Ancient Rome? Really?
Ancient Rome? Really?
109 comments
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What Trump actually said, in his opening remarks during the press conference, was as follows: “The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years, to ancient Rome …”
Edit: Even after reading this quote twice, I can't really understand what Trump wanted to say.
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Edit: Even after reading this quote twice, I can’t really understand what Trump wanted to say.
Can anyone ever?
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It doesn’t matter if what he says makes sense or is true; if he says it confidently and double downs on it, people will be convinced (or be coerced to agree)
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My take is that he sees himself as Julius Caesar reincarnate, who spelled the end of the Republic, and wants to be the first emperor of the USA. If you read about the last days of the Republic there are so many historically rhyming events that with the current state of America, a repeat of history seems almost inevitable. A spate of military wins means Rome becomes very rich very quickly, disband rival military power which leads to pirates and banditry, widespread extremes of wealth and poverty, politicians riling the public up into a frenzy with populist talking points, using corrupt judiciary system to punish their political opponents, plebs forcing themselves in on senate discussions, Krassus was a mega oligarch banker who bankrolled politicians and held debts as favours to call on, the Bona Dea scandal, Clodius being unceremoniously taken to court for sneaking into a women-only festival, who is betrayed by another political rival Sicero only to then be equitted (jury was bribed), and the subsequent crossing of the Rubicon by Caesar, leading to insurrection, more political assassinations, and the fall of the Republic.
I would say he is as spiteful and vengeful as Clodius (and feels wronged in the same way he did by the court cases against him), is as ambitious as Caesar, has Musk as his Krassus-figure backing him, craves attention and celebration of himself like Pompey, and thinks he is as important and catalytic to political change as the Gracchus brothers were.
Trump aspires to be as awful and as "great" as the conniving ruling class of ancient Rome, because he us just as morally bankrupt as many of them.
However all of these observations seem at odds with the way he presents himself - seemingly senile, lexicon of a five-year-old, and lacks any of the charisma and knack for timing that the great orators of the Senate had. In comparison, Trump as an isolated figure is but a skidmark compared to the intellectual brilliance of the Roman elite.
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And it's from 2019. Why was this even posted?
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Alright, you might wanna sit down for this. Hate to be the one breaking it to you, buuut the Internet is not always a rational place...
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So we can mentally prepare ourselves for Trump 2, the idiotening.
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Thank you, I was getting severe deja vu about that woman in the image
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Because somewhere, someone's Trump rage boner was starting to wilt just a bit.
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He means they're both White countries.
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America was founded on Roman ideals. I mean look at our capital building. Not only is it built in a Roman style there's literally a mural of the founding fathers consulting with Roman gods.
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It may be false but it isn't any better.
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So the thing he actually said is even dumber.
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Isn't it some white nationalist shit about real whites being descendent of Rome?
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We're all the descendants of when Hercules impregnated every female trojan as part of his 13th labour. You can read all about it in my book "The Da Vinci Code: Die Harder"
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Weird,
Trump already says a bunch of stupid shit on his own.
Not sure why someone would make the OP and make shit up.
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I mean yeah, fascism.
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he's talking about how fascists are obsessed with Rome and think they share white heritage or whatever
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Wouldn't it be funny if we found out the native Americans and Romans had a long standing friendship, much like them and the Vikings and that's what he means.
Obviously he's just dribbling shit he thinks sounds smart, but it would be kinda funny.
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I think he meant culture and politics has been similar since the time of ancient Rome, maybe thinking the United States existed that long ago.
It did not.
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Thanks for the fact checking. You're doing God's work.
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He said what he wanted to say. He's a fucking idiot that's got progressive dementia.
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I'd say it's conservative dementia but I'm not a doctor.
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He thinks he's complimenting them by linking them to the Roman Empire. Also he's probably completely forgotten that democracy was created by the Greeks.
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Imperialism I suppose.
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He probably likes how the US is similar to the Roman Empire in being imperialist.
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It's diplomacy, what you don't say is more important then what you do say.
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There's not a lot this man doesn't say.
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It’s white supremacy, he’s talking about whiteness.
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This makes sense. How else could the US take over the British airports during the revolutionary war without our history with Rome?
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All airports fly to Rome
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You know, I fucking hate Trump but I prefer to save my outrage about things he actually said and did. If you really wanna dunk on him, this ain't the time. Look at the actual quote:
"The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome."
