2mo ago

Trudeau opposes allowing Russia to keep ‘an inch’ of Ukrainian territory

www.theglobeandmail.com Trudeau opposes allowing Russia to keep ‘an inch’ of Ukrainian territory

The Prime Minister said that, as a middle power, Canada understands how important it is to protect the rules-based international order

Summary

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau opposed any deal letting Russia keep Ukrainian land, saying it would encourage other countries to break international rules.

Speaking to a NATO meeting, he highlighted Canada’s $19.5 billion aid to Ukraine and stressed the need to defend global stability.

Trudeau defended his plan to raise military spending to 2% of GDP by 2032 after criticism of Canada’s low defense funding.

He warned against isolating Ukraine, saying continued support is crucial to stop further global conflicts.

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2mo ago

Trudeau opposes allowing Russia to keep ‘an inch’ of Ukrainian territory

www.theglobeandmail.com /politics/article-trudeau-opposes-russia-annexing-ukraine-territory/

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2mo ago

Trudeau opposes allowing Russia to keep ‘an inch’ of Ukrainian territory

www.theglobeandmail.com /politics/article-trudeau-opposes-russia-annexing-ukraine-territory/

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2mo ago

Trudeau opposes allowing Russia to keep ‘an inch’ of Ukrainian territory

www.theglobeandmail.com /politics/article-trudeau-opposes-russia-annexing-ukraine-territory/

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121 comments

If Russia is permitted to annex any part of Ukraine it sends the message that they can attack any country and eventually take over parts of it.
If the world doesn’t stop Russia from taking Ukraine, Russia isn’t going to stop once they’ve taken Ukraine.
- Exactly! I don't know why appeasement is even discussed with any seriousness. We've all seen this before.
  Previously on: "World History"
  England: "Fine, fine, you can have, like, ~~Poland~~ a slice of Czechoslovakia, but then chill out!"
  Narrator: "He did not 'chill out'."
  (Edited for accuracy. Thanks!)
  
  The United Kingdom, along with France, ceded Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland, not Poland, to Hitler's Germany; in fact, it was the Nazi regime's invasion of Poland the following year that prompted France and the United Kingdom to declare war.
- Can’t understand why you’re being downvoted. This is quite literally the collective assessment of NATO.
  
  It’s also essentially why NATO exists. I understand the “not involved in conflict” clause for applying but this seems like a special occasion where the conflict is coming from the whole reason the damn organization was created in the first place
- I don't get why Russia isn't picked apart by its neighbors. They behave like a bully, just gang up on him already.

2/3rds of Ukrainians want the same. They just need the help to resist the Russian invasion.
Poll data was part of Perun's latest video on the latest developments of the war and what the turning point will be:
https://youtu.be/vf2vSoWsmgI (0:50:38)
- Why only 2/3?
  
  getting 2/3 of anyone to agree on anything is hard enough when you're not dealing with 40 million people, all of whom have direct consequences of the outcome of the decision. you're gonna have a few deluded souls who've allowed themselves to think russia (lowercase intentional) is their ally, but you're also going to have people who think the best thing to do is ceasefire now and find a better path in the future. i'd estimate there's around one perpective on this war per ukrainian citizen, and so "should we retain our boundaries when this is over" is just one way of getting a cross sectional view of those perspectives
  
  I assume the other 3rd are "Ukrainian" in the way that they've been places in Ukraine by Russ, but remain loyal to Russia, not Ukraine
  
  War weariness is a thing.
  I wouldn't be surprised if a non-insignificant number of that 1/3 that doesn't oppose Russia keeping some territory are just tired of the war and want it to be over.
  3 years is a long time to live in a war torn country with frequent power outages and food shortages. People tend to disassociate when it doesn't affect them directly and if they happen to live on the Western side of Ukraine, losing territory on the Eastern border will have less of an effect on them than continued food and power shortages.
  
  For one reason: because there are selfish people who only care about themselves and today, not others and not tomorrow.
  Imagine being selfish, and just thinking that if the war ended now, your own quality of life will immediately improve, to hell with others whose homes are now Russian territory.
  
  War is hell. They have made many sacrifices. There is some part of the population that would like for the war to end and defacto (not dejure) give up Crimea and donbass in return for NATO protection. Unfortunately that outcome is very much not possible unless they get more help from the west. Russia's current goal is annexation of all of Ukraine.
  
  1/3 are probably working class people who are aware that their conditions under the ukrainian government or russian government will be the same and that war will only bring them more misery.

Raise the military spend now. Stop kicking the can. We've helped, sure, but we need to do more.
- Agree 100% we can't rely on our rich bi-polar brother in the methlab of a house next door to protect us anymore.
  
  As one of those rich bipolar methlab brothers, save yourself while you can
  
  You need protection from greedy politicians and the military industry sucking in public money and fueling wars.
  
