M*crosoft's search engine is borderline unusable
M*crosoft's search engine is borderline unusable
It's impressive how duckduckgo manages to be so much better than bing despite being a frontend for bing
270 comments
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Oh my god that's amazing. Instructions on how to do what you're literally doing, dead internet theory is so correct. Instructions for robots by robots
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Unpopular opinion: dead internet is not only real, but GOOD. Once robots get good enough to autonomously sign up for websites and make convincing posts, this will force us humans to go actually outside, make friends, form deep social relationship, and build lasting, resilient communities. Meanwhile on the internet, websites that are willing to allow AI content for money will eventually die out due to lack of actual users. The only remaining websites will be run by individuals and organizations with non-profit motives, and a strict human-only policy with verification based on word-of-mouth / invite system.
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this will force us humans to go actually outside, make friends, form deep social relationship, and build lasting, resilient communities
There is no chance it goes that way, how is talking to people outside even an option for someone used to just being on the internet? Even if the content gets worse, the basic mechanisms to keep people scrolling still function, while the physical and social infrastructure necessary for in person community building is nonexistent.
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Enshittified internet and software made me no longer obsessed with technology, and instead I focused on other hobbies. And it also made my socialize more.
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I'm extremely wary and nervous about how disruptive LLMs can/will be but one relief is just getting an answer directly for things instead of wading through page after page of SEO optimized BS. Just really nice when you can get a quick answer and get back to the things you want to be doing.
I suppose the AI overlords will screw that up somehow too but IMO it's at a brief moment of usefulness.
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I'm a geek, always around computers, gaming, tinkering, etc.
Once I moved for work, to Spain, didn't know the language. My laptop broke, like, when opening it, the plastic was fatigued and the screen just bent.
I was broke, expensive training... Couldn't replace it before a few months.
So I went to the bar of the inn I was starting at. And just, tried to pick up some words.
Long story short, after a while I knew everyone in town, had many friends, and after work, laptop or not, I would go to the bar. I got fluent in Spanish too.
Happiest time of my life. I don't think my mental health has ever been as good as back then.
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Boooo, this is just diet accelerationism! Let me have genuine online connections in addition to my IRL ones.
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On robots.net too
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Okay, totally off topic...what is it with this annoying trend of censoring a company/name with an asterisk when it's a subject of ire? It just bugs me - and not in a way that focuses my anger to Microsoft.
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With stuff like Tesla and Twitter, it can keep away the weird nerds who search those terms in hopes of white-knight-sealioning a conversation into oblivion. I think it just became part of the lexicon.
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It conveys "I have such a disdain for that thing that I'm asterisking its name like it was a slur or swear word".
I'm not a big fan either, even if you can find some secondary roles for that (as keeping someone from finding it, like ilinamorato exemplified). It distracts the reader from what is being said to the author's personal opinion about what is being said.
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It's ironic, except for when we're talking about the Fr*nch. It's self aware humor that you're being ridiculous. The tone it's supposed to convey in situations like thisis that you're being hyperbolically obtuse.
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Yeah, that Franch dipping sauce in Breaking Bad was crazy!
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speak of the devil and he shall appear
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And to add insult to injury...
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People are going to see this, so here's the answer.
Logitech's web UI is crap. See that tiny, unlabled triangle on the list on the left?
Click it and pick your OS version.
Then you get the download.
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...huh. TIL.
The last time I had to download the unifying software it was more obvious than that.
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Is softonic actually malware or an unreliable repository that may contain malware? I’ve never actually clicked in lol
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I unknowingly downloaded some software from there when I was a kid, and, from what I remember, it came bundled with some sort of update manager or something. Even if it's not outright malware, I would wager most people who are looking to download logitech's utility don't want some irrelevant third-party garbage on their system. So AT BEST it's crapware / bloatware
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My elderly dad fell for something similar trying to call HP support, he googled the number and the top result was some bullshit. They had him set up remote access and compromised all his data. Old man had to reset everything.
He called me saying what happened, I had him shut down and unplug. I recovered what I could but he lost a lot of data.
This shit should be illegal. Like, I'm sure it is technically but there shouldnt be unofficial sponsored results above legitimate sources.
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Yeah… I get that you pay for ads, but ads should never masquerade themselves as legitimate content.
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In a perfect world, they'd be legally/financially responsible for any ads they serve up like that.
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The latter.
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Yes it is.
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It's just a mirror for software that is or was free. Though it's been around for years, and hasn't been relevant or needed by most people for a long time now so it very well could contain viruses and shit these days.
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How is Softonic still allowed to advertise it's literally Malware
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Softonic has to have made a deal with the SEO devil.
Non idea how their disgusting malware is always on top.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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.
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Softonic be like every app you want we have it, even the non exist ones. But once you installed our apps you already have made a pact with the devil
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Does anyone know exactly what malware they are serving? I'm tempted to run it though virustotal.
