Liberals hatred of Stalin is unreal

"I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the wind of History will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy."
-
- Y'know, over on Lemmygrad, a lib interloper asked if this was a legitimate quote from the man of steel himself and I had to dig up a Russian-language book (there is no english translation afaik) and to stumble my way through the cyrillic to find the source for this.
  
  did you find it? your question mark is throwing me off
  
  learning Russian to read original sources
- "Winds of History" would make an awesome cadre name.
  
  Also a plausibly deniable leftist rock band.

there's a moment on the journey out of liberalism where you finally read Stalin's words and go, "wait, this is the guy they're saying all that wild shit about?"
https://redsails.org/stalin-and-ludwig/
https://redsails.org/stalin-and-wells/
- There's a reason they do everything in their power to convince people to avoid reading anything he actually wrote and forming their own opinion.
  It's become even more imperative that they try and get people not to do that the longer their propaganda has gone on, because the moment a person does engage with him in a proper academic and mature way is the moment that it becomes clear how much is pure propaganda. This is deeply damaging to liberalism because it sets in light just how much should be questioned, it highlights the scale of it all.
- Stalin: You exaggerate. We have no especially high esteem for everything American, but we do respect the efficiency that the Americans display in everything in industry, in technology, in literature and in life. We never forget that the U.S.A. is a capitalist country. But among the Americans there are many people who are mentally and physically healthy who are healthy in their whole approach to work, to the job on hand. That efficiency, that simplicity, strikes a responsive chord in our hearts. Despite the fact that America is a highly developed capitalist country, the habits prevailing in its industry, the practices existing in productive processes, have an element of democracy about them, which cannot be said of the old European capitalist countries, where the haughty spirit of the feudal aristocracy is still alive.
  ...
  That cannot be said of America, which is a country of “free colonists,” without landlords and without aristocrats. Hence the sound and comparatively simple habits in American productive life. Our business executives of working-class origin who have visited America at once noted this trait. They relate, not without a certain agreeable surprise, that on a production job in America it is difficult to distinguish an engineer from a worker by outward appearance. That pleases them, of course.
  
  My immediate reaction to this, is that these statements both seem to become less & less true as the American project continues onwards.
  
  Stalin is cancelled
  
  Stalin Ameriboo confirmed
- H.G Wells is an OG one true leftist hexbearite:
  "It seems to me that I am more to the Left than you, Mr. Stalin; I think the old system is nearer to its end than you think."
  Aside from that, Stalin is such a great orator... However, his skill in speaking can't be put only down to an ability to speak plainly and clearly - rather it is the solidness of his theories and robust historical knowledge that makes it easy for him to speak with such authority and precision.
  That is why liberal politicians fail so horribly in their seethrough speeches. They are not backed by actual facts or historically materialist theory. By nature of their juxtaposition as defenders of capital AND supposed servants of the people, they can be nothing other than duplicitous.
  I wager that there is not a mainstream politician in the U.S or the U.K that could survive even 20 minutes questioning by Stalin without being made to look a bludgeoned fool. Biden would last about 14 seconds before keeling over and dying.

I'm fucking grumpy so if I see any goddamn liberal shit in here I'm using the banhammer don't fuck with me

Liberals in this thread proving this post true, in every cliche lib way possible
- I read through it earlier and it made feel high because I kept thinking I’d read that argument and it was just another person repeating the same bullshit

It really feels like there’s a point where amerikkkan propaganda destroys history and I think we’ve reached that with Stalin
- It's a matter of quantity of people the propaganda reaches.
  In terms of quality, socialists repeatedly have success making an impact on this topic on other people. Right now there are people reading some of the comments in this post, particularly the longer comments, and they are genuinely being impacted by some of the things they learn or points made. Often silently.
  The main issue is primarily the quantity of people that their propaganda reaches over the quantity of people that socialists can try to educate in a deeper and more meaningful way. I think it's worth looking outside the US though, across Europe most takes are significantly more measured, and across parts of the global south you get views completely untainted by the US propaganda because it doesn't reach them at all. Don't despair.