I mean, I can't really disagree with that. I'm fucking SICK of journalists converting everything into clickbait. You want some things to be angry about? Here's some ACTUAL shit he did the same week:
- October 16, 2019: During a meeting with congressional leaders about the situation in Syria, President Trump reportedly referred to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as a "third-grade politician," leading to Pelosi and other Democratic leaders walking out of the meeting.
- October 17, 2019: At a campaign rally in Dallas, Texas, President Trump criticized the ongoing impeachment inquiry, labeling it a "witch hunt" and attacking political opponents, which some viewed as inflammatory rhetoric.
- October 18, 2019: President Trump announced a "permanent" ceasefire in Syria and lifted sanctions on Turkey. Critics argued that his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from northern Syria had enabled Turkish military actions against Kurdish forces, leading to regional instability.
If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there's plenty of actual shit he does. No need to make up shit just to get clicks. Fuck you lazy journalists!
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“The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome.”
Yeah that's not actually incorrect too badly. Well perhaps the "bound together" bit but like history for the massive systems, yeah, it is somewhat shared. Common law and whatnot. Although Italy definitely doesn'tuse common law anymore so Trump would be better of comparing US to brits in that sense.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Why promote inaccurate bullshit and ignore the actual shit he does?
Oh wait, right, propaganda and shit "journalists".
Thanks for the info on those happenings, btw.
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Yeah that’s not actually incorrect too badly. Well perhaps the “bound together” bit but like history for the massive systems, yeah, it is somewhat shared. Common law and whatnot. Although Italy definitely doesn’tuse common law anymore so Trump would be better of comparing US to brits in that sense.
I doubt Italy ever used common law as that originated in Medieval England. It's civil law that descents from Roman law (specifically Justinian's codification of it). Since civil law is way more common around the world most countries have more in common with Rome than the US (or other Anglo countries) do.
You are right however that trying to portray the US as a modern 'Rome' is not a Trump thing but common American propaganda.
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I mean, I can’t really disagree with that.
You can't? Just bookending two countries based on an elementary school student's understanding of world history doesn't bother you even a little bit? Nevermind the implicit neo-fascist context of the observation. It's straight out of the Mussolini speech catalog to invoke Ancient Rome and Modern Italy in the same sentence, despite the only meaningful relationship between them being geographic. Might as well compare modern Macedonia to the Persian Empire or the Yucatan Peninsula to the old kingdom of the Mayans or to call Germany a nation of Huns.
Even setting aside the fascist undertones, It's pure shameless empty-headed pandering. Shit I'd expect out of Eric Adams or George Bush Jr, just being spouted as route pablum regardless of context or historical accuracy. Holding Trump up as uniquely annoying and stupid on this front is what's obnoxious. Lots of politicians just say airhead nothingburgers like this regularly.
If you want to be annoyed about Trump, there’s plenty of actual shit he does.
You're allowed to be annoyed from time to time by the neo-fascist ramblings of a racist dipshit, as a treat.
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To keep this in context, this was a softball discussion with Trump from 2019 where he made some stupid throwaway comment about some supposed commonalities between the USA and Italy. If this annoys you THIS BADLY I don't know what to say. Pick like any of the 50 things Trump did this week and they are more relevant than this trashy article.
A wise man once told me "you must choose your battles" and for me, this is one of those times. This is such low stakes stuff compared to all the other crap he is doing. Don't let some lazy journalist distract you with this crap today. Look at some ACTUAL nasty things going on, like Trump talking about reducing Social Security. Save your rage for when it matters. If you let every lazy article that misquotes Trump rustle your jimmies like this, it's going to be wildly unproductive.
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Trump University, World History 101 and US History 101...
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-101
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I actually only just realized this implies Trump thinks the USA was allied with the Axis and the Nazis lmao
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We went to war against them. That's how Trump treats his allies.
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He's fucking retarded.
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He's fucking retarded.
2024 and this guy is using “retarded” as a slur and not being downvoted? Lame.
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Did u just ableistize
You can’t say “lame”, six or seven people associate it with disabilities so it’s offensive
(JK, “retarded” is dumb to say though cuz it’s like 60 or 70 percent of people who associate it with disabilities)
Yeah that’s my tangent, my 2024 guide for being a normal human:
- retard bad
- lame reclaimed (or unlikely to remind 98% of people of handicaps)
Open to other opinions!
