Bernie Sanders to voters skipping presidential election over Israel: ‘Trump is even worse’

I just don't get how people are looking at Harris' stance as being pro-genocide. Biden is the President and historically, foreign policy during the tenure of the President by the Vice President doesn't veer too far off from the President. That said, Harris has absolutely called for investigation into the suffering of civilians in the conflict.

Congress sets the budgetary amount of aid to direct to Israel and the President distributes the money via their diplomatic channels. There are very few options for the President to just suspend funding, which Biden has done twice for weapons under the rules established within 10 USC § 362 (a)(1)

Of the amounts made available to the Department of Defense, none may be used for any training, equipment, or other assistance for a unit of a foreign security force if the Secretary of Defense has credible information that the unit has committed a gross violation of human rights.

But outside that, there's very little the President can do once Congress approves funding and that funding has been signed into law. This is why an independent channel investigation is required and is exactly what Harris has called for. This would allow the the US Government to establish their own inquiry into the human abuses. This would give the required evidence to cancel funding under Title XII authority. But none of that can happen overnight. It's not an easy path to override the will of Congress.

On the opposite side, Trump has indicated that he will absolutely turn a blind eye to the whole thing and allow Israel to determine solely the "best" course of action for their current conflict. Trump has literally stated in his rallies:

From the start, Harris has worked to tie Israel's hand behind its back, demanding an immediate cease-fire, always demanding cease-fire

Trump would not see a cease-fire as a required condition for the on-going conflict.

Harris and Democrats historically have called for a two-state solution. Trump's plan which has been broadly adopted by the Republican party in general would:

• Give Palestinians only about 15% of their original territory
• Jerusalem would become Israel's undivided capitol, meaning all claims by the Palestinians to the eastern half of the city would be tossed out.
• Allow Palestinians to "achieve an independent state" via a means that is not clearly defined in the plan but indicated that Israel would have a final say in that process.
• "No Palestinians or Israelis will be uprooted from their homes" indicating that the territory that Israel has already colonized from their current conflict would become Israel's.
• Would put Israel and Jordan on equal footing for the administration of al-Haram al-Sharif, which will absolutely ignite a conflict.
• Any territory allocated to Palestinians would have to undergo a four year "wait" period, but there's no protections from Israel obtaining that territory if done so during conflict. So Israel could provoke someone to fight them and that would give them justification to take the land during this "four year wait period".

Trump has all but given up completely on a two-state solution. Which means, he's for a one state solution. And people are fooling themselves if they believe that Trump would seek a "peaceful" one state solution. He has told Netanyahu directly, "Just get it done quickly". Now we can play a game as what manner is used to "get it done quickly" means, but only idiots are the one's thinking that doesn't give a tacit nod to ethic cleansing.

I just have no idea what these people who think Harris is a bad idea for Palestinians are actually thinking. And really, I don't think they are thinking at all. You have one solution that is long, stupid, and required because we are a nation of laws. And you have the other solution that is "fuck it, firebomb them all and call it done". It is difficult to imagine that there are truly people this blind and ignorant to this reality. But yet, here we are.

The notion that we might get a 3rd party into office like twenty years from now if we start today, helps nobody if the people we're trying to help are all eradicated over the next four years. Going down this "third road" only ensures an outcome where we are fifteen years too late to help.

im convinced at this point that the "don't vote or you support genocide" thing is a russian troll campaign

Hey look, Bernie right on it. Again.

Single-issue voters are ignorant to begin with, but failing to help stop another Trump presidency isn't the moral high ground. If you're in that group there's no point polishing your halo, because you are shitting on it.

I knew all these single issue fake leftists were full of shit when it was revealed that Trump has been sabotaging peace talks and they weren't immediately outraged by that revelation.

Nah, they all have a political objective, and it doesn't involve peace in the middle east. Their objective is to use genocide as a political wedge to divide the left and get Trump elected.