Stalin did nothing wrong. Except stopping at Berlin.
- And not going far enough with the purges.
  
  And dying.
- So say-eth the Canadian moose 🫎
- its true, generally good guy that made great strides for lgbtq folks
  
  Thats one of the things he generally did bad on, but he did massively improve the qol of impoverished queer folks, and improved the qol of queer folks in liberated territories.

stalin is the greatest leader in world history

- They sure do seem obsessed with misattributing that "million deaths is a statistic line" to him though
  
  listen if all those ~~unborn~~ unconceived potential nazi children wanted grain they should have brought their own spoon

Stalin was... A man with a moustache
- Correction, a man with THE BEST mustache

folks if you look below the post topic, but right above the comment box, you'll see
cross-posted to: memes@lemmygrad.ml memes@lemmy.ml
if you click one of them you'll go to the cross-posted post where you have the opportunity to respectfully engage with users whom may not know about the discussions we've had here.
- Ah, so you are the guys sending in the political memes to memes@lemmy.ml now I'm not that suprised by the number of them anymore.
  
  Lmao shut up nerd

If they hate him, it means he must have the right idea.
- TBF liberals hate fascists, just significantly less than they hate communists.
  
  A lot of liberals will actively support fascists if it means beating the evil leftists
  
  nah, they hate the imagery of nazis (high school history and emergence of basic political ability), they don't really know enough of what fascism is to hate it in any other form.
  Ukraine comes to mind

Me talking about stalin with other marxists: he did lots of good, did some bad, we should evaluate his actions and make sure to not repeat them, while keeping the actions that enabled numerous successes. *lists multiple fuckups stalin did with the chinese civilwar, tito-stalin split, homosexuality ban, etc)
Me when talking to Liberals about stalin: Stalin is my father and leader

cyberghost waging a ppw against every lib lurker in the lemmyverse

He is also quoted as saying
Death solves all problems. No man, no problem.
True, Stalin was a more nuanced character that he is usually given credit for but he was still a paranoid and brutal man who was responsible for the deaths of a lot of innocent people.
Let's not fall into the trap of either lionizing or demonizing historical figures.
- He is also quoted as saying [blahblahblahbollocksbollocksbollocks]
  No he isn't. Maybe you should actually verify instead of spreading complete and utter bullshit with such confidence?
  Let's not fall into the trap of either lionizing or demonizing historical figures.
  Yet here we are, with you attempting to demonise a historic figure by spreading bullshit.
  responsible for the deaths of a lot of innocent people.
  Every single US president in world history is too. Every single supporter of capitalism is responsible for 100million deaths every 5 years, what's your point? You're making an emotional attempt to demonise in one breath while pretending otherwise in the next.
  You're full of shit mate.
  
  If you read my comment properly, I specifically said "he is quoted as saying ...", which is undeniably true.
  Yet here we are, with you attempting to demonise a historic figure by spreading bullshit.
  Saying that that Stalin was a brutal and paranoid man, amongst other things is a historically accurate statement.
  If you think I'm promoting the standard, one dimensionals view that Stalin was evil incarnate, then you have completely failed to understand my point.
- he never did, it's from a novel
  This one
  it predates every non-fiction instance of the phrase being used to my knowledge
  This phrase is from the novel "Children of the Arbat" (1987) by Anatoly Naumovich Rybakov (1911 - 1998). This is how J.V. Stalin speaks about the execution of military experts in Tsaritsyn in 1918: “Death solves all problems. There is no person, and there is no problem. Later, in his “Novel-Memoir” (1997), A. Rybakov himself wrote that he “may have heard this phrase from someone, perhaps he came up with it himself.” That was the Stalinist principle. I just, briefly formulated it.
  from here
  