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2024 and this guy is using “lame” as a slur and being downvoted by ponies. As expected.
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How do you know that he doesn't mean it in the medical sense? Would fit, too
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It ain’t a world war until Italy changes sides
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Arguably Italy didn't change sides in WW2, they had a civil war that split it into fascist and not-fascist states.
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No one can be this stupid, surely?the quote has been deliberately misrepresented
He actually said "The United States and Italy are bound together by a shared cultural and political heritage dating back thousands of years to Ancient Rome."
which could be inferred to be a reference to the large number of italian americans especially on the east coast and their effect on the US culture and the fact that much of the US political system is inspired by southern european governments. Ancient Rome had a senate too
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Also that the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern countries with a court, parlament and executive power. The American fumbling fathers even went so far as to copy many parts of it. Hence the name senate for instance. And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So you get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC
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the Roman legislation principles is the foundation for all modern counties with a court, parliament and executive power
The Roman consul and senate are nominatively similar to modern parliaments. But their functions were radically different. You don't have MPs and Senators obtaining their positions by leading armies of conquest abroad and bringing back slave captives to be tributed to the imperial core. You don't have civil wars to decide the next President or a pagan faith that places the nation's political leadership in the pantheon of occupied territories at sword point. You don't have a single city's local residents comprising the near-totality of the national body politic.
The American fumbling fathers event went so far as to copy many parts of it.
The iconography. Not the function. The actual political system was based on local colonial government organizations built on the back of the founding compacts of the first settlers. Local assemblies and mayoralities and governorships were features of European colonial rule, not Roman republicanism. State assembles and a national legislature/executives were features of Dutch protestant joint-stock company boards/executives not Roman dictatorships. Courts were based on the English Common-Law system not Roman Codes.
FFS, early American politicians knew jack shit about Roman civilization. They were working off of pseudohistory largely invented during the era of Charlemagne and passed telephone-style through editorialized written and oral histories for the next 1400 years. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison looked at the French Catholic aesthetic, which sought to invoke Roman art and architecture, and cribbed it to appeal to his snobby know-nothing American Protestant peers. Also, a ton of Freemason wink-wink shit. That's why they were putting pyramids and fasces on all their early works.
And much of the architecture was inspired or copied from Palladio. So toy get that neoclassical look that is the hallmark of DC
That's absolutely true. Although the real neoclassical look of DC wasn't really the focus of the city until the 19th century, because that shit was expensive to build and you needed Lincoln's greenbacks and the industrial revolution machinery to complete big iconic construction projects.
But it was all aesthetics, no substance. A bunch of ionic column toppers does not a Roman political system make.
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you read my mind, was just editing my previous comment when you sent this
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Not on Spain?
And he's still wrong.
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Right. Especially the "shared cultural and political heritage" we had with Italy before 1776.
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It always boggles me how the hell he can even string a coherent sentence together
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Can he?
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By perseverance, eventually something coherent comes out.
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Anyone have the clip?
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Please, I need this
Edit: Did it myself, so he did say it, but the translator face was a different incident
Ancient rome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htgnBODcB-I
Funny translator face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7nSlWu0ICI
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Why would anyone think he came up with that? He was quite obviously just reading a speech someone else wrote.
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Philip K Dick intensifies...
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I've been reading science fiction all my life. I've seen stuff in the past few years that makes Robert Heinlein's 'The Crazy Years' look like the Age of Reason.
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Sick reference
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ITT a bunch of ripe misinformation targets.
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Wait, so then did he say it or didn't he?
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He did not. He read of a prewritten speech tying the US to the cultural history of Italy. Pretty tame stuff
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To be fair, Trump is quite very damn old.
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Look at the funny fascist over there, isn't he hilarious? Fun fact: a lot of people also made fun of Hitler.
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Sonic The Hedgehog has been a beloved franchise since he 1960's
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To be fair, he is only the future junior assistant deputy backup president.
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America’s chosen.
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In God we trust. Probably because our presidents are useless.
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Where did Pechenegs and Cumans go? Oh, right, that was another Putin.
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Well, the fasces is an ancient Roman symbol.
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Maybe he means that America has always treated Italians with the utmost respect, maybe except when they were treated like utter garbage when their poor, tired, unwashed masses showed up on the shores of the USA.
Not exactly allies during WW2, unless he means Mussolini's ideals and Trump's ideals share similar political threads.
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Mormonism.jpg
109 comments