Any Canadian's considering moving to the USA?
Any Canadian's considering moving to the USA?
I'm kind of in a strange boat right now where I'm really comfortable in Canada yet I can't shake this feeling I need to get over to the US of A in order to take advantage of that strong USD. I, like many Canadians, work for an American firm and have a TN visa. Recently, my employer offered to sponsor me for a green card, if I ever choose to relocate to the USA. I can live pretty much anywhere I want as I'm a remote employee, but I do travel to the USA for client work.
It's a tough decision to make. While I consider it, I thought I'd ask the community. So, say you good lemmings?
I went to the US for y2k , and was there for 5 years.
I came home with the exact same amount of money as I had when I left. And I also got a deep understanding for the absolute depths of cruel poverty in the US and for safety nets they don't have.
Do it. You'll never be the same, and you'll really appreciate Canada better.
We did it for four years. Washington state in the Seattle are is very nice. We met a lot of great people and we have fond memories.
Having said that it was clear early on this was not going to be permanent. Imagine taking your kids to the local park and seeing a sign that said no guns allowed in this park. Wait, guns are allowed in some parks? WTF. That was just a head scratcher. I found it genuinely hard to be in a place where I was decidedly middle class and so many people were so poor and with no benefits at all.
I remember once chatting with a cashier at the grocery store over the weeks as she was pregnant. One day I stopped seeing her and figured she had her baby. Two weeks later she was back. No maternity leave. She took her full two weeks of vacation and that was it. Shit.
Or the conversation I had with a cab driver who talked about still being in debt because his FIL was sick and avoided getting medical attention because none of the family had medical coverage until he had to be admitted.
The medical system is a confusing shambles of insanity. That's if you have good coverage. Once our daughter was sick and the childrens hospital directed us to a closer clinic. We went. There was a discussion about possibly admitting her but in the end she went home. A few days later she was worse so we ended up going to the children's hospital and she was admitted. Turns out the near by clinic was not in our medical coverage group and it cost us nearly $1000 out of pocket. Not fun but doable. The thing is, she was two nights in the hospital where we were covered. If we had admitted her the first day at the wrong hospital it would have cost us at least $10 000.
The whole system is a fucking nightmare of land mines and no one has any clue what any particular thing will cost you.
I just couldn't be happy under those conditions. Side note I'm not happy with the slide in equality here in Canada either BTW.
My job is in high tech and they pay was no better, just even. We lost money on selling buying houses, but that's just timing. I kept track of taxes paid. After medical expenses it was only a 5 percent savings and one medical emergency would too that the other way. Yes, I had great medical coverage.
I considered it and did an 8mo internship in Calafornia in 2016. While I would make about 2x what I make here (literally, I made 25CAD/hr in canada and 50CAD/hr in the states doing the same job with the same manager.) I don't think it's worth it for me at least. For one, the medical insurance is kinda insanely expensive, it ate up a huge chunk of the difference in costs while also not being nearly as good and making every trip to the doctors a huge worry and also a cost benefit analysis (and this was with very good, subsidized by my company insurance). I dislocated my shoulder in a biking accident while in Cali, I didn't go to the doctor because I thought it was just a sprain and the doctors would not be able to do anything (while costing me like 200 bucks). When I got back to Canada I got it checked out and they said it was too late to do anything but that it could have benefited from physio when it was fresh.
The healthcare as well as a hundred other factors has knock on effects where poorer folks are very noticeably worse off. Toronto has a lot of homeslessness, but I don't think Ive ever seen a homeless guy using a ruler as a splint on a leg bent the wrong way in Toronto. I don't want to live in a place that does that to people.
Lastly I found public transit to be even more of a joke than it is in Toronto, and as someone that never wants to drive daily that was kinda awful.
While I would probably be marginally more wealthy in the US, I would definitely be less happy, and have a dirtier conscious. I am pretty well off regardless and that was a while ago before the housing crisis in Canada really kicked off so maybe you'll reach a difference conclusion.
I lived in the US for a while. I knew people in the consular office in California who shared the stats on Canadian movement into and back out of the US. 75% of Canadian immigrants will repatriate within seven years. I was an over achiever, it took me 9.
There are advantages to being down there, but they are all centered in being childless and in good health. Everyone is one chronic illness away from bankruptcy. I was a post-doc at UCLA and my wife was a lawyer. The health insurance we could afford didn't allow us to get treated at the hospital I worked at. As a matter of fact we basically had to choose between preventative care and acute care because our policy wouldn't cover both.
The public school system has been so eroded it is basically useless, so you will have to use a charter school.
I enjoyed my time there, and California is a great place to be rich, but it gets much harder as you settle in and face actual adult life there.
