2y ago

The Fediverse is Not The Future of The Internet.

uselessauth.btw.so [Opinion] Why The Fediverse is Not The Future of The Internet. | uselessauth

Twitter and Reddit. Arguably the biggest sources of fresh and current information at all. You want to know what is going on <em>right now</em>? Go visit one of the two and you’ll be up to speed in a matter of minutes.

I don't think the Fediverse will become mainstream. But I'm actually happy about that. And so should you.

96 comments

Fewer people, fewer idiots. I'm glad that people here are actually sane.
- I’m glad that people here are actually sane.
  Speak for yourself.
  
  I am ALL actually sane on this blessed day
  
  Wait a minute....
  
  You're not the boss of me.
- Most people, I've definitely seen some schizo posts but they are pretty easy to avoid since they let their freak flag fly.
- I want the place to be just big enough that the real niche communities (mostly gaming) start blooming. After that, though, I'm good.
- Eh, feels mostly the same to me. Some people didn't like the meme I posted and accused me of wanting to murder my neighbors.
  
  sounds like a normal Saturday, nothing to worry about
  
  This didn't happen a month ago. More users, more idiots.
- It's quite telling that by having a more 'complicated' sign up process and 'how-things-work' around here is able to keep idiots off the Fediverse (for now)
  And I appreciate this, which means as a potential user I need to do my own background research, look around at different sources of information, lurk for a bit, before committing to a platform. And this in and of itself, for me at least, gives me a better appreciation of the 'verse' and how I can contribute to it.
  From the article "The Fediverse is not that. It’s kind of… different. I mean, the very first thing you get asked when signing up for a Fediverse platform is “Which Instance?”. The signup process in the Fediverse is more complicated than people are used to."
  A counter example to this 'barrier of entry' would be threads. Super easy to join, making it almost 'stupid' not to join if you're already on IG and using Twitter, without understanding what it offers besides simply being an alternative to threads (this is where I was at, could not outweigh the cons vs twitter, thus did not join)
- I like it too honestly. It reminds me of stories about how Usenet used to be before the Eternal September.
- I have not found that too be true. In fact I am getting more negative replies here than Reddit for similar comments. Like I just had one linking me to the whataboutism definition, but my comment they were replying too was the opposite. Unsure if a dumb bot triggered on a keyword or a person who didn’t understand the definition they sent. Been lots of little micro aggressions here. Wonder if the crowd or AI a grouping is using to sour the experience.
  
  Go back to Reddit. I read through your post and you are a snowflake. I believe you’re looking for an echo chamber, which hopefully will not be found here.
  
  I really think the typical Lemmy user falls into a lot of the same trappings as the typical Reddit user. It’s especially obvious on political or otherwise emotionally charged topics. In the end it doesn’t really matter if you are downvoted or not, it’s just an imaginary number.
  But it’s definitely organic, not trolls or bots; just an inevitability of online spaces

I agree with much of the article but.. Dude, go on holiday. Billionaires and corporations make up the vast majority of emissions that are driving climate change. See the world before the rich end up destroying what's left of it. You're allowed to enjoy yourself.
- I know all that but I honestly don't need to. Most of my time is spent inside anyway. Sometimes I take the train and spend a weekend some place nice but that really is all I need.
- Probably on a per capita basis but we are all contributing to climate change (the majority of it): https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data
  Do you have a source?
- And we have to stop thinking vacations and planes are the same things. I've gone to awesome vacation places by train, car and even boat. You can still take vacations without it being a problem for the environment, just don't take the plane

A small reminder that clickbaity titles like this work against the author's view for all the people who read just the title and scroll further. (And they're not to blame. You can't read everything)
TL;DR of the article:
Fall of Twitter and Reddit helped the Fediverse grow. Most users don't know or care how Federation works and don't realise the necessity of donations. Fediverse either remains niche or becomes mainstream, the future is not set in stone.
- That is a fair point, I'll keep that in mind going forward, thank you
  Edit: I do want to add that skimming the title and voting based off of that is not how it should work. I would at least scroll to the conclusion, even though this article admittedly doesn't really have one. Going forward I will make a clearly marked conclusion and summarize my pov better in the title to avoid confusion.
  
  Regarding voting, of course, it should be done after familiarizing oneself with the post to some degree greater than the title.
  I meant changing people's minds. While just the title won't convince people to think a certain way, it will remain in their minds as one of many opinions on the topic they encountered. And it's a shame if that opinion is the opposite of what the author has in mind.

There's a sweet spot, right? Popular enough to be viable; not so popular that the quality decreases.
- Yes. I'm already noticing a lot more rude and immature people as the number of users grow.
  
  I feel this is just a natural step in a new, growing platform/community.
  Initially there is a smaller userbase tending to be more like minded/interested, and people will mostly behave.
  As some get more comfortable and as more users join there will be a point where conflicting views and interests congregate while there may still be lacking people and tools to moderate the discussion, in addition to there being just the amount of content that it is difficult for bad faith content to be buried.
  I think a lot of the fediverse is here now, where users are exposed to other users and content with either differing views or straight up intentional bad faith, whereas they previously were in heavily moderated communities or was only exposed to their section of content. Sometimes this might lead to good discussions, while other times it will devolve into rudeness or spite (especially with bad faith parties)
  Eventually the amount of content may grow so that these incidents will be harder to notice, and/or more users will also bring more people and tools to aid in moderating said users and content
  
  This is where the system of Favorite and Reduce comes in. Same concept on Reddit with upvotes and downvotes. Hopefully the community will help to filter out the noise, but again, history tends to repeat itself.
  
