. I used to be able to do that, and it was normal. Now, the only phones that have that are either extremely garbage or also feature a barcode scanner and cost as much as a "flagship" device.
-
"because it was shit" if you look at the iPhone 13 and iPhone 13 mini they were essentially the same phone just in different sizes, while the sales of the mini stayed in the low 1 diget % the iPhone 13 was around 35-40% of all iPhone sales in it's first year.
I agree with some of the things in your 2nd part it has nothing to do with small phones.
And not to say you said it but it came up in the article a couple times, comparing screen inch sizes to determine if a phone is big or not is flawed > the screen to body ratio increased a lot over the last year's which means that a phone could have the same physical size with a bigger screen.
-
-
Don’t forget that company does fuck all in advertising the small phone at a similar level as the “regular sized” phone
-
I don’t know which small phones have been released recently but I’ve used an iPhone Mini and decided against it. Not because it’s small but rather because it’s not small enough.
See, I do like a big screen more than a small one. That said, the phone is something I carry in my pocket so there’s a balancing act to be done there. What was really great about the original iPhone’s size was not that it had a small screen. It’s that it was small enough that I could reach all corners of the screen with my thumb.
None of the recent small phones I tried had that advantage. In that case, since there’s no clear usability advantage to the smaller model, I’ll take the larger screen instead.
-
-
I do, I bought smallest phone available from known company. But most of those companies just decided you need huge phone that can't fit everywhere, removed sdcard slot, removed headphone jack. Last time I remember nobody asked them to remove those features. I think it is the same enshittification like with everything, they no longer make cheap houses, smaller cheaper cars, actual budget gpus etc, etc. Feels like every company targets top 20% and the rest - gtfo and be damned.
-
Stock market says brrr
-
-
How many times is this going to be regurgitated? The question has been well and truly answered.
We don’t buy them.
-
That, and small phones on the Android side are often nerfed beyond reason, like a bottom-of-the-barrel Mediatek SoC with low RAM and shit storage option instead of the bigger model's Snapdragon and quality storage, or shit cameras, or garbage screen resolution, etc etc.
There is something to be said about the larger variant having more room for better cameras, but outside of that, the nerfing feels almost intentional.
-
Small size means a smaller battery. If they make the phone's processor too powerful, the battery will run out in less than a day, and then everyone will be mad about that. There's also less surface to dissipate heat.
Making things smaller is harder and more expensive, but people who want small phones don't want to pay more than large phones.
-
-
Not to mention: the old people (the ones with money) can't see them.
-
How many times is this going to be regurgitated?
OP is an iPhone user. They're very used to their tiny phones and they love them and simply can't understand why everyone wants a large phone.
-
It's a blind take. If iPhone 16 Pro Max sold less than iPhoneSE, then they would still sell the latter.
But there is no comparison.
-
-
-
Why can't we go back to small phones?
The iPhone SE is dead,
Is there any chance that you chose to lock yourself into a very small walled garden with a vendor who might make decisions about product that you might not agree with?
Apple is the only one making iOS phones, and Apple doesn't seem interested in small devices anymore, so that door is shut.
Right. You stick yourself in that garden, you are gambling that the vendor is going to come out with the product that you want.
There are still a few niche companies working on smaller devices, like Unihertz, but those phones almost always have low-end hardware and limited software support.
Well, size is kind of a constraint on what hardware you can put in the thing.
If what you mean by "limited software support" is "apps are going to be optimized for the bulk of users and will probably feel small if the great bulk of users are using larger screens", well...I mean, yeah.
The iPhone 3 SE you have:
4.7-inch (diagonal) widescreen LCD Multi‑Touch display with IPS technology
1334-by-750-pixel resolution at 326 ppi
Memory 4 GB LPDDR4X RAM
https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2022&nRamMin=8000&fDisplayInchesMax=5.5
Let's grab one from that list:
https://www.gsmarena.com/ulefone_armor_mini_20t_pro-13298.php
Size 4.7 inches, 53.3 cm2 (~63.1% screen-to-body ratio)
Same screen size as your phone.