Nope, double nope and, while we're at it, triple nope. Too much hate, guns, racism, inequality and I don't want to raise my kids there. If we had to relocate internationally, I'd rather go to New Zealand.
Hell no. Alberta is already too conservative/religious for me, I'm not going to go down to some theocratic hellscape to make more money.
Do you love mass shootings or just hate having healthcare?
No way. Stronger dollar is enticing, but the pros dont outweigh the cons in my opinion. The tribalism of american politics, the lack of free healthcare, and the increased risk of gun violence are some of those cons. These alone absolutely kill any interest I might otherwise have in moving to America.
No, im really not. There is too much darkness, and too much hate.
The gun culture, "freedumb" insanity, and lack of basics such as healthcare make me view it fairly close to the third world. the only they thing have better there is more buying power.
No. The risks outweigh any possible benefits. If it's a red state then the risks are even higher in terms of quality of education, healthcare and employment.
Nah. Don't feel like being caught up in one of the 15 mass shootings per day where the government will try to brush it off and blame it on trans people.
I may be dirt poor in Canada, but at least my trans neighbour and I are both safe when we leave our places.
Thought about it very seriously for a long time. I did grad school for planetary science and there's almost no market for that degree in Canada. But in order to work in the US in the space program, you need permanent residency in order to even have a crack at getting security clearance.
Had $10k US set aside for the immigration lawyer. Started interviewing at new space startups in 2015.
Then I was in Seattle for an interview and it was too expensive to get a hotel near the company. Since I had a car rental, I took a hotel an hour south -- a roadaide hotel for $200/night. Can't be that bad for $200, right? Got there and it was kind of shitty. Being if an adventurous sort, I went outside and sat in front of my room in the evening and chatted with the locals -- the hotel was full of people on the dole for various reasons. Every single one of them was a republican. They all thought Obama was coming for their guns. They railed against anything socialist while, ironically, being the absolute dregs of society and we're wholly supported by said system. I couldn't understand it. This isn't the hip Seattle I was expecting...
Then 2016 happened and I said "hmm, maybe I'll wait." Then the child detention thing happened and I said "I kind of feel like I am trying to immigrate to Germany in 1936..." and I took a look at myself. I decided to use that money as a downpayment on a house in Winnipeg and start a scientific equipment business. I'm not making instruments for spacecraft, but close enough. At least I'm no von Braun.
So background - Civil engineer with ~5Years of experience. Now fully licensed in Ontario. Have a wife and expecting our first child this year.
My FIL is dual and has been harping on me to move there since I graduated. Pay is, on average, much higher. Current 85k CAD, likely 100-120k USD if I moved.
However as a P. eng I'd need to rewrite two massive technical exams before I'd be able to be licensed there, and not all states have reciprocal licenses, meaning if we moved in the states I may have to rewrite them again. Additionally, with a family, average insurance costs eat up all/most of the difference in salary - my FIL is C-suite executive and that's roughly what he paid for his insurance yearly between co-pays and premiums.
Then add on more tribalism, high prevalence of guns, and the generally huge wealthy disparity they get, and Ive decided it's not worth the move.
But weigh the factors for yourself. If you can, try to go work somewhere for a month or so to see how it feels
nope. lol. Not unless my salary doubles, at minimum, and that's just to make sure I don't go bankrupt from healthcare. Actually fuck that, because if I get an injury that prevents me from working I'm still completely fucked. They're also notoriously anti union and worker rights are eroding day by day
That place is a shit show. Let's not even talk about Republicans...
No. Their cost of living is insane, plus I have T1D, which would be a pre-existing condition under their insurance schemes. Not insurmountable, but would be an ongoing issue. Plus their culture is intolerable.
Nope, I'm happy to sit up here in ol' Canada, living high on the hog, taking advantage of a 1.32 USD/CAD exchange rate.
It's not without risk. You'd have to see how much money you'd make, your cost of living including healthcare costs. Weigh them against the benefits including simply a change of scenery or sense of adventure, if it's worth it then go forth!
Might not be worth if you already have kids, for reason some people there only care about kids when inside a womb.
The whole American political and justice system is so messed up. Look carefully at the city and state you are relocating to, they're all different.
I sometimes want to go there but many things happening lately make me hug my city of Toronto a little tighter.
If you are single this sounds like it might be an interesting opportunity as long as you find a GOOD place to settle in the US. Much like every province is very different in Canada so are the states.
However keep a few things in mind:
- you will be a foreigner ( make sure you know your rights / or lack there of)
- your employment terms may change immediately from being fairly safe and having severance in Canada in law to changing to at will termination in the US depending on the state and situation.
