The smart(shit)ification of TVs pisses me off.

You actually can buy quality dumb TVs, but you have to do the legwork and do research on what are often referred to as "commercial displays." I see them everywhere in businesses for ads and showing the menu. They're sometimes a little pricier, but they're usually built a little "beefier" too, as they're expected to deal with more rough usage in like a restaurant context.
However, the other solution is the one you've already mentioned where you never plug the Smart TV into the internet, and instead bypass the "smart" on the TV with your own streaming boxes.
I think as more people realize there is a market for dumb TVs, you'll start to see that market grow more and more until they no longer just "commercial displays." Just gotta get enough people buying them and not buying Smart TVs.
- I think if enough people never gave them Internet access, the manufacturers would start adding in cellular modems to ensure they get the data flowing (that is, data on your viewing habits and sending you ads).
  
  Having worked in this field, I can tell you how it usually operates: You want the most data for the least amount of investment. As soon as your operational costs start to eat into your already thin margins, the equation falls apart.
  Complex solutions designed to capture data from that 1-3% of users who actively avoid it end up costing a lot more money than their data is actually worth. In order to make this particular solution work, you need to make enough money selling whatever tiny amount of data you get from those 1-3% of users to cover the cost of putting a cellular modem in all of your TVs plus the ongoing cost of paying various regional cellular networks to deliver that data to you. You are likely tripling or quadrupling the total cost of your data collection operation and all you have to show for it is a rounding error. And that is before we factor in the fact that these users likely aren't using the built in streaming apps, so the quality of the data you get from them is below average.
  
  That's what they do with CPAP machines.
- I feel like the market is only going to grow in the top end. Audio/videophiles sort of areas with large, high quality, top end feature sets.
  The low end tends to be partly subsidized by the “smart” features. Think TVs that show ads in the menu, or Amazon or Google screens that want you to use their services because it’s “easy” and they’re “right there” so maybe people will subscribe. Couple that with the “feature” that it’s already built in so it saves you an extra box/purchase for people who want cheap TVs, and I don’t see it going away anytime soon.
  
  Exactly this.
  Manufacturers are NOT INTERESTED in selling low-cost dumb TVs when they can sell smart TVs and get long-term returns. They are even willing to sell the TVs at cost because they will monetise later with ads and selling your data.
  Manufacturers don't want you to have a dumb TV, they want everyone to go smart - which is part of why business-targetted dumb panels are priced higher - to disincentivise regular end-customers from buying.
  
  The paradox being that if therr were "premium" smart TVs for people like us - with proper support, privacy, customization options and no crap like ads - we'd probably buy it, and pay a premium for it.
  But that's just too much work for them and they probably don't even realize that kind of market exists.
- They aren't very good though. They are durable, but usually expensive and missing a lot of features you might actually want for that price tag. For example, I've yet to find any OLED "commercial displays" that support Dolby Vision, VRR, and eARC.
  It's way cheaper and easier to just buy the TV you want and not connect it to your wifi.
- Computer monitors should work too, and are more readily available. Just dig through the business oriented monitors and ignore the gaming ones, as cable providers aren't really going to have anything that can take advantage of 60 fps display rates.
  
  My personal experience with computer monitors is that they work great except they always seem to cheap out on speakers if they have built in speakers. Tiny, tinny things whose volume is always way too low.
  I don't mind having separate speakers, but once in a while it would be nice to not need them.
  
  Since I’m going to be skipping the TV part with my HTPC, then why not simply use a computer monitor. Nowadays you can also get a 40+” monitor, and that should be big enough for most people. These things might not even have any speakers, so you might need to plug it into an audio system to make it all work.
- The other option is to buy the smart TV, turn off the networking, and hook it up to a Shield, Apple TV, or Roku. All those box makers are going to support the devices longer than TV manufacturers, and the streaming apps can't ignore them.
  
  so is using something like an Apple TV or Roku box actually more secure than just using the apps directly on the TV?
- Last time I looked for commercial dumb TV, a SHARP was like $4000 for a 65" 1080p or something :-/
  
  $910 for a 65" 4k Samsung display.
  https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/4k-uhd/qe-series/qe65t-series-65-lh65qetelgcxgo/
- This is good to know, thank you for the info. I am getting worried about my increasingly old TV (15+ years) and I do not want a smart TV to replace it.
- However, the other solution is the one you’ve already mentioned where you never plug the Smart TV into the internet, and instead bypass the “smart” on the TV with your own streaming boxes.
  I did this for a long time on my old Vizio TV, but the experience was notably worse with external devices compared to built-in, due to the limited framerate support over HDMI. This led to awkward juddering when e.g. trying to play 23.976fps movies with only 30hz or 60hz output. It also meant built-in video features like motion interpolation did not work effectively.
  I guess this is less of an issue today with VRR support on high-end TVs, but still, a lot of devices you might connect to a TV don't support VRR.
  