Resolution 720 x 1600 pixels, 20:9 ratio (~373 ppi density)
30 pixels narrower, but 266 pixels taller than your phone.
8GB RAM
Twice the memory of your phone.
Can buy online in the US:
https://www.amazon.com/Ulefone-Armor-Mini-20T-Pro/dp/B0DJ74TQXT
And it was released October 2024, so it's pretty new.
Now, you may not be able to get an iOS phone that fits your hardware wants, but them's the breaks when you go with a platform that has only a single vendor making hardware for it.
-
RAM is a horrible indication of phone performance imo.
The A15 chip in the iPhone 3 SE absolutely destroys the Dimensity 6300 chip in the 8GB phone you linked
A lot of people had liked iPhone because for the longest time android phones were not able to compete in the cpu/gpu space especially around the time of the iPhone 11.
Although now at the high end android phones are much closer together in performance so it’s more about what features you care about more between the phones.
-
The truth is though that it's not an apple-specific thing. On the android side Asus was the last large phone maker to ship modern small phones, and even they have taken over their zenfone line (small phones line) with a large phone for the ZenFone 11.
Based on reports from companies, it sounds like the market is just not there, at least not big enough to warrant the R&D compared to "regular" phones which make them good money.
-
I agree, it's like the author is saying "why this public-market company I trusted blindly is not doing what I (minority) want?"
-
I think it’s a valid criticism that should be welcomed. You could make this argument for any company when they make a bad decision.
“Oh well you trusted this company blindly so why are you upset and criticizing this design choice you don’t agree with.”
I also am not convinced a criticism is less meaningful if it’s the minority opinion. Many such cases in the world where the minority opinion is proven to be better for the majority.
-
-
“walled garden” - how many 5.4” android phones can you name from the current decade?
-
That phone isn't actually small. It has a small screen, but it's 25mm thick and weighs 300g.
-
And it has a flir camera. Not super useful for the masses, but flippin awesome nonetheless
-
Flip phones with 7 day battery life, including 20 hours of talk time?
-
I assume that the author specifically wants a smartphone.
-
-
-
people spend a third of their lives on those things. And while cumbersome, a big screen simply is better for media consumption
only way I see smaller phones make a comeback is if we change our habits or if a new technology comes along
-
I would rather spend this time on a device with a 15' screen and a comfortable keyboard. A phone is just that - a secondary device. That needs to be comfortable to hold and type on with one hand while the other holds onto the subway railing.
-
A phone is just that - a secondary device
I don't know. more than 60% of Internet traffic comes from mobile devices, and it keeps increasing
-
-
A bigger screen is better for text consumption, too. Perhaps especially for that. If you don’t know why, just wait ;D
Seriously as a person getting on in years I always bump up the font size. And if you do this on a mini phone, you run out of usable space immediately.
I wish there were small phone options, too, but I can see why big is the default.
-
new technology comes along
I believe the RAZR foldables allow you to do almost anything on the front screen, and in the latest iterations the front screen is larger than Samsung's.
-
-
Because apparently people want big phones.
For the last 10-15 years it's been a boiling frog situation really - .1 or .2" increase every generation until 7" somehow becomes the norm (for a phone, not a tablet, mind you).
I wish there were more small hi-end phones too.
-
Here's what I want, roughly in order of priority:
- long term OS support
- repairable
- privacy friendly
- small
I currently have a Pixel 8:
- 7 years software support, maybe more
- 6/10 on ifixit score; not great, but better than many
- supports GrapheneOS
- on the smaller end of "normal" today
A community-supported Linux phone would be awesome, since I'd get 1 and 3 by default and 2 by convention, but they don't meet my minimum needs from a phone: reliable basic feature support. Hopefully we get there by the time my Pixel dies.