  The Kremlin would be thrilled to see you in this thread shitting on the US
- Tax the rich to fund it lol.
- Raise the military spend now.
  Fuck no, cut the military spending and stop fueling wars.
  Canada already spend billions of dollars in war, increasing military budget will only get you more war.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_highest_military_expenditures
  
  Only works if your adversaries also cut military spending. Unfortunately countries like Russia have shown that they'll happily attack those unable to defend themselves. This also means that increased military spending can cause less war if it deters those who would otherwise attack.
  
  Canada's expenditure as a % of gdp according to your own source is pretty weak already. Insisting on having no military spending is hardly a real argument. Also, Canada has a very real stake in ensuring russia doesn't succeed given those coveted waters you guys have along the northern territories.

Trudeau is spot on and Canada should ask the Blue States if they would like to be annexed.
- Yeah sure, it will go like this:
  2025 - blue states join Canada
  2026 - red states aka the remainder of the USA face growing unrest as their funding handouts are cut off
  2026 - tech companies in the province of Canifornia stop sharing new tech breakthroughs with USA due to posturings by their increasingly expanding military industrial complex and proposed weapon developments
  2027 - huge skills drain in USA as health professionals and remaining scientists flee to Canada
  2028 - Gilead starts amassing troops and staging 'special military exercises' on their border with Canada
  
  Canada counter attacks via this banger. https://youtu.be/2gfve5QhWyI
  
  nice Gilead reference. under his eye
  
  Fuck ton of military bases in California and the other blue states.
  
  +1...However, by 2028, the MAGATs will resort to violence on each other to settle their internal disputes.
- The population of Canada has only recently surpassed the population of California. Annexing the blue states would be a big meal for Canada to digest

As an American, I'm confused that Canada has less than 2% GDP for military spending. Do you guys just spend all that money back on yourselves? Fucking nice.
- Yeah honestly as a Canadian with 2 kids and another on the way. It's pretty awesome. We get in the neighborhood of $1500 a month for our two kids already and once the next one is born we will be getting north of $2200 a month from our government. It covers a lot of bills and makes the life we have possible. We live small but we make our money go a looong way and prioritize time with our kids over extra cash flow. My wife works part time and right now I'm able to be a full time stay at home dad until my wife takes another maternity leave then I'll go back to work part or fulltime.
  Edit: Also our healthcare is fully covered. It's such a relief. My wife had one potential issue with her last pregnancy and our healthcare system went above and beyond to make sure everything was fine. They immediately sent her to a more capable facility by helicopter and had specialists waiting and everything. And it was all free. They take children's health very seriously and spend any money necessary.
  Some people hate our healthcare system and I get it, it has its flaws. But when shit hits the fan and you are in need. They rush to your safety it's actually crazy. My wife and child ended up being absolutely fine but they didn't even take the chance.
  One time my youngest had a really bad virus and was at home. He took a turn for the worse and started having low level breathing and his skin changed colour. We rushed to the hospital since it's literally 2 mins from our house. The second someone at the front entrance saw his little face it was like go time. They cleared the hallways immediately and like 5 doctors and nurses took him from us and rushed him into the Emerg. They spend a lot of time training for moments like that and when someone is really in need of help they are there and they work like a well oiled machine to save lives.
  
  Canada's health care sounds like what Finland's health care is supposed to be.
  Instead our government is busy running it to the ground at terminal velocity.
  
  You get paid that much PER MONTH? That’s 18,000 per year.
  In the US, most people just get tax credits. They don’t come anywhere near $18k.
  If you’re poor enough, you’ll qualify for WIC which is state dependent, generally $25 per month per kid under 4 years, ~$50 per month for the mom, and limited to certain food/child items.
  Thank you for sharing.
  On one hand, it’s disgusting that we don’t have a similar system. Yet at the same time, you’re the “proof” against such a system and the reason conservatives would never support it - that people won’t work anymore if we had this system. Neither of you have a full time job.
  There has to be a better compromise.
- I'm assuming it's because they really only have a single neighboring country, the US. Despite the Fallout games, I doubt that the US invasion/annexation of Canada is even seen as a remote possibility, or something that they could really ever meaningfully oppose were the US to even try it. There's just no need to maintain a ridiculously large military when you're neighbors with the country that has the largest military spending on Earth anyways, may as well just spend your money on your people.
  
  We're annexing them through conservative news sources instead. It's slower, but quite effective.
- And Mexico spends 8 billion on war a year.
  Very nice.
  I'm jealous.

20 billion
Man, I'm jealous.
His country has universal health care and isn't wasting trillions a year policing the world like we are.
- Our healthcare system has been deteriorating over the last 5-8 years now though with many healthcare professionals leaving the force for higher paying US opportunities. It's lead to an annoying experience out here for anyone younger than 40 seeking healthcare.
  