  Your streaming box was either not configured properly, or was very low cost.
  The most likely solution is that you need to turn on a feature on your streaming box that sets the output refresh rate to match that of the content you are playing. On Apple TVs it is called "match frame rate". I know Rokus and Android TV devices have similar options.
  Newer TVs can detect when 24 fps content is being delivered in a 60 hz signal and render it to the panel correctly, but this doesn't usually work if you have the selected input set to any low-latency modes ("Game", "PC", etc)
  
  This is one of the downsides of the widespread adoption of HDMI, it has quite a few downsides. Something like display port would be better, but it's far less common. Such is life.

Is it just me or is it really fuckin' easy to not connect your TV to the internet?
I've hated "Smart TVs" for a decade now, but I solved my problem by just buying a set top streaming box (Apple TV, Nvidia Shield, etc) and leaving my TV off my WiFi.
- Some smart tvs's will whine incessantly about not having the internet.
  Thankfully mine (Philips) only bitched about it for about a week, and gave up. Now the only real complaint I have with it is that it takes forever to boot, considering it has to fire up android after it's been off.
  
  LG doesn't do this. They also have the good sense to allow firmware updates via USB. Which is great, because turning on WiFi long enough to install an update fills the home screen with junk.
- Is it just me or is it really fuckin’ easy to not connect your TV to the internet?
  I prefer not to reward corporations by buying equipment with built-in spyware.
  (Also, "easy to not connect" depends on whether the TV nags you, or disables features, or uses any open wi-fi it finds, or includes a cellular or mesh modem.)
  
  You're just giving the same companies even more money when you buy their much more expensive "dumb" digital signage products.
  Nobody's been able to show me a TV that actually does those other things you suggest. If one did, I wouldn't buy it, but I won't base my current pruchasing decisions on hypothetical future products.
- This honestly and embarrassingly didn't occur to me.
  I got a roku for my smart TV because I wanted something with a Jellyfin app. I don't trust roku any more or less than Vizio, but I find I like the idea of removing internet access to the TV directly.
- @beefcat
  How long until they mesh with nearby stuff the way Amazon/Ring does?
  @chahk
- Yeah they can try and push as much BS as they want but in the end I’m never using their software and always using a shield
  
  Isn't it the Shield that introduced ads on the homescreen since a few years?

Back in 2019 I wanted a nice LED screen with high resistance to screen burn but the only economic option was a Samsung Smart TV.
I actually ended up getting it, ordering a custom mount for the ARM Chip, and using an input method on the chip that makes it run Java natively so that I could make the Smart TV drop it's firmware onto a USB and from there I could modify it, since it was just running a version of Linux.
So that's the story of how I un-smarted my TV. Get fucked, Samsung.
- What a fucking ridiculous workaround that's completely unavailable to the regular consumer...fuck Samsung (and the industry in general) for this approach.
  
  Well, now that the community has had a few years to reverse engineer it I assume there are a lot of better and easier ways to replace the firmware with an open source quick fix. So, it's not like my way is the only way. It was just necessary at the time. In fact, the community worked very fast to find a way to hack these "System on a Chip" architectures since the ARM chips were first released. They're used in Macs, phones, TVs etc and have a very high power efficiency, but it is a very clear design choice to make them extremely difficult for the user to access and customize.

all cars are headed there too.. so very soon you won't be able to get news or transportation without someone else's permission..
- Please drink a confirmation mountain dew to activate your air conditioner. Sorry, we didn't hear the sound of the can opening, please open another where the microphone can hear it. Sorry, our servers are down, we apologize for any inconvenience this may be causing. Sorry, getting your family out of the vehicle is an optional feature which you have not subscribed to, please say "Do the Dew" to get temporary access to the friends and family doors. Sorry, I didn't get that, please say "Do the Dew". Sorry, I still didn't get that, please call customer service at 1800-luv-cars to give your ad consumer confirmation phrase to a customer service representative.
- I mean you have technically always needed a drivers license to drive which I would classify as "needing someone else's permission."
  The bus on the other hand?
  
  need permisson for the bus too. "exact change only!!"
  