-
And notably the pixel 8 is significantly smaller than the 7
-
I'm using a Pixel 5. Replaced the screen and battery recently because there's no modern option for me. My thumb will be able to reach all corners of the screen in one hand operation or I'm just not buying it. I'd probably be better off without a phone anyway.
-
People don't buy them for the price they'll buy bigger phones. That's it. That's the whole story.
They have to make the phone cost $300 less to sell in meaningful numbers. Why do that when they could just not make them at all and sell fewer models at higher prices?
-
exactly, profit margin. people aren't upgrading every year like they used to, so they have to make up (some of) that lost profit by increasing prices.
-
Yes, $300 was for the current flagship back then.
-
-
This author should’ve spent digging into the iPhone 12 / 13 mini, and how it was received in Apple communities a few years ago.
That experiment really showed that the small phone demographic is passionate and vocal, but small (no pun intended). Those phones sold well when the small-phone-fans ran out to buy them, but the sales numbers cooled off quick.
Given that Apple is working on a lightweight 17 “air” phone, my guess is that they learned screen size is too important for too many people, but they’re going to see if they can strike a middle ground with weight / pocket fit.
-
The 12 mini had really poor battery life. I have the normal 12 myself, and even that one has underwhelming battery life, but the mini was way worse. Don't know about 13, but I would hope that recent advances in chip efficiency and battery technology would allow for making small phones with good battery life. Just please make it a little chonkier if you have to.
-
I had my 13 mini for two years, and in that time I never once felt like the battery was on the way out. At worst it would be around 20% when I went to bed.
-
-
-
Consumers just aren’t that interested in a product that’s visibly cheaper and worse than what everyone else is carrying. And that is what a smaller phone signals.
Phones are a status purchase; they all do basically the same things, but most people gravitate towards higher end phones because they offer all the fancy features. Flagship phones are all large, so that’s what you see in the marketing. Just like you’ll never see a car company put its cheapest base model on a car catalog cover.
A smaller phone tends to cut corners; it’s not just smaller, but also functionally worse. While the price might be appealing, the potential customer also knows that using said phone will mean a worse experience, and might even get them ridiculed because they got ‘the cheap one’.
So we can absolutely go back to small phones - we just don’t want to. Smaller, cheaper, worse products just don’t appeal to a status-conscious buyer. If phone manufacturers offered the same specs at different sizes, that might change. But any savvy tech buyer knows a smaller phone is worse than the bigger one.
Back in the pre-smartphone days, size was a thing companies could compete on since customers wanted small, light, distinctive designs in premium materials. Like the Motorola Razr V3. These days, that just doesn’t work.
-
I see what you mean
I will say, when a company tries sometimes they can make small work really well:
There are opportunities to make small desirable. But I know people like their big trucks, I’m sure people like their big phones too.
-
Phones are a status purchase;
Bullshit, at least with the people I know. Literally nobody I know is interested in how much my phone cost me.
-
Consumers just aren’t that interested in a product that’s visibly cheaper and worse than what everyone else is carrying. And that is what a smaller phone signals.
A smaller phone is less comfortable to view things on. Most people are using their phone as their main device. Its not just a "status" thing.
-
Correct, as the article points out. Sites aren’t made with smaller screens in mind, and 62-68 percent of web traffic is made with phones.
Phones are not JUST a status thing, but having a better one is certainly more appealing to consumers, rather than a device that they and others know is purposefully gimped.
-
-
Yes please. I really dislike iOS, but I use the iPhone 13 Mini for work and it's the perfect form factor. I desperately want an Android phone that's the same size, but I'm rocking a Flip which is the best I can do for small form factor right now.
-
The iPhone 13 mini was the perfect size and if Apple would have used that as a base for their new SE instead of the shitty 16e, I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Just give me a thicc 13 mini with a good battery, camera and a new processor.
