Why is it considered sexist to ask women to smile?
Just about everyone looks better when they smile. It’s true regardless of gender. I don’t see where sexism enters the equation.
I feel pretty oblivious. What am I missing?
Because men are "allowed" to look however they want, grouchy, happy or 'keep the fuck away from me'. If a women does it she's got "resting bitch face" or gets told to smile. It's just a subtle way of saying "you don't look right here let me change you". If you kept saying it to guys they'd tell you to fuck off.
"you don't look right here let me change you"
That’s pretty fucking rude. I am continually amazed by how much women are expected to tolerate.
Yes, it is rude.
Tell us a story of the last time you witnessed someone telling a man to smile because he would look so much better if he did.
I can't, either. That's why.
Nobody asked Luigi to smile, he just did..
Gigachad Sigma Grindset 😎
I agree with the sentiment, but I, a man, actually have customers tell me to smile more weirdly often working retail.
Good point.
People have told me, it's how I've seen friends and family go trough dating profiles, and weirdly enough I once saw a researcher use a lot of tech and data just to conclude the journalist should smile more
I'm enjoying being told about these counterexamples, as I'm seeing even more clearly how this attitude is embedded in our shared culture.
So far, all the specific contexts people have mentioned to me in which men are being told to smile is one in which others feel entitled to the man attempting to impress them. In contexts such as dating or performing on video or working in retail, this doesn't particularly surprise me.
I suppose another reasonable context is one in which the people asking you to smile are genuinely worried about your emotional state and want you to seem happier. By chance is it typically like that for you? (Let's set aside for now the complex matter of whether they actually want you to feel better or they merely want to control your behavior or feel less uncomfortable themselves.)
Well people have frequently mistaken me for a woman most of my life and thats happened to me a few times. Its intrusive and irritating to be told I should look a certain way, especially by a stranger and I would consider it rude to say to anyone unsolicited.
Thats not to say its not worse for women having to deal with the objectification layer, too.
I can tell you 100 stories of telling a man to eat more so that they wouldn't be so skinny.
It's sexist because you wouldn't risk asking a man to smile. It's disrespectful because you don't get to control another person's facial expressions. It's intrusive because you disrupt another person's thoughts with your selfishness. You aren't the centre of the world. Other people get to have their own feelings and since women are people that includes them.
This is the best answer I’ve seen so far. Thank you!
This is correct. The rule is, 'anything you say to a woman must apply equally to a man', if not, don't say it. Try saying "hey, nice tits dude" and see how that works out.
It's a risk telling a man to smile?
Oh yeah.
Honestly, it's risky with women too, just not as risky.
I know women that will pull a knife on you for giving them an order like that. And I know a shit ton of men that will go straight to punching that kind of fool in the face. Women aren't as likely to get violent, but when they do, they don't fuck around because it's usually men saying that kind of condescending shit.
But, yeah, I've seen fights started over even less rude things. Some guys, you don't give an order to, period, no matter how nice you do it, or how you intend it.
Tbh, I'm not going to respond well to it, though I'll give a person the chance to GTFO before I step to violence. It's an option if they don't fuck off though.
It’s not sexist, it’s threatening.
While you may mean well, the vast majority of times a woman is complemented by an acquaintance or stranger, it’s because that person is trying to hit on the woman.
You might think “shouldn’t that be flattering?” No, it really isn’t. Every single woman I know has countless stories about how they have been harassed by desperate men trying to get into their pants. If you could barely walk into a public place without random strangers harassing you, you’d be soured on the idea too. To further compound the problem, men are on average bigger, stronger, and more aggressive than women.
So as an example, I was out with my girlfriend once, walking down a crowded street. There was a group of people we had to walk around so we went single file. In less than 30 seconds, she already had some shitty man cat calling her with loaded compliments. I shoved some people aside to make sure I was standing next to her again and he shut up immediately. This is just a fact of life for most women.
Men may not understand this because they only very rarely receive random compliments, but it hits very different as a woman.
There is an appropriate time to compliment women, and it’s after you have already built up a trusting friendship. Besides, a compliment means more coming from a friend than a stranger.
I constantly have to remind myself that I can be perceived as “threatening”, because I’m typically not threatening at all. Having some empathy is a good start, but there’s so much I don’t know about what women deal with on a daily basis.
"dangerous by default" because you are a man and just as disposable; ain't the patriarchy swell?
I mean we have countless Reddit stories where someone's dog or grandma died that day, and while groceries shopping someone tells them "hey, a beautiful girl like you should smile".
That's just an a**hole move. You don't know anything about that person. Maybe they're not smiling for a reason. I'd say it is very likely that this might be the case... Otherwise they'd probably already smile... And people keep forcing themselves on other people and telling them what to do. Like smile. When it's really none of their business and very intrusive.
Leave them be. Everyone is entitled to feel. Sometimes people are happy and sometimes they're not. It's not however their job to smile for you.
And if it's a medical condition or they were born with what people call a "resting bitch face"... You're just rubbing it in and be the 500th person who did a negative comment on their looks.
Why is how good a woman looks to you more important than her own feelings?
Why are you turning this into a personal attack? Asking women to smile is not something I do.
Just about everyone looks better when they smile.
You're the one who brought looks into it.
It's not women's job to be attractive.
They aren't there for your viewing pleasure.
They're not for you; they're not a public amenity.
You have no more right to expect them to smile in order to make your surroundings more aesthetic than you have a right to expect them to get their tits out for you to gawp at.
Ah I see!
So you're essentially saying that instead of asking women to smile, I should also ask them to get their tits out for me to gawp at!
