2y ago

The loss of dark skies is so painful, astronomers coined a new term for it

www.space.com

Given the harmful effects of light pollution, a pair of astronomers has coined a new term to help focus efforts to combat it. Their term, as reported in a brief paper in the preprint database arXiv and a letter to the journal Science, is "noctalgia." In general, it means "sky grief," and it captures the collective pain we are experiencing as we continue to lose access to the night sky.

92 comments

Don't think I've ever seen a legit night sky in person.
- I saw the Milky Way for the first time when I visited Cooperstown New York 5 or so years back. My neck was sore by the time I stopped looking. It’s a shame most people don’t know what they’re missing out on.
  
  When I lived out in the country I could see it almost every clear night. I could also watch satellites drift overhead, and there were so many fireflies I could walk through the woods at night without a flashlight.
  Suburbs fucking suck.
  
  Check out Cherry Spring state park. It's a dedicated star park in mid north PA classes as Bortle 2 light pollution (cities are 8+, uninhabited it 1)
  Edit: don't forgot to avoid the moon
- The Milky Way may be closer than you think. I had never really seen it until a few years ago. I was in my usual darker spot and took a picture of it with my phone's astro mode. I looked back up and suddenly, there it was. I just never knew what to look for or, more importantly, just how big the visible structure was.
  I recommend taking a look at lightpollutionmap.info and seeing what's around you. I'm in a major city metro but dark-enough skies are less than 2 hours away. The Milky way revelation was in a "Bortle 5" zone (red on the map). Cities are class 8+, oceans/uninhabited is class 1. Constellations help you find the core (namely the tea pot/milk dipper asterism) and knowing what time of year/night to look is important. August is the usual ~10pm month but you can go out later at night earlier in the year and vice versa from about April (close to sunrise) to October (near sunset).
  Be aware you need to adapt your eyes. Pupils dilate in seconds but the 20 minute thing comes from replenishing rhodopsin in your eyes. White/blue/purple light bleaches that compound but red doesn't. With enough commitment and knowledge at that same place, Andromeda becomes a naked eye object for me. Extremely faint and just a smudge, but unmistakable.
  
  I live in that gigantic red and purple blob in Northern Europe and I’m lucky if I can see 3 stars in the sky at night.
  I’ve never ever seen a totally star-filled sky and it’s something I’m very sad about. One day I’ll head out to somewhere like the Australian Outback and just gaze up in awe.
  
  Wow! I'm closer than I thought! Thanks so much. This may change where I camp this weekend.
  
  Neat map, thanks. I'm not terribly far away from clearer night skies, but I'm down in the red-purple and not particularly mobile.
  
  Yeah, I just saw the Andromeda galaxy for the first time in Saturday night. Naked eye viewing, but had to use my sky map app to locate it. Holy shit! Was amazing. Luckily we brought binoculars so I could really see it.
- Look up a light pollution map for your area, it will show you the darkest parts around you to go see the sky for what it really is. Usually within an hour or 2 of anywhere there is a place dark enough to see the milky way with your own eyes.
  
  Thank you! I've been wanting to take a long exposure night sky. And your advice is perfect!
- I haven't seen the Milky Way for maybe 15-years. Even at my camp in the boondocks, nada. You have to really get out there, can't imagine where I would go from NW FL.
  
  Drive up to West Virginia? Seriously, I'm looking at a light pollution map and it's crazy. I'm gonna drive out west of Kerrville, TX and take a gander.
- it always seemed a bit like something in cartoons. it must've been so much more vibrant in ancient times, it makes sense why they were so into star tracking. like a big soap opera
- I saw one in the great sand dunes
- I was ready to see the Milkyway in Colorado a few years back but there was wildfire smoke covering the sky the entire time I was there.
  I did get to see it just a bit in Arkansas last year(it really wasn't as dark as I'd have liked it). I was doing some long exposures with a camera and my mom says "Wow it's a pretty clear night except for that one cloud..."
  
  A few years ago, I moved from Chicago to a medium sized city in Colorado. Even with the light pollution we have in my city, the stars are still great. In Chicago I was lucky to see fifteen stars on a clear night.
  
  Ok I'm probably just being stupid, but can someone tell me why everybody's talking about seeing the milky way? Aren't we part of the milky way? Do you just mean the other stars and stuff?
- Well, it's possible to find places even under fscking Moscow to watch stars. Far from residential areas and any street/road lighting and traffic, naturally, somewhere in the forest.
- Last time I saw one, I was a Boy Scout at Camp Barnhardt. I think that was in South Carolina.
- I didn't see the milky way until I was in my 30s
- I have, but only when I visit my uncle's cottage which is way out in the boonies of Northern Ontario
There was a NASA lady on StarTalk recently talking about how there's something like 360,000 more satellites planned/approved to go into orbit and it's going to completely erase the night sky. We're at something like 7700 currently.
- We are slowly turning ourselves into Krikkit.
  
  Soon as we invented the little green piece of paper it was all downhill from there
- Ehh apparently it’s 11330 as of the end of June this year.
  https://www.pixalytics.com/satellites-orbiting-earth-2023/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Index%20of,the%20last%20of%20these%20updates.
- If you have seen that StarTalk episode, do you remember what Neil DeGrasse Tyson's response to that? He seems like good people..
  
  I don't recall offhand his response but I believe it was this episode: https://startalkmedia.com/show/the-story-of-space-imaging-with-carolyn-madam-saturn-porco/
  
  What was it?
It’s shocking how many lights are left on during the night in a city or a built up area. Does a big box store need to keep its logo lit all night? We’re so desperate to shut out the beauty of the planet and blind ourselves with human made ugliness.
- It's frustrating how many people have security lights aimed wrong. They're often aimed high, wasting light to the sky, and they're often mounted low, blinding you walking into your own home and leaving you vulnerable.
  