  I mean you have technically always needed a drivers license to drive
  No you don't. They still work even if you don't have one.
  Hell, the keys turn in the ignition even if you're drunk.
  
  it sounds like you've already surrendered your right to transportation.. that license is something that i hold myself to and others.. that's the way citizenship works.. i don't ask for permission.. i agree to abide by minimum functional requirements because i expect others to as well, and carry proof.. you are confused..
  if you think getting your driver's license is "asking the government for permission" you are already a slave

Smart devices are basically data sniffers scooping up any info about you and your family, your habits,. They watch network traffic, listen to your conversations, and record video,. I'll stick to dumb devices thanks.
- Oh yeah I put my meat in your fridges mom

Sony Bravia models now give you an option to make it a dumb TV as part of the out of the box experience. It’s the first question they ask you when you power it on.
- Wait, really? Is this also the case for older models? I have one but it's already a few years old. 🤔
  
  My X950H does not give the option (although there is a hidden dev/“pro mode” that allows you to turn it into a dumb screen I think) but my newer A80J model does give the OOTB option to disable the smart features.
  The Bravias with Google TV are at the absolute limit of what I will tolerate from a smart TV. Suggestions/tailored stuff on the Home Screen, but no invasive ads. Anything further and I’d turn them into dumb TVs and use an Apple TV or Google TV dongle instead.

I got a display signage TV. Totally dumb. The only app it has is YouTube and that's optional. I don't even have the internet hooked up to it. Works fine for gaming and occasionally streaming via other devices.
- Where do you even get something like that?
  
  I got mine through Amazon. Samsung makes the cheapest ones I've found. Just search for something like "samsung commercial TV". They're generally a little more expensive than your ad/data harvesting-supported TVs but if you value your privacy and longevity of your devices, it's worth it.

I have solved this by not buying a TV in the last two decades. I just own projectors. Larger screen, cheaper, no "smart" nonsense. Depending on mounting, essentially invisible when not in use and not a large black rectangle in your living room. Do recommend.
- How dark do rooms need to be for them to work? Are there issues with shared spaces where someone might want a well lit workspace?
  
  I also want to know this
  
  Having the sun shine through a large window is an issue, but is also an issue for a good picture on normal TVs. Picture quality with protectors is better when the room is darker (increases contrast), but a normally lit room is just fine. It also depends on how and what you're watching. I generally do darken the room when I'm actively watching a movie, but no need for that when putting something on you're just half watching. You can still tell just fine what's going on even in a bright room, it just looks a bit washed out.
  It also depends on the brightness/class of the projector of course, and on the screen. Don't underestimate the visual difference a screen makes. Both having any screen over just projecting onto a white wall, and a great screen over a cheap ransom one.
  The core issue is that a projector uses throwing light as bright, and not throwing light as dark. If your surface (screen or wall) is rather white and illuminated without the projector actually projecting light into it, that is as dark as a black part of the picture could possibly be. There are screens that are reflective, but more gray than white, those help with that, too.
  I would say a normally lit room (with artificial light in the evening for example) is fine to use a projector. "Well lit workspace" really depends on you're definition. For my definition of "well lit" it wouldn't be ideal, but I've just installed like 49000 lumens of illumination into my 3.5 x 3.5 meter workshop, cause I like to see what I'm doing and life is too short for bad lighting.
- My last projector came with a low power android TV stick. I thought that was pretty cool, even knowing that I'd never use it. That means the smart TV features are there for the people that want them and can literally be thrown in the garbage for those that don't.

I just run an HDMI from my computer…
- I think you might have AngrilyDoublePosted lol
- Yes. IMO if you want a smart tv just connect your laptop or computer to it. I'll never buy a "smart" tv

Yep, they're horrible. I always disable internet on them, uninstall any apps I can, and generally do what I can to avoid using the built-in smart TV, but I shouldn't have to do this, its unfortunate and sucks to deal with. They just take advantage of consumers who don't know better, wish the TV market wasn't like this. :/

I'll probably need to buy a new TV in a year or two. I read there are some ways to flash custom firmware on it.
- Just get a monitor. The only real difference between a monitor and a TV these says is the lack of a speaker, and "smart" stuff. But TV speakers suck anyways so you'd be better off using a soundbar regardless.
  
  I haven't seen >40" monitors at a reasonable price though compared to TVs
  Edit: also, there's usually not any audio output to an amplifier on monitors.
  
  Can you get monitors in 50 inch these days though? Then this would be my route as well once my current dumb TV dies

Just wanted to say same. I have used a Linux box as my Media Center and Home Server since 2008. Also have a chomecast dongle so I can steam from Android and Android apps. Not sure what else one needs.
Seems to me what one wants wants really is mostly a browser and ability to stream stuff from apps on your phone. Since the Linux box is a Media Center and Server it also has a lot of features a Smart TV would not have. Just do not see the value of a Smart TV.
- I just saw a link to this
  https://github.com/MayaPosch/NymphCast
  Perhaps your l8nux can cast as well?