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It's not malware it's more adware. At least it used to be
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Wow reading through these comments makes me a little sad. Most people still don't know jack about search engines or how they differ under the hood, or eve just how to add them into your browser search bar. Looks like all the effort I put into that that simple search engine guide was in vain.
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Well that was a spectacular read in your link, keep calling attention to it, 'cause it's gonna be a constant drip-drip-drip of people finding out. I didn't know, but starting today, I'm gonna experiment with SearXNG as my primary search engine, see how that goes!
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Thanks
Yacy seems to be what I want but I am worried about the content that would get indexed
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Thanks for making such an interesting guide! I'll read through this and hopefully learn more about search engines and what would work the best for me.
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still looks better than the average Google search
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Not to defend Bing in anyway, but I typed logitech unifying software and the first result is the download page on logitechs site.
I am not doubting you, but why is it so different for me? I see non of the ???? section, no ads, just a link at the top like you would expect.
What are you using or doing different?
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Do you have uBlock or some similar ad blocker installed?
EDIT: I went and looked myself. I do have an ad-blocker installed. I don't see the ad. But I do see more noise than OP (desktop, Firefox):
- There's a set of steps at the top left telling me to download and install the software, which is what OP was complaining about.
- At the top right, there's a large, blue button with a link that guesses incorrectly that I want to know about Logitech Unifying Receiver Pairing, and just sends me to another Bing search.
- Beneath that, there are a list of several questions that Microsoft incorrectly thinks I might be wanting to task and their answers.
- Then there are two "Explore more" links linking me to pages describing how to pair with the software. One appears to link to "logi.com" with apparently is a Logitech business support page that links to the software, albeit only the Mac version, which I'd guess isn't what OP wanted.
- Back on the left, I have what appears to be an AI spam question-answer site at
thewindowsclub.comand another page on "how to unify" atrobots.net. - Beneath that, I have a link to the Logitech download section. So it's in my top results and on my laptop, visible on the first screen of results, though beneath some not-really-desirable stuff.
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The screenshot is from Microsoft Edge running in Windows 10 (virtual machine) with no/little browsing history and no account connected. I'm hypothesizing here, but maybe these are the reasons:
- You don't see the ??? section because you're not on Edge. Bing AI only works on edge (it checks your user agent)
- You don't see the ad because you have an adblocker
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Just tried it in Edge, with no ad block.
The first link was what I was searching for. None of that extra stuff showed up. The ad (for something unrelated) was in a column in the right.
There is no account associated, little browsing history. This machine was completely wiped 2 weeks ago.
I think the difference is, I am not in the US.
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I would give startpage.com a shot i find it works even better than duckduckgo
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Thanks for the tip! I use startpage already, it's pretty good. From what I understand, it uses Google's search index under the hood.
There's also Brave search which (claims to be) privacy friendly and (claims to) have their own independent search index, so you could give that a try as well. I wouldn't say it's better that startpage or google tho
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and (claims to) have their own independent search index
AFAIK their index is very small, so they use Bing to supplement it. Most search engines and voice assistants that aren't Google use Bing in some way, since it's the largest search index that has an official public API that anyone can use.
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I’ve been using Brave search for a while as a daily driver. It’s usually pretty decent, but I fall back to google when looking for commercial stuff like local stores and products.
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Damn I'd love to use it but it does not have my country as an option to select region so pretty much useless to me sadly. Stuck to DDG abd google/bing it seems.
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💸 Microsoft 🤑 got 💰 paid 🫰 so... they managed to come out ahead of this whole ordeal just fine.
The rest of us can go suck a bag of dicks for all they care.
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Hey now, that malware has paid to be the top result! Probably using the proceeds scammed out of somebody who downloaded it.
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Stract.com open search engine a guy built in his basement. It is not perfect but feels like Google used to in the late 90s, when you had real results
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Thanks, I've never heard of this. I've been using Brave Search + DDG + Marginalia
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Mainstream search engines (google and bing) are completely useless. Alternatives ftw.
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I wouldn't call bing mainstream
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sadly it seems that most other search engines (like ddg) can be quite lacklustre in their image results
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It’s gone really downhill ever since co-pilot
It’s hard to call it better than Google now
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Is it still good for porn, at least?
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I just use Google with uBlock Origin to get rid of adverts
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How does Microsoft’s compare to M*crosoft’s?
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Not sure, but I am a fan of Mpcrosoft's search
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And they force windows users to not use chrome
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That's good only if their choice wasnt even worst
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Edge is comparable to chrome
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Who'd use Chrome anyway?
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some non tech savvy people?