-
Same, and I've never used an iOS device as a daily driver outside to work. I would literally dump my whole investment in the Android ecosystem over favourable form factor, especially now that Apple is on board with USBC.
I'd buy another 13 Mini, but I'm worried about how long it'll be before planned obsolescence takes over.
-
-
Check out unihertz jelly phones, they are pretty impressive.
-
Thanks for the recommendation! I've checked them out before but found them a bit too bulbous.
-
-
-
Answering single handed on me iPhone 12 mini on latest iOS 😇
It is a great small phone!
-
That was discontinued after two iterations. Was going to switch to ios just for their mini range after years of Android, then saw that they got rid of small phones as well. Like, what would I gain by switching ecosystems if I know that the next phone is still going to be huge?
BTW, I settled for an S24, which is considered "small" now but still way too big, but at least Samsung has a decent one handed mode that doesn't hide half of your screen like ios or stock android but instead decreases the whole screen to bearable sizes:
Still feels like the damn clown mask meme, where, after years of increasing phone sizes, they now add a stupid software feature to virtually decrease screen size to remain usable.
-
I second this.
-
Answering the phone single-handed sounds like it should be possible on even the largest of phones. No problem for me using a Pixel 9 Pro, although it's not a very big phone of course.
-
-
there is one option.
well and a couple others that are also made by Unihertz depending on your needs/wants
more companies making them would be cool but the general consensus I'm reading here is that there are 0 and that is incorrect.
-
I have their old Jelly Pro, awesome tiny phone, replaceable battery, fits easily into any pocket, was my daily driver for a few months, but then again, it's just a bit ... too tiny. Also, battery life sucked, camera quality forget it, speaker not loud enough, low res screen, etc. I'd be curious if they improved on these things with this new version.
Still, one thing is still missing from the specs is 5G support. I mean, 4G is plenty fast, but not very future proof, carriers are starting to shift more towards 5G, 3G is already being phased out, and it's just a matter of time before 4G follows.
-
yeah the screen is very small but that's kinda the point for my use case. I didn't want all the limitations of a dumbphone (i.e. I wanted banking apps, gps, useful browser) but I wanted to add friction to my phone use to encourage me to use it less.
battery life is great, lasts me almost 2 days without a charge and will typically go from almost dead to almost full if I plug it in while driving to work. part of the battery life being so good is that I use it less and keep it in grayscale 99% of the time I figure though.
camera is great, it's 48MP the same as an iPhone 14 Pro. the pictures don't look great on the device because of the tiny screen but when I look at them on my computer or the pixel 6 I still use at home they look great.
speaker is pretty awful, it's fine for calls but music, fuhgeddaboudit! I have a Bluetooth clip on speaker that's great and I don't really watch videos on it so non-issue, for me at least.
screen res hasn't bothered me but again that might just be use-case. most of what I do is reading text and it's fine for that esp with high contrast on, looks ugly but again that's friction and I want that.
-
-
-
Because most people don't buy them?
It's like asking "Man, why don't they make slider phones anymore?" (and I loved my slider phone).
-
There is no option to buy them. That's the point.
-
Zenfone 8 and 9 are valid options, I'm using one rn
-
obviously they did exist. why do you think phone manufacturers would stop making them if they were as profitable as the other sizes?
-
Would you pay $1000 for one? Economy of scales matters...
Plus everyone who did look at them would say it is smaller it should cost less! Even though a smaller phone would be more technically challenging to build. Next you have compromises. No matter what you take out to make it work. People would bitch, I need that! I don't need this other thing! Next battery life, people complain about current battery life, you think they want less?
I could go on, but I can easily see why manufacturers don't want to deal...
-
It used to be the only thing you could buy. Then they started making bigger phones. Now everyone buys those instead. They stopped making them because people stopped buying them, not the other way around.
-
I'm probably gonna annoy people with this but I will shout it from the rooftops
Unihertz makes one.
-
-
That's right. The market has spoken, and unfortunately it has said it doesn't want small phones. Personally, I still do though.