Pro Tip: Buy a Computer Monitor e.g. 4k 34 inch
they don’t have any smart tv shit, but you need to buy some extra for the audio
- that's a lot more money for a smaller screen, though. 32" is a big monitor sitting in front of a desk, but a small TV if you're on a couch.
  
  you can buy "gaming" monitors that are 48" big for example https://x-kom.de/653504-gigabyte-aorus-fo48u-475-zoll-4k-gaming-monitor-hdmi-21dpusb-c-120hz-hdr-oled (caution! german website)
  or this one: https://www.lg.com/de/monitore/lg-48gq900-b
  Idk at which point they are starting to implement some kind of "smart tv"
- Many features that come with TVs these days are not available on monitors. For example "filmmaker mode"
  
  Monitors are effectively always in 'filmmaker mode', as they don't do frame interpolation and colour grading and over-scanning and all the stuff that filmmaker mode disables.

Actually I think a lot of people do upgrade their TVs somewhat often, as stupid as that is. I will be clinging to my dumb TV for dear life as long as possible, but I feel like people are very consumerist these days. TVs have gotten cheap enough that they feel able to.
It goes without saying that no one should have to buy a new TV because there is a bunch of trashy software on it, but I'm sure it's already happened enough to incentivise these assholes' bad behavior

the smartshitification of TVs is annoying, and i too hate being tracked by every device i use. That said, the incredible value of these TVs can't be overstated. Most people can't or won't spend more than $500 on a TV, so most people would still be using 1080p displays if it wasn't for this phenomenon, but now EVERYONE gets to have a 4k TV because the price is partially subsidized by all those ads you're seeing.
I think it's probably a net negative for society overall, but just wanted to point out that there is an upside to all those ads.
- I found this comment funny because I'm still using 1080p TVs in the house. Mostly because after we got them I cut the cord and couldn't even remotely stay under the Comcast cap with 4k. Even after I moved on to T-Mobile home internet, uncapped for now, I haven't upgraded because there really hasn't been a pressing need. Hell, cable and streaming don't actually deliver 1080p, it usually is 720p max. I have no idea if the 4k options actually broadcast in 4k vs a smaller resolution.
  
  honestly you're playing it smart. I can't speak to cable, but you are right that streaming apps don't exactly justify the bump in resolution. The image they spit out to your screen is 4K, but the compression required to stream in 4K means that most of the added details are just crushed by the format. So ironically, you don't really benefit from 4K unless you use Blurays, at which point you don't really need any of the "smart" features of your 4K tv.

Samsung commercial displays don't have any smart features, I think.
They don't come with a stand.
https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/4k-uhd/qe-series/qet-series-43-lh43qetelgcxza/
- I'd much rather have a VESA mount than a stand. VESA stands are easy to find and cheap, and if you want to wall mount or get a fancier stand that is an option.
- The specs on those QET models don't look great. 300 nits max brightness? That can't be right. Aren't they designed to be in brightly lit areas like inside stores?

As a lot of people here, I did the same, bought the smart TV, it needed internet for firmware upgrade, and once it had started and did not ask for my inputs or whatever, I selected the HDMI1 as startup, plugged a Chromecast. Then went into the TV menu to forget the network settings on the TV. It's just a monitor used to cast Netflix, Disney, Plex, Prime, etc.
- How is plugging in a Chromecast any different than using the same software built into a Google TV?
  
  As the owner of original $500 Sony NSX-32GT1 TV from 2010, I can tell you exactly how different it is. Its UI wasn't exactly a snappy experience to begin with, but it's gotten even more sluggish over the years until everything stopped working due to being EOL. The OS on it has been unsupported since around 2016, so it's stuck on ancient Android TV version. Most apps (even built-in ones like YouTube) stopped working a few year later, and cannot be updated.
  Sure, a $50 Chromecast will eventually suffer from the same problems, but I can replace it 10 times for the same amount of money while keeping my TV because its 32-inch 720p panel still displays content just fine.
  
  I don't know for a Google TV, but others brands have microphone and ads in their builtin ...

I just never entered my Wifi details into my smart TV. I only use the HDMI inputs on it anyway, so it behaves like a dumb one. It's a RCA TV from Walmart, if anyone is wondering.

I'm really happy that I got to skip the whole smart TV stuff by being a projector guy. They are still dumb as rocks for the most part.
My HTPC is an Odroid, so all is well in that department as well.
- Thanks for this info. One day I will buy a projector. They have seemed to be superior and cheaper overall than most TVs now. This is just another tick mark in their favor.
- How well does this work? Like is glare / not being able to see an issue? How much of the wall color shows through, or do you have to have a special screen?
  
