2mo ago

How do Vietnamese people have such favorable views of the USA after what they did to them?

cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/6484299

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/
America’s image is mostly positive among the Asian nations polled. Particularly large majorities see the U.S. favorably in the Philippines (92%), South Korea (84%) and Vietnam (77%).
It's from 2015 but more recent polls have found similar data IIRC
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/comparing-global-views-of-the-united-states-and-china-during-the-trump-and-biden-administrations/
79% of people polled in Vietnam chose the US in the "Preferred alignment choice in U.S.-China rivalry" which is a different metric obviously but still points towards the same idea

Edit: According to Luna Oi, Pew Research Center is a neoliberal think tank that cannot be trusted on anything about Vietnam

https://youtu.be/hPCoDz_CPCc

33 comments

never underestimate american Soft power
- This right here. The same reason countries like the Philippines and Taiwan have a hatred of China for “historical reasons” while adoring Japan.

Others have mentioned that the data is misleading and the effects of time
But there's also the fact that they are communists. They look at the American people as separate from the ruling class.
Additionally they recognise the efforts of many Americans in stopping the war. And many have had positive experiences with individuals, both during and after the war.
None of this minimises the atrocities of the US state or the individual atrocities of US soldiers. But the Vietnamese people have risen from the war, and are used to making friends with old enemies like China.
- Well said

I mean at least part of this is that they won. They beat the Americans.

Brookings and Pew Research are known data fabricators, 80% of Vietnamese people do not hold pro-US foreign policy/pro US neoliberal world order opinions
- I got this source from Luna Oi on how they asked misleading questions that were totally different from the reported data
  https://youtu.be/hPCoDz_CPCc
  Do you have another source to add to my archive?
  
  I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
  yewtu.be
  inv.nadeko.net
  yt.artemislena.eu
  piped.video

The USA is basically the wealthiest country on the planet with a high standard of living for many, and the public image of the USA that gets projected is really of the middle class or wealthy elites. That’s a lifestyle to be envious of and even if it’s not really reality for even most Americans that’s still basically the benchmark lifestyle that many people aspire to all over the world.

I've always wondered this about the Philippines, too. They love the US, they love MacArthur and his "I will return" line, even though it was a US colony forever and I'm pretty sure was brutally suppressed with hundreds of thousands killed before.
- Most countries don't prioritize keeping the memory of such barbarity alive; America is such a strange beast that most people probably think it's safe to just forget what kind of country we are.
  
  forget what kind of country we are.
  rule #1 of the based order

As you have learned, it's just cope from Burgerlanders, in this case purposely misleading polls. And speaking of Luna, she has volunteered for an org in Vietnam that specializes in taking care of victims and descendants of victims of Agent Orange. Yep, I'm sure all of those people have swell opinions of the US.

Tbh most people dont really hold much intergenerational resentment against other countries unless that country's still actively being hostile against them or like there's an actual propaganda apparatus encouraging it. In the case of vietnam, regardless of americas past atrocities against them, what they currently are to them is a rich trading partner that buys a load of their exports and gives their government favourable treatment to persuade it away from aligning closer with china.
- I have a couple of vietnamese friends with family still in vietnam and according to them its mainly only older Vietnamese people who hold actual grudges against americans
  
  I've heard the same thing as well, that it was the older generation that still remember and are worried the younger generation will forget. I don't blame them for it in the slightest; what was done to them was absolutely horrifying. The winter soldier testimony to congress contained some of the most horrific acts of barbarity I'd ever heard, only overshadowing what happened at Nanjing because it happened to far more people.

Propaganda is a hell of a drug

People forgive.
Consider that Germany is a very welcome and integrated country within Europe and the wider world. It's only the bigots and racists that are still hostile towards them.
- I'm racist against German I guess.
- Bigots and racists love Germany wtf are you talking about
  
  Depends on the country. I doubt like British ghouls do giving that they cosplay living under the blitz.
- and the wider world
  I'm not sure that's true; I recall a few African countries that were pretty vocally unhappy with Germany and unhappy about it to the faces of the politicians while they were in the room. A lot of people don't like Germany for their behavior today. Additionally the fact that nowhere near enough Nazis made love to a noose and instead got government positions after the war is the reason a lot of people wisely keep an eye on them. I still recall when there were a series of murders of Turkish people in Germany everybody and their dog were quick to say it was just Turkish people killing each other, and even the news was mocking the murders by calling them the 'doner murders', and people were bizarrely shocked that it turned out to just be your average Germans who were murdering Turkish people, and the police not only had a suspicion it was just Germans but had been harassing the families of the murdered. Unsurprisingly the people who are 'bigoted' or 'racist' to Germans don't tend to be racist to non-white people; instead the people who praise Germany tend to not have the best relation to non-white countries.
  
  the news was mocking the murders by calling them the 'doner murders'
  jesus christ. yet another reason to hate the adolfs
  Death to America
  
  You raise some good points, and of course there are few universal truths especially if it descends to the individual. No country is without its haters. Certainly my Uncle, who only visited Germany from a height of 20,000 feet whilst dropping bombs on it, never ever forgave them and was always incredibly rude if we ever met any. He had more reason than most perhaps, as did many during the second world war, and you can't force someone to forgive. I'm British, and many in the world don't like us much, and with some reason.
  But considering the global hatred against Germany 80 years, I still maintain that most people accept that things are different today, as do the Vietnamese against America, and perhaps against Russia who used them for the proxy war. Perception's not fixed, of course. Global views towards Russia have shifted dramatically within two short years.
  But I chose my racists phrase carefully. If someone hates someone for their country, that is the very definition of racism. "Racism is prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin." I don't think it's possible to argue against that someone's racist in that situation.

I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
yewtu.be
inv.nadeko.net
yt.artemislena.eu
piped.video

33 comments