-
I don't think it's the consumer market. It's more expensive to manufacture with physical controls, keyboards, and moving parts. It wasn't lack of consumer demand that killed the phono jack.
-
you could get a Unihertz Jelly Star like me
-
-
As a lover of small phones, unfortunately that's the truth. Apple tried a couple years ago with their iPhone mini and sold very few. Still, there should be enough of us that maybe some smaller phone manufacturers could fill this niche.
And maybr make it fully unlocked and repairable, replaceable battery, etc. while they're at it.
-
Why does it need to the most people buying them. Why can’t it be a minority?
-
Because cell phones are a business. If not enough people buy a format, it dies out.
See: Rotary phones.
-
-
-
I don’t want a small phone, I just want a normal phone that I can use in one of my normal sized hands. I have an iPhone 13 Mini right now and it’s pretty ideal but I know they’ll go end of life one day and there’s nothing to replace it right now.
-
because i want to play the entire gamecube library on my phone goddamnit
-
Hard agree
-
-
You can. Ditch Apple and join us. Plenty of small phone selections here on the other side. Edit: you know what. Android doesn't have that many either.
-
Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo/OnePlus, and Vivo, the top four Android smartphone manufacturers, have not released a single phone with a display 5.5 inches or smaller in the past three years, according to data from GSMArena.
Seems like they’re going away on the Android side too.
-
I used a Jelly pro for two years as a daily driver. Smaller than a credit card
-
-
If they're going to make only bog phones they could at least bring back all the hardware features they've removed over the years.
-
I switched from OP 9 Pro to a Z Fold 6 to get the best of both worlds - a small, TV remote-like phone by default and a square-ish tablet for media and multitasking. Couldn't be happier.
At the same time, I do understand people who thought the width of Samsung's Folds is too small - my first consideration was OnePlus Open anyway, but upon actually holding it in store, I realized that Z Fold 6 is just more comfortable for me to hold closed.
-
I'd never want to pay 2,500 for a phone... tht's just insane
-
I absolutely agree, luckily I got mine used for 870€.
-
These days I never go for flagships. I want 1TB storage and if I choose the 1TB phones, they'd cost $1500. I could get a Samsung A-Series and have the 1TB MicroSD Card slot at around $400 for the phone + a 1TB MicroSD card at around $130, so basically a $530 phone with a 1TB storage, $1000 cheaper than a flagship. I don't play any games anyways these days (too depressed), I don't even need flagship specs.
-
-
I work for a company that repairs these. The Flip and Fold phones have been riddled with issues since day one.
They're literally plastic screens. Over time the crease on the screen where the hinge is will get so deep that Samsung's required "screen protector" will no longer adhere. If you close the phone and the hinge decides to break, you can never open it a full 180 again. If you accidentally open it all the way too fast, you will literally rip the screen off the frame. The weak point is hinge which could lead to a thick black line across, or upper or lower portions malfunctioning. One day you may open the phone and it's unresponsive to touch. Screens randomly fail all the time and either display static or nothing at all.
Samsung knows the failure rates and how they're problematic. Any physical damage on the phone will void your warranty. If it's the tiniest scratch, warranty void. Not kidding. I see Samsung deny them left and right. If you remove the pre-applied screen protector and replace it with your own, warranty void. They literally record how many times they've been dropped. If the count exceeds an acceptable value, warranty void.
In terms of outright failure across all phone brands and models, the flips and folds are #1. Behind that is the A series. But those are cheap so it's expected.
Please purchase insurance for it if you can. It will save you at minimum $400 on a screen repair.
-
These are all good points and indeed I considered them. I'm curious though, how many 6th gen foldables have you had to repair yet? I know their 4rd gen was the most problematic and 5th, 6th got new hinges again.
-
Yea the plastic screens is why I didn't like the "fold"/"flip" phones.
The other reason being that due to them being flagships, they also don't have MicroSD card slots.
