8mo ago

French pupil’s father on trial for spreading lies that led to teacher’s Islamist beheading

www.theguardian.com

Summary

In October 2020, Samuel Paty, a French teacher, was murdered following a false accusation by a 13-year-old student who claimed he’d shown anti-Muslim bias. The girl had made up the story to cover the fact she had been suspended from school for bad behaviour.

In reality, Paty’s lesson on free speech included optional viewing of Charlie Hebdo cartoons, but he hadn’t excluded anyone. The student’s story triggered a social media campaign led by her father, who, along with others, is now on trial for inciting hatred and connections to Paty’s attacker, an 18-year-old radicalized Chechen.

The school will be named the Samuel Paty School from next year.

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8mo ago

French pupil’s father on trial for spreading lies that led to teacher’s Islamist beheading

www.theguardian.com /world/2024/nov/03/french-pupil-father-samuel-paty-teacher-islamist-beheading-murder-paris

161 comments

jfc when is the human species going to grow up and see religion as the make-believe bullshit that it is
- It will be a glorious day in the name of Humans when we finally dump the dumb shit and act like we control our own actions and future
  
  And then people start raping animals because no more rules
- The funny thing is that most politicians know it is make believe yet they pretend to be religious just to get the votes. It is also a highly effective mechanism to subdue and control the population and manipulate them.
- It wouldn't really matter, there would be another reason for hate.
  
  Organized religion is a really effective way and tool for brainwashing. Of course there are many other tools as well, but religion is probably the best one. That's why it's so popular.
  Just like with guns. If you control and ban firerarms, there are still going to be some murders. But much-much less, because you take away the easiest way of commiting one.
  
  The day you give up fighting your demons is the day your demons win
- If religion did not exist, humans would create it.
  
  That’s… exactly what happened.
- eh, we'd just make up other reasons to hate each other.
- The problem is that it's not just make believe bullshit, but over thousands of years, and being abused repeatedly by those seeking to derive power from it, the original message/intent gets lost entirely.
- As i always say confront the collective not the individual. If you follow your personal believes i dont have a problem with you but dont force it onto others and dont make it overly structured because it will be used to manipulate people.
- Probably never sadly. There's always going to be something people go towards that gives their life meaning, and that will (almost by requirement) create a group that is against them. Even if it isn't "religion" it'll be something like politics or something else, which people don't actually think about and just believe in.
- The most deadly religion isn't even recognized by those who claim to oppose... As long as people bow down to costumed cops, robed judges, and phony politicians... As long as people worship their slaver "fathers" and swear their lives to defend some slaver's pact... There will be zero rationality as we regularly see.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
- Ah yes, so we can murder each other over political ideologies instead
Glad they arent trying to swipe it under the rug and went with the school name change.
- Just fyi, it’s “sweep it under the rug.” Swiping is a doing small motion, used mostly for smart phones and sleight of hand, where as sweeping can be a much larger motion, and often involves a broom or a careless aspect. My husband has the best non-native English I’ve ever heard from someone who didn’t live in an anglophone country as a kid, and he cannot keep those two and swab straight, so I’d consider it a pretty easy mistake to make :)
  
  Yeah i was unsure in the moment tbh. Swish swipe swap sweep swoop
  
  Good bot
Religion of peace
- How old are you to believe peace can achieved by being peaceful?
  
  Do you think they're trying to achieve peace by beheading teachers for showing cartoons??
- Yeah that's mine actually.
  
  You a Baha'i? Cause with what they've done in India and Myanmar, Hinduism and Buddhism are out.
- I don't care who they believe for if they are so upset about a cartoon that they'll kill people and commit other violent acts. Fuck those people and anyone defending that shit.
- Can these people just fuck off with their „religion of peace“ dogwhistle it’s so annoying and obvious
  
  I'm not sure what you think is the dogwhistle, it's directly mocking the claim of Islam being a "religion of peace"
- It's because, as I'm sure you know, all religions have done the same. Speaking like you are is as hateful as what you're claiming to be against. Fuck off.
  Criticism is valid. Criticism against an entire group of people without also giving voice to those in the group against it is fomenting hatred, which you should be against if you're logically consistent (which I'm not accusing you of being because I doubt you are).
  
  Christianity is just as much a festering wound on society. Actions like beheading because of some religious zealousy should not be tolerated.
What I see in this story is a question of whether Brahim Chnina ever was actually in contact with Abdoullakh Anzorov, and if he was if he ever instructed or encouraged violence against Samuel Paty. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they are attempting to use this incident to criminalize free speech, which is exactly what it appears Samuel Paty would not have wanted.
Here in the US, would we want the government locking people up for calling Trump a fascist or even a Nazi, especially if one of the alleged assassination attempts had been successful? If I make a video saying I hate Marjorie Taylor Greene and she's a dangerous sociopath, and the next day they go and kill her, does that mean I should be locked up as well? What if I call Trump the antichrist... afterall, it could be claimed that I participated in a video presenting "false and distorted information intended to arouse hatred."
- The US interpretation of free speech is not what the world considers free speech.
  
  Yeah in may fascist countries you get locked up for saying things like Israel is committing genocide and are behaving like Nazis.
- Frankly, I think this is new territory. We have a new kind of phenomenon: stochastic terrorism, that has specifically as a vehicle the virality of social media. I don't think old absolutes, like the American First Amendment, are useful, sort of like how your Second Amendment was written at a time of muskets, not assault weapons. Social media virality plus algorithms that prioritize engagement at all costs (including via rage) over accuracy are a new thing, causing a new problem. It's right for courts, legal scholars, and lawmakers to be taking on this problem.
  Your concern over balancing the different social goods is of course legitimate and at the centre of this debate.
- "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?"
  Henry II, exercising his right to free speech.
So what kind of blasphemous stuff did this teacher show about jesus? Colonialism? Or was it solely an attack on muslims? This is France so I think I know the answer...
- It was a lesson on free speech. I'm certain there were plenty of talking points and examples but it really isn't the point of this story.
  Muslims will remain as part of that topic for as long as they react the way they do about drawings of their imaginary friend, or anything else they try to impose onto everyone else.
- You are missing the point that the girl who accused the teacher completely made it up, she was not even having a class with this teacher this day and she lied to her father because she was expelled that particular day for bad behaviour.
- FYI the french high school curriculum includes lessons on (de-)colonisation, painting it as unjust and racist.

161 comments