  How well does this work?
  Essentially you trade some contrast and color for a much bigger screen size. If you can live with that they are incredible.
  Like is glare / not being able to see an issue?
  Generally, you want to use a projector in a light controlled room. If you cannot block out most sunlight/ambient light, it might not be feasible in that room.
  As you approach more expensive projectors (like 3000/5000$+) you can get a sufficient picture in a bright room but the contrast will be severely lacking - good enough to watch some soccer but not something you want to watch your new 4k blu-ray on. The darkest possible black in a projector picture will always be the remaining ambient light in your room. The darker you can get your light levels, the better.
  How much of the wall color shows through, or do you have to have a special screen?
  While you can project directly onto the wall I would recommend a projector screen, even a cheap one will do. I project onto a regular 200$ white projector screen and can't complain even after years of usage. Since light produced by the projector bounces of your walls, it's recommended to black out the surroundings of your screen, even painting the wall behind the screen black/gray will immensely increase the contrast of your image.
- My worst AV mistake was replacing an old CRT with a Samsung "smart" TV.
  That thing lost so many features through OTA updates that could not be disabled, to the extent where the boot-up screen that showed all the features just getting emptier as the years went by. I believe now it just shows a TV guide icon and a Miracast icon lol... ended up just switching off the WiFi on it.
  I only buy projectors now. Still have one dumb LG tv still kicking though - parents were going to throw out, but I managed to fix a minor issue it had with the LCD panel
- do you have any screen and/or projector recommendations? i will be moving soon and will more than likely end up selling my smart TV. was thinking to buy another TV but reading your comment has me more inclined to go to the projector side.
  
  In general, https://www.projectorcentral.com/ always has solid up to date recommendations for different price brackets.
  Depending on where you can place it, you might want a short throw or ultra short throw projector. Be careful with the ultra short throw projectors ("Laser TV"). Many of them are starting to introduce smart TV features since they are becoming more mainstream. Try to stick with known projector companies like Optoma, BenQ, Sony, Epson and JVC.
  As for the screen, don't worry to much about it. Get a white screen without any gain to avoid hot spots or dim pictures. Make sure to max out the possible size for the location, you will regret it later if you don't. If you can, get a screen with a solid aluminium/steel frame and mount it on a wall. Do not bother with cheap pull down screens, they will start to show creases and folds within the first years.

Don't connect it to the network. Sadly best you can do.

I have some practical annoyances, most surrounding multiple remotes and the clunkiness of it. I have two TVs in my house: a Samsung smart TV from 2019 and a Hisense Google TV I purchased earlier this year. The Google interface is not the most responsive, but it packs in all of the stuff I would want. Android is the most supported platform for apps. Samsung's OS has good app support, but open source projects and more niche apps aren't there. I think there is a nebula app now, but for a while there wasn't, for instance. So, I bought one of the Chromecast with Google TV sticks to bridge the gap. It works well most of the time, but unlike the Hisense, it doesn't support airplay. So if someone airplays, you get kicked back to the native OS and have to use the native remote. It's possible to configure the Chromecast to use the native remote, except the home button doesn't map, it is the home menu for the native OS. So it's just kinda clunky. I do think newer Google tvs with airplay built in (varies by brand) are going in the right direction here. If you're concerned about privacy, they're still gonna be a nightmare though.
- multiple remotes
  I have a Logitech Harmony Ultimate remote with Hub. It was the best thing ever for me, because in my living room setup I have the TV, A/V receiver, Nvidia Shield TV for streaming, and an Xbox Series X for my kids and occasional BR/DVD movies. With programmable activity buttons, a single tap on the remote turns on the appropriate devices, switches them to the correct inputs, and provides appropriate controls. Tap another activity, and it turns on devices that are required, turns off the ones not in use, and switches controls to the proper device.
  Unfortunately Logitech discontinued the Harmony line. It's only a matter of time before they take down the servers that host device databases and allow you to reprogram the remotes. I've been looking into replacements, but there aren't many that have feature parity with Harmony.
  
  Seems the best way is with IR blasters and learning remotes. There is software for PCs/Macs that will let you capture the IR remote functions, then you can assign that to a "smart/learning" remote to relay those signals. Not nearly as easy as the Logitech setup, and I'm dreading the day the Harmony remotes stop working.

I finally looked in the settings and found I can set my roku tv to not start in the smart menu and it is immediately better for me.

I'm still rocking the original Shield TV that I got in 2017. It's still as new. They added ads to the UI a while back now, but I just installed a custom launcher. Works great.
- One of the best devices I've ever bought. I got it used for 100 bucks in 2018. I Don't even play games on it anymore, but it's still the best device for streaming in the house.
- Which launcher did you install?
  
  Pretty sure it's Wolf Launcher - Install guide here at troypoint
- I had the Shield TV Pro 2015 version that I upgraded with an SSD. I wasn't planning on replacing it, but it died a few months ago so I upgraded to the 2019 version.

I use a 32" 60Hz monitor That's the way to go Level One Techs covered this due to those same reasons Wendel's mom's Smart TV ran out of storage for the OS Updates and some apps upgraded beyond working on the old OS It's like cell phones So, I went with a large cheap monitor on sale and stream from my PC or Roku stick It's basically built-in obsolescence
- 32" is pretty small for a living room TV. I'd wager most are at least 40 or more.