-
-
-
When are we finally going to get curved phones on some kind of bracer? They wear them in every futuristic movie, we finally have curved screens, and no one’s made one for wearing on your forearm yet.
-
Because they're fucking stupid.
I can pick up a phone in either hand and type on it using only that hand, and I can play games using both hands at once. If I'm using a bracer, it means I can't do anything else with either hand or use my off hand to interact with it.
The only problem a bracer solves is not having pockets, but even then you still need to wear a bracer.
-
Bracer if unbreakable could be decent to use a gadget for industry applications, I think. Easier to check the screen, without keeping one of your arms off to do so
-
Honestly sounds like a benefit. Could help battle phone addiction.
-
-
More than one company has gotten to the prototype stage. Don't remember any huge companies, but there's video out there. You don't realize how much the form factor sucks until it's real.
-
Maybe they could make a pop out version that would flatten when off the dock. Seems like it would be less wear and tear going from slightly curved to flat than the screens that fold completely.
-
-
Sounds like a big smart watch.
And I'm not sure how useful the Pip-Boy format would be. Now you've got a device that still requires both arms to use, but you can only use one hand...
-
Exactly. I wish at least the smart watches were 2-3x wider to be more useful. Maybe just give us some kind of arm dock that curves the device when attached, and flattens when removed for more hands on stuff.
-
-
Samsung had a smart watch with a curved screen and a 3g modem in 2014 (the original Gear S). I guess it didn’t work out.
-
-
Seriously.
I don't want a tablet in my pocket all day.
I bought my current phone because it was small and the options I had when looking for small phones were extremely limited.
I'm not trying to seriously game on a smartphone. I'm not trying to watch full length movies. It's in my pocket 90% of the time. I want it to be small.
-
Same here. My max is about 5.5'' and 160g. Otherwise I feel it's too hard to carry and handle, or even just hold. I also want to be able to reach the opposing screen corner with my thumb.
-
-
people spend more time on their phones than ever before. its substituted sitting in front of a tv, so i guess people want bigger screens the same way they want bigger tvs.
-
I don't know how you youngsters do it.
One hand eternally glued to this big phone and now they need the other for a soup thermos they suddenly feel the need to drag with them everywhere.
-
Didn’t Apple just come out with one or am I mistaken?
I have an iPhone 15 Pro and a recent Pixel (just because I’m a dev and want to know both ecosystems). I use the iPhone as my daily driver, though, not because it’s necessarily better but because I cannot help myself when it comes to tinkering with Android devices. I have semi-bricked several over the years and then had to install Windows in a VM to run some sketchy-looking factory reset program.
Basically, it’s not an Android problem. It’s a me problem. I’m the one who needs a walled garden so I don’t do science experiments.
-
There were benefits to the comically-large form factor, though. Touch keyboards worked significantly better with larger screens,
No, the tiny soft-keyboard on my old Galaxy Xcover is significantly easier to type than any modern phone. Less movement of the finger, easier targeting of the buttons. I'm always surprised anew, each time i dust it off and play with it.
-
Here's my dilemma:
- Been without cell service since the pandemic (eventually stopped using the smart phone altogether)
- All my digital needs are satisfied, devices and functionality in every room for every purpose I need
- Have multiple forms of solid and satisfactory communication channels (don't need a cell number)
I've thought about buying a model I could jailbreak, but again it's just to use a system that's abusive. "Download our app!", "Use our digital coupons!", "Link your phone number!", "Scan our code!", "Let us track your location for your convenience!".
I'm really a niche subgroup though, I already need other devices while at work that a phone wouldn't suffice for. I kinda see more people going this route though. If your transportation has a computer, then what's the endpoint in carrying a phone? If your job requires digital devices, the phone is basically reduced to a large brick of a communication device. I see more and more equipment being specialized and having added communication aspects for more complicated machinery, cell phones are not going to keep up with it in a general sense.
tldr: cell phones are just a fad with an abusive system that will die out one day and be remembered like rotary phones. They're generally subpar for any specific task and are only a place holder till we figure out better systems.