- find out ALL the details of your company medical coverage and its cost before going, everything will cost you money medically in the US but you might get faster service
- If you are thinking about buying a home find out what the laws are for foreigners on a TN visa.. Also find out what the property taxes are as in some states they are VERY high, while the price of the home is attractive.
Alternatively look into low cost of living places in Canada and consider moving within Canada. You may find that there is a lot of difference in the provinces and major cities.
Lol no. Fuck those capitalists
Why go backwards?
I would recommend most people to live away from their hometown if they get an opportunity to. It’s worth seeing and experiencing how other people live - and it’s worth getting out of your comfort zone. Are you going to learn, grow and be better as a result? As well, is your career going to be fostered as a result?
It’s quite a general question because I don’t know what your values are. I don’t know what you’re leaving behind or how you’re quantifying that. But the US isn’t a monolith in climate, landscape, politics, culture, people, government, etc. You can live in on a Hawaiian island or in the vast concrete jungle of New York City - be in the same country, but live polar opposite lives. Canada isn’t a monolith either, but it’s not as extreme.
If money is your motivation, do a cost benefit analysis with the region you want to live in.
If all else fails to provide answers, leave it to fate. Flip a coin.
I moved to California a couple years back. I think it is absolutely worth the move. Especially as a software developer, you can make 4x what you do in Canada.
The biggest complaint I have is TN is annoying to renew, but overall it's not a big deal at all. If your work is sponsoring a green card, then that is the cherry on top.
My quality of life is greatly increased. I make way more, and also pay way less for groceries, cars, electronics, internet/cell phone. Los Angeles is literally more affordable for me than most of Ontario lol
I think moving would only be worth it if you're in a professional career that makes more in the US, otherwise your QOL will obviously be worse here.
Hell no, that country seems to be on track for a civil war.
Honestly, I'd just stick with the TN. With how easy a TN is to get, the only real advantage of a Green Card is if you plan on being unemployed in the US (which you don't, because you're in the US for the money like everyone else).
Though FWIW TN should allow you to work in the US anyway, so I'm not sure why they're only offering GC for relocation.
Be very careful about the strong USD, because things are more expensive in the US and they're often of lower quality for the same price. You won't feel richer unless you save a bunch of USD and move back to Canada down the line.
Earning CAD and spending CAD ~= Earning USD and spending USD
Earning USD and spending CAD is ideal
I moved to the US (California) for 3.5 years. It was actually a great experience. If you work in tech you should be able to make more money in the US and even in a HCOL city you should be able to save some. As other's mentioned the US is a very diverse place and you should be able to find a state/city/neighbourhood that matches your lifestyle and values.
Sponsorship for a green card is a very long process, and I don't think you can do it from a TN anyway, so you'd need to switch to an immigrant intent visa (H1-B, EB, etc.) The whole process can take years even for Canadian born people (if you are born in India or China you could wait decades)
Ultimately I decided to move back to Canada, being close to family was more important to me than making more money. I also didn't want to raise kids in the US.
If you have a lot of money , why not? But think to the cost of travel to see your family.
Do it! Experience as much of the world as you can - especially if your employer will help with cost/visa!
I would get the green card and figure out where I want to live later. Nothing about getting it would preclude you eventually settling back down in Canada. But it opens up living in Hawaii or Florida or Texas or New Orleans - very different cultural and climatic environments to anything we have in Canada.
inb4 all the comments immediately telling you it’s a bad idea i just wanna say that this isn’t a bad opportunity. america isn’t nearly as bad in day-to-day life as it seems and depending on your field you’ll almost certainly receive a large pay raise versus employment in canada. considering you can relocate anywhere in the US, cost of living shouldn’t be an issue. you very well might be able to find significantly lower cost of living in multiple american localities than in canada. if your benefits are good from your employer and can offset the costs of losing access to socialized medicine, you very well might be able to increase your gross income by a fairly significant amount. it just really amounts to playing your cards right and i’m getting the vibe you have a whole lot of wiggle room with your choices here. if you can square a lot of these issues away, america is a pretty great place to live all things considered. do realize you are entering a very volatile social atmosphere, however, and recognize you might become significantly “closer,” both physically and otherwise, to the primary major hotspots of global political instability. this isn’t necessarily bad, depending on you personally. there’s a unique opportunity for change in america currently, and it would be baseless to claim the mere existence of things like political activism, terrorism, gun violence, etc. inherently discount being here in principle. the vast majority of americans have never experienced an act of terror. in fact, if you care about a lot of global issues currently ongoing, then generally speaking america is likely your best bet for your activism or ideas to have significant impact
Canadian's thinking
What ABOUT our thinking? #l2s
I’m planning on going to the states next year. Double the salary and better opportunities.
For me, the exact same job pays 30%-50% more in the US, with 10x the number of openings.