  Healthcare is also provincially managed
  
  It's more to do with the aging population.
- I'll let you in on something else. We spend as much taxes per capita on healthcare as America does.
- Trump will fix that, right?
  /s
  
  Zelensky has already said the war will end quicker under Trump, which means he's probably already had a chat with the new regime and is resigned to surrendering most of the land Russia have already taken.
  And none of it will stop Russia regrouping and trying again in a few years.
- Massive immigration has pushed our health care system to the breaking point in most provinces, also most of the world is annoyed at us because we're not meeting our NATO 2% GDP military funding. Our military is underfunded, most of our population borders the US so the current government doesn't see a point in military funding since any attack on us would be an attack on the US. Also he raised our taxes to pay for all this aid to other countries, he's not very popular right now because of all his new taxes. The second an election is called, he's out in his ass and TinyTrump will be elected in his place and we'll be in the same boat as you
  
  Massive immigration is not why our healthcare systems are at breaking. In fact, they are critical in staffing an understaffed system.
  Leading with it, and blaming it, is right into the narrative that is electing these right wing governments.
  
  You fell for the propaganda :(

"International rules"? Is that a thing?
- Theoretically, it has been since the Germans lost WW1
  
  Not really, nobody did anything when Germany had broken the Munich agreement in 1939. It wasn't until well into the war that UK and France declared it null and void.
  
  Congress of Vienna was the first time historically I have really read about nation states pearl clutch about "international laws" and "rules based international order", I might argue that it predates WW1 by about 100 years.
  
  I just have to laugh every time I hear people pretend it means anything other than "powerful countries doing whatever they want".
- only if its not israel or us
  russia is very much wrong here, but the western hypocrisy of ukraine vs palestine is next level of disgusting.

We really are at the point of "Well this guy wants us to exterminate innocents, and this guy wants us to not do that, so how about we only kill 3 Million jews this time instead of 6 million eh?" of Neo-Liberal discourse
NO! Don't let Russia have a god damn thing, not even a single glass of water that comes from Ukraine.
- What about putin fucks off? You are not even as cohorent as a russ bot.
  
  Do you not understand what I'm saying? I'm saying Putin needs to fuck off

I agree. I hope Ukrainians abroad step up and go back to defend their country. Working in the technology industry I know there are many Ukrainian men who have left and hold jobs at technology companies. It’s time to go back and fight.
- I'm not sure that the best way for a software developer to support the war effort is by carrying a gun.
  Hopefully if they support the defense of Ukraine, they find a way to support the Defence of Ukraine. I'm hesitant to prescribe the best way to do that.
  
  Someone posted an image of a squad of Ukrainian soldiers overlayed with their pre-war civilian jobs. They were all in tech, software engineers, data science, etc, etc.
  If they have some special skills creating missile or drone software, or in cyber warfare — sure they can fight that way. But, it sounds like the front line needs reinforcements badly and these guys ought to at least step up for their country instead of hiding out abroad.
  
  There are certainly tech focused positions in any modern military, but yeah, the front lines are probably not the best place for a software developer with probably no military training.

Yo where was this attitude when russia annexed crimea?
🤔
- https://xcancel.com/JustinTrudeau/status/445344900658114560 And more recent: https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2024/03/16/statement-prime-minister-mark-10-years-russias-illegal-occupation-and
- Well, here they are today at least.
  Politicians rely on people, and people have finally started to wake up.

Why everyone else than Ukrainian people is deciding about what will be with Ukraine?
- Oh wait, did Ukraine say they wanted to give away their land?
- The unfortunate reality is they don't have the military resources to independently decide their fate as long as Russia is invading.
- They're giving it all they got too, I'm pretty sure

Then he can pack his bags and go to the front

How about not allowing the US puppet government to continue slaughtering ethnic Russians? Prevent the US from arming the Nazis in Ukraine, and there’s no need for Russia in Ukraine.
- The Russian infantry is accepting applications.
- I haven't blocked anyone before in Lemmy, what does it actually do?
  
  It blocks them, but only if you leave a comment saying you blocked them or it won't work.
  
  It maintains your echo chamber.

US goes to Afghanistan, build bases in Syria, destroy Iraq, police every country in the world. Along with facilitating Israel annex of Palestine and illegal land grab.
Yet Canada is not interested in making any statement.
If Mexico goes socialist for any reason, will see Canadian soldiers in the front line annexing Mexico with the US.
Hypocrisy in foreign affairs are fucked up, and escalating the aggression has no benefit for mankind.
- Canadian soldiers annexing Mexico
  Pure insanity
  
  Trump is the president so it doesn't get more insane
  https://lemmy.world/post/22552810

121 comments