I'm looking to buy a new TV soon ish and I'm really afraid of ending up with something with a ton of pre installed bloatware, simply because that's the industry standard nowadays. If anyone has any tips for "dumb" TVs in the ~€600/$650 price range I'd love to hear them. I have a chromecast for streaming and it works fine, so I'm really just looking to buy a large screen without bloatware, no Internet connection required, etc. That's what my current ~10 year old TV does and tbh I just want the same thing but better picture quality.
- What you want to look for is a "digital signage display" or "commercial display" like this one. These are basically just large monitors. They generally have really good display quality because they're intended to make products look good, and near-bulletproof electronics because they're intended to be on all day. Because of this and not being subsidized by bloatware they tend to cost more than smart TVs of the same size.
  
  That's a great tip thank you!
- I prefer Roku because it's pretty trivial to block their ads and tracking, and I can add and remove channels and features pretty easily. Now if they started forcing me to have certain channels that would change. Plus you can use it as a dumb TV without connecting it to the Internet, and even set it to use an HDMI in by default so you never see the OS.
  
  set it to use an HDMI in by default so you never see the OS
  How long do you figure we have before manufacturers remove this functionality?
- I too am in the market for a new tv. I’ve had my 60 inch plasma tv from Samsung for going on 12 years. I dropped a pretty penny on it from Best Buy at the time and haven’t had any problems with it at all for over a decade!
  Only in the last year or so I’ve started having issues with turning it on if it was just turned off. Like it’s plasma so I’ve always been super careful of burn in of images. So I press pause on whatever I’m watching on the Roku streamer connected by HDMI. Then I turn off the tv itself. If say I’m running to the bathroom, when I get back and attempt to turn on the tv it’ll make the red power light blink randomly several times over and over… but it won’t initiate the start up of the screen…
  I’ve tried lots of things… unplugged the tv and waited about 10-15 seconds and plugged it back in then pressed the power on the remote and it’ll usually come back on with the volume all the way back to “1” which stinks… but it still “works”…
  I’m willing to pay a good amount for a plasma adjacent/similar tv just because of the luck I’ve had with this current tv. It makes more sense to me to invest in a really great tv now, as opposed to replacing several less great tv’s when they inevitably break down..
  I’ve been looking around, and obviously they’ve stopped producing Plasma tvs now… so I’m still searching for a plasma like tv that I want…
- I commented above but this part may help:
  Thinking more about it using eBay’s boolean search options may have helped drill down to good choices.

I was never so glad I'd bought a normal telly as the week I spent in a rental with a "smart" one.

Look at commercial TVs, those used by businesses. Some even come with a RPi slot.

I don't think I'll ever need anything like a streaming box or whatever. I'm fine with the computer monitor I have right now, which is a bit wider then an early 2000's CRT. Anything I stream is done through Firefox with NoScript and Origin to block the bullshit. I'm not entirely sure why anyone uses streaming boxes and whatnot when you can just do the same thing, but safer and cheaper on a desktop. Maybe so you can more easily watch stuff with people in the same room? Find a use for that couch? ¯(ツ)_/¯
- Many streaming services don't offer content at the same quality when played from a PC vs something like an Nvidia Shield, and the 4k upscaler on the Shield 2019 is very good. I can understand if these features aren't things you care about, but if you have a modern 4k OLED and you want to take advantage of 4k HDR Dolby Vision content from various providers, doing that from a PC will prove difficult. Also, my partner is not very tech-savvy and I need to keep the TV usable for them, so running an HTPC is kinda out of the question for me, even if it had feature parity.
- I use a very old (circa ~2010), very underpowered (6Gb ram because one slot is dead) optiplex 760 with a DP to HDMI adapter to watch movies and live sports on a projector.
  I can watch my pirate streamed movie or sports in one window and do other nerd stuff in another no problem.
  Running Linux mint-xfce with Firefox, ublock, and containers.
  Internet is acquired by tethering one of my old android phones running dnscrypt-proxy and tor (invisible pro), with KDE connect for remote control.
- Agreed. Chromecast and Roku are just as bad as the shit built into the TV. Proprietary boxes of DRM and adware the lot of them. The only thing worth streaming from is a PC or maybe a rooted Android box.
  