Where where these people of moral conscience when Bernie had a shot?

it's not like this shitshow sprung up overnight.

The idea that not voting is some form of protest that has material consequences for the ruling class is ahistorical. It took centuries of struggle to attain universal suffrage. The people in power are perfectly happy to have only a small fraction of the demos exerting any political power at all; in fact this is how most civilizations have functioned for the past few thousand years.

I just need anyone who thinks about skipping voting to "Save Palestine" to refer to this graph

Btw, there's a third choice.. it's pulling the Jill Stein lever.

The Jill Stein Lever is made of rubber and not actually connected to anything, so pulling it will accomplish two things "Jack" and "Shit"

Trump is 100x worse. Liberals might be in bed with conservatives on 90% of issues, but fascists actually want to use the military against us.

I upset people when I reject the idea that we are voting to save democracy because I believe the US's two party system is an insult to every ideal that democracy stands for, but I am still voting for Harris. Vote to save our country from fascism. Vote to keep your friends and family from being rounded up for supporting Healthcare for all.

Look, maybe they just don't know how this will play out. By all means let them trade their vote away for teh feelz and directly condemn an entire countries residents to death.

Trust me bro, they care a ton about Palestine, they aren't using civilian deaths to leverage any political bullshit I swear.

Funny how the people who sit on the fence always seem to parrot the current claims right wing media is making

I don't actually believe a lot of these people are undecided

We're dealing with people who think the best way to send a message is to hurt more people and destroy democratic institutions.

They watched the Titanic and thought the people losing their shit and dragging everyone down with them was a good play in a crisis.

At least if the ship goes down the rich quarters will be below water too! That way they'll learn to treat us better next time.

Are people really claiming Trump isn't worse? I think it's more that people think that Harris may be better than Trump (pretty low bar there), but still too bad to vote for. Voting for the lesser evil only goes so far. At some point the lesser evil is still too far from one's own ideals that voting for them isn't an option. Different people will obviously draw that line in different places and if I lived in the USA, I'd probably begrudgingly vote for Harris in the coming election.

Democrats basically slandering anyone who refuses to vote for their candidate as Trump supporters is fucking stupid and will hardly convince anyone to change their minds. Especially when it seems democrats have had nothing to offer the left other than "the other side is worse" for as far back as I can remember. If they want the left's votes, they need to earn them.

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“Socialists” reading this:

I don't support Republicans that includes the chatgpt lady running as one. People told her what the deal was either change course or lose. She decided to embrace Dick Cheney and pledge her undying support for the country doing the Genocide. I still think people should vote and take what route they think will work. The whole Harris pitch has shifted to maybe she will change her mind down the road isn't much better.

You can always leave the country. The biggest leverage you have over your country is you staying there and keep paying taxes. There is always a choice.

Well I'm not voting for him either.

Bernie was against a ceasefire for at least three months. He claimed Israel has the right to defend themselves.

Bernie is responsible for manufacturing the consent that let the genocide continue this long.

Now it is coming back to bite the Democrats. And all Bernie can say is "Trump is worse". Take a hike old man.

Trump is worse because he's all about America first.

"Even worse", eh Bernie. Perhaps don't milquetoast the risk, huh?

He's starting to sound like a Green Party voter.

God forbid Biden/Harris actually change their handling of Israel.

They always expect the millions of voters to change rather than the dozens of politicians to change to align with the voters.

Bernie has fallen off

Too late, old geezer... Time to retire

Democrats have taken the stance that it’s absolutely UNTHINKABLE that they could possibly not support a genocide, instead full bore opting that the other side’s genocide support is somehow worse. Man, fuck these people so hard.

Yes, Trump is even worse. But killing innocent people is still so bad that I am harmed by it being politically acceptable.

If politics is killing innocent people more nicely ('yeah, that's bad, but it just happens') or more nastily ('haw haw stupid children'), I no longer care about politics.