Thank you :)
Context matters:
Taking a group photo? Stock photo models? PR? Greeter? - yes, asking someone to smile for a goal is fine
Someone just minding their own business - no, asking them to smile is selfish and just for your personal satisfaction. People don't need to justify to you why they don't feel like smiling. It's rude to demand it of others
Greeter? you think the people at walmart want to be there? 60+ and the best job they find is minimum wage and standing on their feet all day getting ignored by people mostly so other employees don't walk out the front with loot?
I think it’s because they usually mean “Shut up, I don’t care what you’re thinking about, just be pretty.”
That feels depressingly accurate. Ick.
"Your emotional and mental reality is less important than my physical appreciation/judgement of you."
Fuck the downvotes. This is no stupid questions!
Its considered rude towards women. Because a lot of men just say it to women to look more attractive or to just looke more nice as if women bare the responsibility to be nice to men or always be attractive otherwise they wont be considered women at all. I think it became like because many men just say it a lot (or many boomers dont know).
It's considered rude.
As a girl, my job isn't to look attractive to guys. I smile when I feel like it, which happens a lot because I'm happy, but I'd still consider it rude if anyone told me to smile like it was an order. If you're a guy and you wouldn't tell other guys to smile in the same context, then that falls under discrimination based on sex.
Because it's sexist to ask me to look better for you
Disclaimer: am man, as my username implies.
This was posted 4 times, you may want to remove the duplicates.
I would agree that people look better when they smile, but I think that it is considered sexist because women are asked to smile where men are not, in similar situations. I believe that women feel it is controlling, and since it's requested/required of women more often then men, their perspective is that it is sexist.
Would you feel okay with a woman asking you to flex? I would, but if it became something that happened on a regular basis, I think it would quickly become annoying to me.
I just removed the dupes, thanks. Fedia was being glitchy.
Plus, you explained your answer well.
/c/NoStupidQuestions
Asks a "stupid" question
-22
Wow, you really played yourself didn't you, OP?
Seriously, wtf is even the point of this subreddit at this rate?
Some people on Lemmy act all high and mighty while considering themselves as "different" from all the regular social media normies owned by corpos. But they're still the same here as well. Just a different coat of paint.
And I'm not even just referring to this post or even this community or instance. They are all just as retarded and lack any self awareness as much as all the other people online.
It's the same as when people on Reddit act superior and different, because they don't have their real names on the account compared to Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, ext.
You know the "It's not the same social media, we are different" that is popular both here and there and most other places to be honest.
In general it's asking another person to change their appearance to suit your preferences rather than just respecting whatever mood they're in or how their naturally resting face just looks, it's a dick move. Forcing a smile also sucks. It takes some amount of conscious effort to maintain a forced smile and smiling does engage quite a few muscles in the face, about 43 different muscles to make a smile.
Combine all of that with the history of women very much not having any kind of power in our society, and it takes on a more sinister tone when directed at women, hinting at the idea of someone's only valuable because they have a pretty face and it should be pretty all the time.
It's a weird thing to say in general. Would you say that to a man?
I’ve never said it to anyone (well, except when taking a group photo). You’re right; it’s weird. I’m just looking for perspectives on why it’s weird.
It’s weird because it sets you up as the objective authority on what makes them attractive.
With another man, that just comes across as a neutral weird. With a woman, it comes across with a bunch of historical and cultural baggage tied to how a large number of men treat women, and automatically associates you with that group of misogynists.
apparently everything. Why do women need to "look better"?
They don’t. That’s why I’ve never said it.
Men are not asked that, men were mostly not in customer service jobs that needed to look nice. Men were not attacked for leading men along by smiling at them, after they were told to do so.
I don't know if it's sexist but it sure as hell is annoying. Don't tell people to smile if you don't have a very good reason.
I've never been the sort of person to ask or insist anyone to display a particular expression. But...
At times I've encountered friends, both male and female, that were struggling in life and crying.
Sometimes I would smile at them and say "Hey, you're leaking again"
I almost always got them to lift their spirits and smile, with a bit of a lighthearted chuckle even.
Though not a moment I'd take a photo of, out of respect, it still reminds me how easy it can be to get a friend to smile.
I think you should ask men to smile more (like at the grocery store or gym) and see how it goes. 😉
I don’t feel that need, and don’t tell people to “smile more” because I don’t understand why it’s problematic. I’m getting a clearer idea, though.
It is generally uncouth to tell anyone how to feel regardless of gender. Compel the person to feel through your own words and actions. If you fail to achieve the desired results, change your tact.
If you fail to achieve the desired results, change your tact.
Or maybe just leave other people the fuck alone to live their lives in peace.
Do you have an example?
The only time I can imagine someone asking someone else to smile is when taking photos.
I don’t have an example because I knew it wasn’t a good thing to do, so I didn’t (and won’t!) do it. I just didn’t know why, but those who have responded have helped explain!
I initially didn't understand the context of the question as I assumed you meant when taking a photo.
I don't think it's sexist. It's just rude, no matter who you're asking. I'd equate it to someone asking me to dress differently as if it's my job to please them.
Something I watched in my women empowerment group I go too on YouTube called "miss representation"
It's a old somewhat interesting documentary but may help understand.
I taught my dog to smile. "Smile pretty"and she would bare her fangs for a treat
This, I think, is a stupid question.
No. OP seems to be asking in good faith, and has been receptive to the answers provided. Genuine curiosity should never be condemned.
First, think how you'd feel if someone said it to you. Second, think how you'd feel if seventeen people said it to you in one day.