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Pete Hahnloser @beehaw.org

‘A spectacle to horrify the world’: what the papers say about Trump and Vance’s meeting with Zelenskyy

I've still not seen the video, and I see no reason to. But it's worth noting that when the media unite around how shitty something is, it might be shitty.

15 comments

  • This seems to be an interesting take on the interaction:

    This was an AMBUSH at The White House

    The mere presence of Vance, the TASS reporter who got expelled at the last moment, the stupid question about not wearing a suit, the comments about discussing stuff "behind closed doors" instead of "in front of the cameras"... they all make the interpretation plausible. It gets compounded by the latest draft of the agreement being nothing like what Trump had been screaming about.

    IMHO, it looks like Trump wanted to reenact his interpretation of the negotiation process in front of the cameras to make himself look great, but Zelensky didn't want to take part in the charade.

  • OK, I've now seen the video. And what the actual fuck? "You don't have the cards" coming from a guy who bankrupts casinos is ... I mean, I don't have words. This was an utter disgrace and not any show of power. It was a dressing-down of someone trying to protect his country.

    This is a fucking embarrassment. This is a man of dim intellect trying to tell a foreign head of state why he should just cede authority to a larger power without considering that maybe Ukraine doesn't want to be part of a reconstituted Soviet Union.

    • It's a mob shakedown by an incompetent, myopic, known to be liar and his minion. Repeating yourself, raising your voice, and latching onto half-ideas to push your brand -- "intimidating" and bluffing to force the deal only works if you had any respect in the first place.

      Also, it feels like Vance's PR team told him he's being overshadowed by Trump in the media so he should make a big show to boost his ratings. Absolute clowns.

    • I think it's more nuanced than that but it's difficult to have a nuanced conversation because everyone is so absolutist in their stance. Ukraine wants to be negotiating from a position of having the US military in it's pocket and demands defeat of Russia. That was never going to happen even under Biden. It's easy to punt all that bluster to the endgame... until the endgame arrives. And that's where we are.

      This is the raw reality of this war and frankly Zelenskyy has been overplaying his hand. Ukraine can either negotiate or continue fighting and Zelenskyy keeps choosing fighting. Anyone suggesting Ukraine is actually trying to negotiate at this point seems pretty far off from reality.

      I don't think Trump's revisionist history helps at all but I do think this reality check does help. Nothing is getting through Zelenskyy's thick skull.

      We can keep dumping old US weapons onto Ukraine hands (which is all we are willing to do) but that doesn't end this war. It just shovels money at our defence contractors.

      Anything beyond will involve direct US and Russia hostility (which would actually be WW3).

      Stylistically I really do lothe the Trump, Vance, Rubio showdown that happened, but at the same time it also feels like one of the most honest things to happen. We cannot help Zelenskyy until he accepts that Russia will not be defeated.

      • Zelenskyy knows damn well he can't trust Russia to uphold their side of the bargain. Taking this deal would only grant them a short reprieve while Russia recovers their strength and comes back to finish the job. Ukraine is in a terrible position(and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia ended forcing them to reinstall Viktor Yanukovych), but, as long as Ukraine has the will to fight, they should do what they feel is best. If they choose to fight a losing war to make it as painful as possible for the Russians rather than sign a "peace" negotiated by two hostile powers in which Ukraine was not even consulted, that is their right.

        Trump and Vance are a fucking disgrace. They were trying to discredit Zelenskyy in the eyes of Ukraine and the world. It's important to remember that this is one of the least ambiguous conflicts in recent years. Russia literally declared a war of conquest using one of the flimsiest casus bellis ever. And here comes this asshole Trump, who is like "maybe we should try to do that might makes right stuff". Now Canada, Mexico, and Greenland are getting threatened with invasion and forcible annexation. That's why Ukraine must be supported if they choose to continue fighting; not only are they the unambiguous victim in the conflict, but the more painful things get for Russia, the less likely they will be able to wage further wars in the short term, and maybe it might make belligerent countries think twice about stealing land and subjugating people they have no right to.

      • If you cannot be fucked to spell his name correctly, why should anyone listen to the rest of your bluster into the wind?

      • Do not protect Nazis. I'm removing your comment, regardless of how well-reasoned you believe it to be. It's not.

        ETA: Shit, this is not my community and I can take no action. I expect the admins to address this shortly after reporting it. Don't do this on Beehaw.

  • Petty revenge from a petty little man. Zelenski came out in support for Biden before the election and now is paying for it after.

15 comments