  Or those backyard street lights bright enough an airplane could land with!
  
  Be nice if everyone just used infrared and/or motion detection. There's no reason to have outdoor lights on all night.
- TBH if I’m out at night I’d much prefer it to be bright and lit up in the city. If the city is dark and quiet at night it feels more unsafe to residents.
  Not saying it’s right, but it makes sense
  
  The city can be lit and bright and keep the light pollution to a low. If only street lights were on, and these were directed towards the ground.
  
  My gf says the same about our hood. I like it dark as it is. We spend a lot of time walking at night, and I don't feel it's any less safe.
  If you're on the street in the dark, your eyes adjust so you can also see into the shadows. If it's lit up, you can only see what's in the light.
  I'm actually a bit nervous under the bright lights! Having said that, I'm a man and don't have the same concerns as a woman (in the dark).
  On top of that, I almost always carry a pistol with tritium sights or a light. So maybe that's another reason I'm a bit more confident in the dark?
- Or the big advertisement screens. I get the need for street lights but they also don't have to be the most brightest super white LEDs that exist either. Nowadays I literally can't even tell whether it is cloudy or not, because the sky is just this mushy grey noise. And the sad thing is that I still remember the night sky from a couple decades ago when cities weren't quite as bright. Now you can be lucky to see the little dim flickering of the brightest odd stars every now and then.
  
  the sky is just this mushy grey noise
  You might even say it's the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel
- As someone currently living across the road from a strip mall with a dozen various businesses…NO YOU DO NOT NEED TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON 24/7
Reminds me of how we sometimes export light pollution. When I first got to Afghanistan I thought I would be able to see the stars being in the middle of a desert. That idea was quickly made harder to accomplish by the massive light pollution coming from camp leatherneck which, along with the moon dust perpetually floating mid air, killed any chance to see the stars clearly for miles around. Base turned a patch of desert into a sprawling light factory in just a few years.
I feel this.
- Srsly, a few weeks ago, I though to take walk at 2 AM, and TF. The sky was literally bright as it was 6PM. Ruined the entire feel for me.
  
  Going to see a decent patch of sky basically requires a vacation to go somewhere else.
I live in the darkest part of my town. When my porch light burned out, I decided to not replace it because sometimes I can see stars at night.
Why is every other website being bought by future inc and using that same layout
In my parents farm the night sky is perfectly visible. They live far from any town and there are no lights you can't just turn off so sometimes I just look at the sky when I'm visiting.
Plenty of places like this still in my country thankfully.
- I've always lived in cities and didn't see the milky way until I was in my 30s.
  Anyhow, I took my kid camping last weekend and she couldn't believe how many stars there were. We were both enjoying it but then the string of SpaceX satellites went by and kind of ruined the moment
  
  I laughed at that last part. I am sorry that happened to you but it is pretty funny.
  
  We were just up in the mountains last weekend, it was by far the best stargazing I have ever experienced in my 40 years. I could see the Andromeda galaxy with the naked eye.
  Anyway, I counted over 15 satellites during the 2 hours we were outside, as well as 2 very bright meteors. Plus we saw the international space station and an iridium flare.
  
  Elon ruins everything he touches
Try in a small town. Seriously, tho villages are better. Go in the backroads, you'll have plenty of sky and stars to get lost in.
- You'd be surprised how much "bleeding" there is. You also can't scope in certain directions because of even really far off cities. You're often forced into a specific cone.
  
  Perfection is the enemy of "good-enough and be able to experience in this lifetime"
- Only in the most remote deserts, wilderness areas and oceans can you find a sky as dark as our ancestors knew them.
- The article is about how there's less of it over time. Areas that were once nice (ex. Great views over the water or over a nice field) no longer work because of nearby light pollution.
- There are few places left on Earth to see an unpolluted night sky. Definitely nowhere near civilization. On top of that, light pollution still drowns out dimmer objects permanently. We are blinding ourselves globally. To our ancestors the sky was a living light show. Its no mystery why they thought gods lived there.
- In densely populated areas you have to move quite far out to find such places. Like, check a light pollution map and then scroll into central Europe, like around the Netherlands and western Germany. It's all just a big red blob.
Lived in the city for a few years before moving back to my rural hometown. The night sky without any light pollution was definitely an underrated thing I didn't realize I missed.
The part that wasn't in the title:
astronomers have invented a new term to describe the pain associated with this loss: "noctalgia," meaning "sky grief."
This feels like it comes from the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows. It'd fit well
What a simple, great word to describe it.
Only in the most remote deserts, wilderness areas and oceans can you find a sky as dark as our ancestors knew them.
It varies depending on what country your in, but I don't think people realize how little of a percentage densly populated areas make up of the world. If you're in the US unless you're in a place like NY City a 20-45 min drive can get you to a place zero light minus occasional blinks from cell towers/planes/sattalites - and there will also probably be public land there you can go on for free.
And hey, look, the fact stuff like sattalites are interfering with observing the sky isn't great, but if that sattalite is used for powering agricultural equipment and gathering agricultural data that keeps a billion people from starving to death I'd say that's a worthy trade off.
Like a life saving drug with side effects, there's always trade offs as technology and society advance. And mitigating side effects when possible are great, but I thinks it's important we don't act like the side effects are occurring in a vacuum, and I would rather live now than in the past without the tech we have now.
- if that sattalite is used for powering agricultural equipment and gathering agricultural data that keeps a billion people from starving to death I’d say that’s a worthy trade off.
  Those are not the satellites that are the problem. It's Starlink and other LEO satellites.

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