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tbf it seems to be a common issue with search engines atm. brave also has the stupid ai response topmost, and startpage without adblock pushes in so many sponsored results that you need to scroll to get to anything else
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I feel like most commenters here would think "no one wants the stupid ai response", but obviously some people like it or they wouldn't do it. I think if your searches are more general kind of "can I catch chicken pox from chickens" type questions it might be helpful ?
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Kagi
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This is the first time I've seen Kagi, I'll check them out. I've been pretty happy with SearxNG.
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I really love Kagi, it's been worth the money for me!
I can block results, re-order result priority, enable or disable any feature I want, and their AI summary feature is actually good and is locked behind a click (Quick Answer) so it doesn't trigger on every search. Also obviously no ads and no tracking.
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Just Duck it!
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At least what you are looking for, is on the first page. With Google you get half a page of ads not relevant to your search, and two pages of SEO garbage, before you get to a relevant search.
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Isn't this the same as Google?
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If you are interested maybe look at this post I made comparing search engines
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Thank you so much for this! I did not know Kagi was doing that, and I was about to cave in and start trying it out!
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SearXNG is also amazing. The only reason I don't use it more is because it doesn't have an integration into the URL bar in Firefox.
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Can't you add it manually?
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Yes, but you may need to mess with about:config. I just added Jira as a search engine so I can type ticket numbers.
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Dude. When you're looking at whatever search just right click in the url bar and there will be an option to add that search engine. Then in settings you can make it your default if you wish.
The reason I don't use SearXNG is because the public instances always seem to be slow and or broken.
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So, did it never occur to you that you can manually add custom search engine into Firefox?
Settings>search>manage alternate search engines>add search engine
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It does, look it up in the addon marketplace- been working great for me
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I don't get malware and AI on firefox, but uBlock count's continually up. I know this behavior only from trash dump sites.
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it's Microsoft. You don't need to edgelord censor yourself.
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Yeah, you're totally allowed to cuss on the internet.
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I've been using my own searxng instance for a few months now and my god I'm never going back.
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Which one? Something paid or self hosted?
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Self-hosted. That's not a typo, it's what it's called. Searxng.
Here's a list of puplic instances to try or use.
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Google is even worse.
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If you know you want Logitech software, why not go directly to the Logitech site and search there?
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Not sure about Logitech, but most other companies where I need to download driver software it’s an absolute crapshoot. Search engines used to be good for implementing complex search on your site without need to spin up a custom search logic yourself.
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Google still have an API and SDK for if you want to use Google Search on your own site.
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Another problem with everyone doing a search engine is that they can have a widely-disparate featureset, and I'm very unlikely to spend enough time on any one site to familiarize myself with a given featureset. Maybe one or two sites, like github.com. But if I'm just looking for a download of software for a given product? Nah.
Maybe if everyone used local Search Engine X -- like Harvest or something. Or if everyone agreed on a search syntax to support.
Google also used to, in their early days, sell a search appliance that companies could use locally to provide searching. I'd guess that that probably contains enough trade secrets and stuff now that they don't want to hand it out any more.
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I typed the URL that was literally printed in the packaging of a [new] Logitech mouse, and the page didn't exist! Like, how?!‽
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Sometimes brand websites are done well and you find what you're looking for within a few clicks, but more often than that, the website will be a horrendous experience.
Google search results used to usually bring up the direct link to the download page on that brand's website. Pretty much as the first search result.
To be fair, that also was a time where brand websites were really bad.
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That's... what they're looking for.
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5 seconds later
Welcome to Logitech global! It looks like you’re searching for this article that talks about how Logitech is the global leader in ending climate change and ending world hunger! Here’s a link to our press releases.
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OR install it via Chocolatey:
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Because we have been conditioned for 30 years to use a search engine
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Need to enshittify it enough to make the AI features feel like an improvement.
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I wouldn't say it's borderline unusable tbh...
The first adware result is blocked with any ad blocker, the fact you see it means you might not have your ad blocker on, or disabled in incognito mode.
The second and third copilot bullshit sections can be toggled off from any search result page, on the sidebar settings there's a toggle.
I do appreciate the bing rewards thing, basically every few weeks I get a gift card because you earn points by using bing
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They got to you. It's too late to safe you. Rest peacefully.
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Um, acktually, all you have to do to use the product successfully is to follow my bespoke instruction set that I posted to the premiere federated platform where I carefully enumerated the steps necessary to…..hey wait why are you running away from me I’m actively helping you!!!!!
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SearXNG
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Next time just go directly to the domain. You don't need to rely on a search engine for all web navigation, you know.
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Sometimes you just can't guess the domain name of a company you know. Also, it doesn't help that most companies website are fucking nightmare to navigate so having the relevant page on the first click is nice too
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using a searchengine helps avoid domain squatting phishing. this is why I like domain bar as a search engine. if it's new I search it, if it's a place I've been to before it autocompletes the url.