-
Can we make this its own thread? Cause I'm genuinely interested in this often.
-
I think people don't want specialised tools, they want one tool they can always have with them. We can see the decline of computer use (and literacy) as a consequence of this. Many young people don't use computers much, if at all.
-
IDK, i have Big hands, so using those was a pain for me lmao.
-
I'm just waiting for smart watches to get bigger and bigger and eventually lose the strap.
-
Haha! I was thinking the same. Saw someone post ads for wireless headphone straps, so it's a matter of time before techbros reinvent phones, but worse.
-
I mean that's kinda what the new razr is. I got one because Asus enbiggened their ZenPhone to normal dimensions. And the razr folds in half but it's still as wide as the phablets we pass off as typical.
The battery is still dense and the outer screen is still glass, so the weight distribution isn't great without the extra length for your fingers to share the load. But it's essentially an overgrown watch when it's closed. I rarely open it, so it's not like the external screen is useless.
-
-
There is a feature called single hand mode on most keyboards. Makes it something like this. I do however agree that small phones are nice.
-
My default setting. Big hands =\
-
-
Phones became more frequently used for apps and posting which is a pain on a tiny screen. I built a pi zero powered retro console but actually using the tiny screen of about 3" makes it near impossible to read anything.
I would like to see things return to having replaceable batteries, headphones jacks and maybe slide out keys, but if I have to type and read on the same screen it's awful nice to have some room to work with.
-
If they make the phones smaller they'll have to make the ads smaller too. Can't have that.
-
I held on to my iPhone 4S as long as I could. Now I have a 12 "mini". I know I'm in the minority, though, because I don't spend all day staring at my phone. I do like having all the features, but I use them only occasionally--say, once a week or less. I prefer my internet use on my gaming computer with a big monitor, and a full-size keyboard.
I expect I'll end up with a huge phone for my next one, that I don't need, just to keep access to the functionality. Like everything else in life, there's always compromises to be made.
-
I like big phones (and I can not lie)
-
My brother despises big phones and cannot tell the truth...
-
-
Why is the article using diagonal screen size as their measurement for phone size? In that case you could have a phone the exact same size get “bigger” just because bezel sizes have shrunk over the years.
They specifically call out the iPhone SE as a “small phone” that they seem to want. But the newest iPhone, the iPhone 16 is only 6% bigger in width and height. Fractions of an inch larger. I can totally understand why somebody would want a phone with smaller overall dimensions, but why on earth would your metric for an ideal phone be a smaller screen?
-
Because, for a touch screen, the screen itself IS the user interface. Imagine while holding with one hand, you want to reach your thumb to the opposite corner to hit a button. Even if the body of the phone is the same, a larger screen will need a bigger reach for your thumb. That is primary issue.
-
-
-
Shit battery capacity, bloated OS causing worse battery life, and not enough people actually buying them.
-
Because people don't buy them.
-
Maybe because people aren't given a choice as everything is dictated by the manufacturers.
Slapping 10 year old hardware into a phone with a small screen is a guaranteed way to make people not buy your phone but that doesn't mean people don't want small screens, headphone jacks, replaceable batteries, etc. They just don't want the garbage manufacturers lump in with these great features so that these phones don't cut into their high-margin device sales.
-
When was the last time a small phone that didn't also focus on being budget friendly and feature-limited hit the market? I don't think this argument holds water since the market hasn't been adequately tested. There are plenty of us lurking in dark corners waiting for a small but powerful phone. We are willing to sacrifice some battery life as that is a physical barrier, but there's really no necessity to skimp on anything else. Eventually an option will present itself, but I agree with the article, the Jetstream is not blowing that direction. I don't anticipate such an option will present anytime soon. All pendulums swing back eventually though.