  Oh, i dunno... my chromecast for tv is holding up okay, and i don't get advertisements in it's main ui.
  My 2013 LG lcd is doing okay although i brole a bunch of the dots. I will have to replace it soon, and there aren't any non smart units available. I guess i'll gave to block the traffic.
- An Amazon Fire Stick is far smaller, much quieter, draws less power and is simpler to use than a general-purpose PC.
  Plus, if I'm using a PC I'd probably only use Linux, so I'd have to deal with lower quality streams because DRM... so overall the experience would be worse.
  Using a more 'normie' Windows box as a streaming box could work, but that doesn't solve the noise(!) and power draw issues, that feels like a compromise rather than a choice.
  I've recently bought a Fire Stick and don't regret it one bit. It's doesn't fell janky and doesn't have ads as far as I can tell. The provided remote inclues an IR emitter than can turn the TV on/off and change volume (why isn't this provided by HDMI itself is beyond me), and it's much faster than any smart tv so you can watch content without having to wait
  
  I forget about the DRM bullshit Linux needs to deal with. As GabeN says, paraphrasing "piracy is a service problem."
  Stremio + Torrentio + a debrid service is easier and better than bouncing between different online subscription services.

Still using a 14 year old Panasonic plasma TV in the living room and I dread the day that I have to replace it.

I run a DNS server on a raspberry pi and block only those domains where LG gets ads and promoted content from. I can then have a clean and responsive interface while services like Netflix still work.
- I recommend you to also make sure to configure your router so no other device but your pihole can make DNS requests. some devices bypass your DHCP settings and use custom DNS servers.
  
  This was already done. The only device able to make outbound DNS connections is the raspberry pi. For IPv4 and IPv6.

I use pi-hole to block tracking.
- The best way to handle those devices would be to use some rules on the router or firewall to intercept all traffic to port 53 and give it to the Pi-hole DNS.

Most digital signage displays are 'dumb' tvs
- yes, but they also tend to have crappy specs compared to 'good' TVs.

My Samsung Tv from 2013 appreciates this post.
I unfortunately am using a firetv 2nd gen with it and it's horrendous. I also use a xiomi mi stick,which is also horrendous (shitty hardware).
I want dumb but good panels,no smart features please. Does anything like this even exist anymore?
- It does, but they're mostly computer monitors. You can use a computer monitor as a TV for streaming media; the catch is most of them don't have internal speakers or ATSC/DVB/etc. tuners for over-the-air TV.
  Also, have you tried the Apple TV? It's a set-top box that isn't horrendous, and it only phones home for software updates + optional integration with Apple's cloud services (iCloud). It doesn't spy on its users.

I have a 720p Sony Bravia from 2008. It has a coaxial input. I can still play my retro consoles on it.
I hope it never dies. I'll do whatever I can to keep it for as long as I can. Even if it means paying the equivalent of a new TV in repairs.
- My biggest regret was getting rid of a perfectly good portable CRT TV that would have been ideal for pre-7th generation gaming, just as they stopped making good quality CRTs.

I have an older model of this one: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-led-full-hd-tv/6530085.p?skuId=6530085
Added a refurb 2.1 sound bar for better sound.
edit - It was not easy find this. As I wasn't in a hurry at the time I took a while to find an acceptable model. Thinking more about it using eBay's boolean search options may have helped drill down to good choices.

It’s all about supply and demand, and the customers have demanded smarter TVs. In this way capitalism drives innovation. Who knows, a couple years from now TVs will likely be twice or three times as smart as they are now!
- Who knows, a couple years from now TVs will likely be twice or three times as smart as they are now!
  Don't scare me like that!
  
  AI labeled TVs will slowly indoctrinate you into ideologies you would have scoffed at ten years ago. And you won't even notice it.

So buying a smart TV and connecting it with streaming box/stick for accessing streaming services does seem to be the best solution.

I have an LG c1 and the apps and start page dont bother me too much. The remote gives you easy quick launch options and I just immediately boot into my PC anyway and then use the remotes quick launch features to hop into the streaming apps I used to use(because DRM makes browser streaming a hassle especially on linux).
My beef with my smart tv is that basic settings are not hidden behind sub menus under submenus under submenus. Want to blank my screen? Adjust some picture settings a smidge? Audio stuff? Best to google it cause stuff that used to be front and center on my old tvs is either missing or buried deep down.
I dont think they charge extra for the smartness either. A 55 inch 4k tcl tv can be had for under $500, and those have roku cooked in. MY c1 was all about the hardware as well.

Same here. I use my TV as a glorified monitor with a ton of HDMI ports. All smart features are basically non-existant to me. I disable all picture "quality improvement" shit (that typically introduces latency). Everything else is then handled by the attached smart devices that I can exchange or upgrade however I want.
When I look for a new TV, I actually still prefer going to the store, because the one most important aspect for me is input latency. I absolutely hate hitting a button on the remote and then having a delay of a second or so until it actually reacts to it. So this is something I need to try in person: if I hit a button, how fast do I get feedback? If it's not instant, the TV is out of the question.
- I am using my TV as a monitor, it starts on HDMI1, my Chromecast. I never use the remote of the TV, it's plugged on my good old 5.1 setup for sound. You are using the TV remote for what?
  