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Yeah but then I would have to navigate logitech's stupid website to find the download button... and then navigate it again, because turns out the software for pairing standard receivers is completely separate from the software for pairing unifying receivers... Sigh... But hey, at least it doesn't force you to make an account!
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I have to constantly remind myself that the average user today cannot tell the difference between a search engine and a web browser.
And we have the URL bar pulling double duty as a search engine entry form to thank for that.
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I strongly fought for the Omnibar in the mid 2000’s as a pro-user feature and I regret everything. I was wrong.
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what’s even the point of a download link if you don’t have a guide that tells you how to click the link
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No joke, I hesitated to even click on the thumbnail. That's what this bullshit modern internet has conditioned me to do.
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If only they could make a functioning store. Laterally the only os now where you still have to go to a third party website for software.
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Ugh. Do you really want that though? They do have a store don't they? Just no one wants to use it.
Debian has had a browseable catalog since forever but it's still waaay better to just go to a third party's website and see how they say to install whatever thing.
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Can someone ELI5 how searx works and if it's worth the hassle of hosting? I'm privacy conscious but not paranoid.
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Can someone ELI5 how searx works
It sends your search query to a bunch of different existing search engines, and shows you all of the results in one combined page
if it’s worth the hassle of hosting
Personally idk, maybe someone else can provide their opinion about this
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Searx (as others have said) is an aggregate of multiple search engines all bundled into one, with very finetuned customization (ie: you can toggle every search option you want or not within each category).
You also don't need to host your own, though I'm not sure what the significance of being self hosted in this case is.
As far as usefulness over other search sites, it's generally better with some caveats. Search engines as a whole are in a pretty awful state, so combining them is better, but still not that good. It does offer some very niche search engines that can be extremely useful when pooled together though, which is nice.
Searx also has some captcha issues that I haven't quite figured out. My understanding is that essentially, search engines don't like when you use their engine without being on their site, and it'll stop working via searx (until you go to the site in question and do the captcha maybe?).
There's also a few different domains for searx with varying degrees of availability as far as what engines they reliably connect to.
All in all, searx is great by comparison to mainstream trash, but it can be a headache to setup, and a headache to maintain. There's a masterlist of searx hosts somewhere, I'll try and see about finding it if someone else doesn't link it.
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There’s a masterlist of searx hosts somewhere, I’ll try and see about finding it if someone else doesn’t link it.
It's here: https://searx.space/
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Should've just asked your trusty copilot 🤖
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i remember i got a opera broswer recommended on bing when i was searching for zen which is a firefox fork
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I mean... you went to Bing to search for a program. That's something that a new or inexperienced user would do, and Bing tried to help. It gave a direct link to the software (a link which I just tested to be working and safe on a virtual machine), it instructed how to do it using the official website, and then as a third option, it gave a link to the website.
I know that a lot of people will automatically assume a site like Softonic is loaded with malware (and I don't have the time to refute all of those claims) but the download they provided of the software was just a mirror of the official download and came with no added malware, spyware, or adware. Use at your own risk, but OP is pretty clearly fearmongering in an attempt to get people to give them internet points.
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This is absurd.
Typing "Logitech unifying software download" in the address bar is massively less effort than navigating their shitshow of a site. It's not a sign of inexperience in any way.
Allowing an ad with any third party download is an insane policy, and it is not a legitimate practice at all to use an unreliable third party with a well deserved bad reputation to download software in place of the manufacturer.
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Bing does not allow for exclusion of specific phrases by using hyphens and quotes. You can put them in your query, but they will be ignored.
Searching for: Topic -TopicSimilar
Is identical to: Topic
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It’s amazing how bad that is.
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is it based on your searches or something? both in the browser with fingerprint protection where it thinks im from Usa and from the one where it detects my correct location the first result is from logi.com. I really hate bing, specially since they started pushing ai, but dunno, doesnt seem like the normal user experience what you are getting.
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paid ActivityPub updooterer wen
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Your search query is garbage incidentally. Unifying is a "feature" not the name of any particular software. You should have searched for the model of your hardware
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...Nnnnno, there is literally a tool from Logitech called "Logitech Unifying Software," which is the applet you need to reassign a Logitech Unifying receiver to a different device.
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025297913-Unifying-Software
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Maybe you should inform Logitech about that?
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/resource-center/what-is-unifying.html
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It's describing the FEATURE! There are no downloads listed for a feature for a reason... you don't load the actual software for instance "logitechoptions" "logitech options+" "G hub"
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Also your own fucking link says explicitly that you can achieve the feature it describes with Logitech Options Plus! From your own goddamn link
. You can now personalize the experience of your Unifying devices with the powerful Logi Options+ App that lets you customize your supported Logitech devices so you can get more done.
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Where are your downloads for that! They don't call it that any longer
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Not as garbage as your critical thinking abilities it would seem.
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Is there a ConfidentlyIncorrect in here already?
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270 comments