-
I don't think this argument holds water since the market hasn't been adequately tested.
You forget that the entire market used to be comprised of exclusively "small" phones, and we moved away from that.
When was the last time a small phone that didn't also focus on being budget friendly and feature-limited hit the market?
The iPhone 13 Mini and ASUS Zenfone, not so long ago.
-
-
-
Too small, can't phone
-
I think it's a psychological thing.
Like, while thinking about what kind of phone we want - a small phone sounds pretty good. But when it comes time to buy it, we start comparing phones, and we see some small ones, and some slightly bigger ones, and some really big ones. We tend to go bigger than we'd originally intended because of psychological anchoring effects.
The slightly bigger phone is seen as a slightly better phone. "not too big" we think, as we compare it to some monsters; and the key stats such as screen resolution and battery capacity sound slightly better. So we tend to buy that bigger phone even if it isn't what we actually thought we wanted.
[edit] I should say that I'm saying "we" in a totally generic way. I definitely don't do this myself. I've literally only ever owned smartphone in my life, and it isn't particularly big or flashy. I have an anti-phone attitude.
-
I'm not gonna lie, as a 6'4" guy, I can't stand small phones. I understand that I'm an outlier though, and wish there were more options to cater to more people.
-
Because small phones have a small viewing area, which is a pain in the ass to see, especially as you get older. Which is why I prefer foldables. The more screen real-estate I can fit in my pocket, the better.
-
power usage of screens scales as O(n2), but battery scales as O(n3), meaning bigger phones will have better battery life
-
They can just make them a little thicker, but still usable with one hand.
Really, it's not a technical problem, it's a marketing problem (i.e. not enough demand, unfortunately).
-
-
I believe I saw where you hear that people want small phones, they make them, and then they sell poorly. So, to the company at least, it doesn’t look like people want the smaller devices.
Now, I saw some comments in here about the smaller devices usually being less robust than their normal/pro counterparts, and that could also be a major reason small phones don’t sell.
-
They make bad small phones that people don't buy because they're bad, then conclude its because people don't buy small phones.
They make phones like the palm palm, the second phone you have to pair to your other phone, for those days when the big phone is too big. Also the battery didn't even last a day. When it doesn't sell they say its because it was small, not the everything else.
-
-
i have a 6a and i think its about the optimal size. not too small, not too big.
by the way, my first post on here... how is this different to reddit?
-
The instances are structured much like discord, in that you have a separate server for topics/communities. Think of them as servers that can talk to each other. Instead of subreddits you have this.
Regarding Reddit (US company), well, depending on your values and political views, you might see the need and have the desire to not depend on/support the platform.
-
There are still subreddits though, they're just called communities
-
-
-
I don’t see why we don’t already have an iPod size device. I just need something for music and if a phone call happens to come in - great! It was so simple then.
-
I'd like to have no phone at all, I don't like small screens, nor being interrupted. Problem is that phone apps are now almost obligatory for IDs, transport tickets, passes, banking, etc. So I'd just like a phone-receiver (modem) with a sim card on a USB stick that can enable phone-app-stuff via my laptop or tablet. (Yes some tablets have data sim cards, but we still need sms and occasional phone functions for 'verification' etc.). Any suggestions?
-
Bigger screens mean bigger and more obtrusive ads.
I'm convinced this is 90% of the reason right here.
-
I don't think phone makers are that close to ad companies.
It's most likely the same thing as a truck- people say they don't want this insecurity driven monstrosity, but test after test, people buy the bigger one.
Edit: I mis-wrote that, my implication was that the people deciding the phone size spec are going to be doing it off hard data like what customers like to buy and what extra hardware they can fit in. I know Google owns Pixel, but the data point surrounding more ad impressions is extremely weak compared to literally any other data point regarding consumer choices
-
You see ads on your phone?
-
-
I’ll continue to carry my iPhone mini since there isn’t a comparable option
373 comments