  For picture options and to switch between inputs.

I get the concern with bloatwear but it's never been a concern for me with a TV. I simply use Roku and it's functioned extremely well. I also don't connect my TV to the internet for the most part. It's literally as simple as that. It's not like my TV is running out of storage.

I'm about to get rid of my ageing "dumb" TV and not replace it. Everything comes in to my laptop now, so any monitor and set of speakers to plug it in to will do.
My prediction is that this is going to be the end of the line for TVs as stand-alone hardware - just like most people don't really have stand-alone Hi-Fi systems any more.
- I do it the other way, my laptop and PC are HDMI into giant TVs, and wired to the sound system.

I made the mistake of using the LG smart tv features for like 2 years. I set up a pihole to block ads and eventually WebOS just quit working because ads and trackers did t work anymore. I factory reset the tv and switched over to a Roku stick. That worked well for nearly 4 years. Now I’m on a $19 ONN 4k streaming stick from Walmart. It’s actually kinda beef for what it is. Made by Asus and flashed LineageOS on it. Audio drops out and requires a reboot every few days. I want to move to a Nvidia shield but haven’t had the funds for it because I’m in a kitchen remodel.
- I've got an nvidia shield but if you're looking for cheap and good, google chromecasts are good these days. I managed to get one for free with an offer too.
  
  Ive never used a chromecast. Can they be flashed and de-googled?
  I like Android overall, but I try and avoid as much google as I possibly can.
- If you didn't like ads on your LG, why would you want a shield?
  
  Flash a stripped down rom like LineageOS with minimal google services. De-crappify it. They are well supported and documented on XDA.

I dont know how anyone could put up with ads on their tv ui I actively avoid all platforms that force ads I quit playing xbox years ago when they started putting ads on the dashboard quit watching tv because of ads about 12 years ago. They need us more than we need them.

For anyone who doesn’t necessarily care about data collection and accepts that it’ll happen to some degree and you can’t escape it, and wants an easy experience without ad’s just remember to never connect your TV to the internet and get an Apple TV 4K for $150. The software isn’t jank like some android options, it isn’t sluggish, and you only need the one remote unless you’re changing inputs. I literally never see or interact with the menu of my smart TV and it’s great.
- Why would you rather have Apple have your data than LG/Sony/Samsung?
  
  Considering that I have an iPhone, yes.

I am using a Sony TV that is not connected to the Internet and i stream stuff using a PS4. TV does not complain. Does anyone know if PlayStation is analyzing the data the same way Samsung does for example? So far there is no adds in PlayStation.
- Not anymore. The PS3 would tell everyone on the PSN what you were doing at the time, including running streaming apps. They put a stop to that, and improved the PSN ID privacy settings, on the PS4 and PS5.
- If they can, they probably are.

Smart TVs in general suck but I'm getting a lot of mileage of my TCL Google TV, firmly in spite of what is intended, by sideloading apps.
Privacy and security-wise it's probably terrible but I'm just tired of having to think about it.

Well, considering that even the Shield got ads after some updates, I don't think there's escape.
- @Templa
  A complete shame. I installed a custom launcher (wolf launcher) and it got rid of all ads. Clean screen again.
- apple tv
  
  Is apple TV able to run emulators and steam link?

You can't find a decent quality standard TV? Why?
- Have you tried in the past few years? They basically don't exist anymore in the consumer space.
  
  You can find fairly large computer monitors, and some monitors have built in speakers. That's about the best you can do.
  
  Yes I have and I can go to my local supermarket and get a conventional LCD with no "smart" function.
  I won't be buying a brand name most probably but I can buy a conventional LCD tv.

The only part about smart TVs I like is apps and Internet access so I can view things without having any external devices providing output.
All the ads, and other bullshit can fuck off. I just want a functional display, God damn it.

I have an old TV on it's last legs. Insignia makes dumb TVs. Does anyone have experience with those? I haven't had luck with Insignia in the past.

So my wife uses some niche TV apps like weverse, which is available on Samsung TVs. Which of the media players (chromecast, appletv, roku, firestick etc.) have the most number of apps covered?
- I have a Chromecast (/Google TV, their branding is a mess) and Apple TV, and have used Rokus family members have. In my experience chromecast has the best app selection, it's just running a modified version of android. It does require specific tv versions of apps, but the standards are as low as the rest of the google play store for better and worse, so anything you can get on an android phone that you'd want on a tv is probably on there. It also (with a bit of trouble) allows sideloading, and I've put some github projects on there like SmartTubeNext (ad-free youtube with a better UI).
  
  An android based device does makes sense. Thanks! I'll look into getting a chromecast.