  I've noticed some transphobia and homophobia recently too (usually from lemmy.world accounts 👀)

Honestly, a pretty valid take, all things considered. I can see why many people would find the headline outrageous, but reading through the article, I think it's a message that a lot of people do need to hear. And I think everyone should read what OP is conveying before jumping to conclusions.
I've seen people on Lemmy with mixed opinions on how Lemmy and the Fediverse should be treated. Some want to expand Lemmy and siphon off as many users from Reddit, while others want to keep the gates tight. Some want Lemmy to remain a small, niche community for enthusiasts, while others want the Fediverse to be a new paradigm for the maintstream internet.
I agree, that Fediverse platforms built up with donations and little to no profit incentive will likely remain dwarfed compared to the tech giants that can afford to give the public the high-end, high-production social media they ultimately prefer. As OP said, that's okay. The fediverse can remain a viable alternative, even if it doesn't become the new #1.
I think this is a message people should hear if they think Lemmy has the potential to outright eclipse Reddit at the moment, or think the Fediverse will take over the entirety of the internet and give the top tech companies a run for their money in doing so.

It doesn't need to be. It just needs to be better than Reddit, which it is. That's enough to make me happy.

The main reason behind Reddit’s API changes and Twitter Blue is money. This is and always will be the driving force for companies.
It makes sense. The people need to be payed, the servers need to be run.
Twitter Blue exists because Musk is an asshat, and screwed himself out of billions of dollars, and he's trying to claw some back. Reddit's API changes are because they're trying to set up for an IPO to line the pockets of the board and executives, not just of Reddit, but of Advance Publications, the parent company.
That IPO set up isn't only about profitability right now, it's also about the profitability of reddit going forward. The effect of all the nonsense that's going on over there is that the userbase is having the critical people culled away, leaving only the people who don't understand or care. This means that Reddit The Company will be more in control of the content. Advertisers don't like their ads showing up next to porn, and it's arguable that people who are critical of the way reddit behaves are less likely to click ads (on purpose), and certainly less likely to convert into customers for those advertisers.
Did Reddit The Company plan it that way? Not a chance. They've been doing stupid things hamfistedly for a while, some might say since the very beginning.
As a counter to your opinion that the fediverse is not the future of the internet: Meta jumped in, Threads is an ActivityPub platform. Wikimedia has an instance now. I believe the Netherlands government stood up an instance. I don't know the federation status of any of those, but it's something.
The difference between standalone siloed platforms like Instagram, or Reddit, or, Digg, or SomethingAwful, or Fark, or Twitter, or, or, or -- is that ActivityPub is a protocol. Anyone can write code to create a platform to use ActivityPub, and have that platform interact with other ActivityPub content in a myriad of ways. I fully expect there to come an ActivityPub platform that really catches on, much more powerfully than any of the current ones out there.
- Interesting take. I know about Meta and it wouldn't be out of character for the Dutch government to go into the federated direction. It would be really awesome to see more federated platforms catch on like Mastodon. We just have to be careful about letting companies like Meta in. What happened with XMPP can't happen with the Fediverse. I do admit that I probably make it out to be worse than it will be, I'm just the cautious kind. Let's hope that the Fediverse will be a nice place with nice people for a long time.

Good. Hopefully, those that make Reddit the experience it is stays there.

Yes. Quality over quantity is the way.

I sure as hell hope it doesn't become mainstream - I don't think there's ever been a single thing that's benefitted over the long-term from mainstream popularity.
I understand that you don't want to be seen as gatekeeping, but I don't share that aversion. I overtly want the fediverse to remain somewhat confusing and opaque, and specifically so that dumb and/or impatient and/or lazy people will stay away. I think that every single person who gets confused and frustrated here and goes back to Reddit or Twitter is a net gain for the fediverse.
- I agree that it would be beneficial to have this space be filled with people that understand it. What I meant by “I am not gate keeping the Fediverse” is that I don't want to be rude to new people by being annoyed at people not knowing stuff yet. It's okay to be new, it's okay to learn. I just want people to be willing to learn, that's all.
  
  Ah. Yes - I agree entirely.

Neither is the internet the future of the internet.

The inspiration we need

The future of the internet is personal. It won't be the case globally.

I absolutely agree.
Reaching the masses and keeping all of the mass content requires money, since investors are starting to realize that gazillions of views do not necesarilly equals profit, they are asking about ROI, which in turn makes the masses-reaching platforms look for ways to monetize those views, and that does not sit well with privacy caring people, but the masses don't care about that.
I really hope the masses never fill the fediverse with their nonsensical content.

But if i want my idiots? That's how i get my rareinsults screenshots to post and gain karma!
- We don't even have karma here, sorry :(

This bullshit is 100% written by corporate social media. Fuck that.
- It's not. I just wrote something about not using Discord and am currently working on a post about Element, the better Discord. https://uselessauth.btw.so/opinion-discord-shouldnt-be-your-main-messenger
  
  I am not convinced by your opinion piece.

96 comments