  Many biographers have cited it, including Simon Montefiore is his book The Red Tsar, which was very well researched and shows Stalin as multi-faceted and charismatic, albeit deeply flawed.
  The idea that Stalin was brutal is ridiculous.
  Um, have you ever read a book about the man? The Great Purges between 1936-1938 and his policies towards the Soviet peasantry are just two examples of his ruthlessness.
- Don't you find it a little strange that this short bit of quote is so often repeated but we never hear the context for it?
  When you hear it out of context it sounds callous and cruel, but it would be a very different statement if (for example) he said it in response to finding out Hitler killed himself or that some enemy had died of cancer or something.
  And that's not even taking into account the fact that it's inherently very suspicious that nobody seems to be able to produce a source for the original context and attribution of the quote.
  
  Whether the quote is aprocyphal or not, it seems fitting because of the way Stalin dealt with political opponents. The list of early Bolsheviks were rounded up and shot during Stalin's purges is quite lengthy.
- "This is completely made up, but because it sounds right to me, it must be true."
- Edit: if you’re going to quote, at least put a fucking source. Right now you’re making shit up.

Hitler also had some great ideas and quotes. But he's still Hitler.
- Hitler also had some great ideas
  Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
  
  Hitler had one great idea.
  On April 30th 1945, in the Führerbunker, in what one might call the greatest brainstorming in all of history.
- Good thing Stalin stopped him.
- Great ideas like what?
  
  Great ideas like what??
- No he didn’t, he was a nationalist crank who came into power because Germany was already really racist at the time. Anything he did or said, your racist uncle could have done it with a better haircut.
- it is amazing to read Hitler and Stalin's writings back to back. Stalin was a legitimate proletarian intellectual. Hitler was a reactionary crank who internalized the entirety of world history as a race war. I would put some Hitler quotes side by side with Stalin quotes to make my point, but I don't want to stain Hexbear with Hitler's nonsense.
  https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/b911d835-9417-4e0e-a5d0-60580116b521.png
  
  Pic isn't a bad leftist meme, just a bit too terse
  
  Stalin's quotes here are still as relevant as ever.. Yet none of this will be taught in schools, because as soon as a generation of workers become aware of the system that oppresses them, revolution will be inevitable
- Lmao shut up you fucking nazi
- WYPIERDALAJ 🖕🖕🖕
- You mean like this quote?

Said the guy in part famous for exporting all the bread there was in Ukraine to other parts of his empire.
- Yeah, that's definitely what happened lol
  
  Yes, it did.
  https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
  
  Well then you tell me what did, I'm intrested to hear "both sides of the story".
- No he didn't export it, he fed it to the cows which he then had slaughtered and exported to his favorite pal in Germany: Hitler. This was all written in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Nazi accords. mOLOtov is where hOLOdomor comes from, with the Do Mor referencing the desire to do more genocide
  
  Can't argue that
- As far as I know that is the truth, but portraying him as devil himself while not doing the same with who ever did the same to Ireland does not seam consistent.

One guy saying one thing that makes sense doesn't absolve his actions
- What actions are you upset about? Taking a society from fuedal conditions to the space age? Or defeating facsim?
- Specifically, one guy saying one thing AFTER doing the opposite. (See: Ukrainian Famine 1932)
  he said this in an interview in 1936. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/03/01.htm
  It's still a good idea. Also, Stalin is still a fucking travesty of a human, as is everyone who enabled him.
  
  The famine being a genocide was misinfo spread by nazi publications such as hearst press. The misinfo was used as justification for murdering Jewish people as "soviet collaborators"
  
  Do you want s conversation about this or are you coming set in your ways? That way, we can either talk about your unfounded position or shame will be the best option moving forward on this topic

ITT: libs be vibin' to anything the state department wants them to believe.

- But... The soviet union did end homelessness? It did end unemployment? It doubled life expectancy? It eliminated illiteracy? It eliminated the gender wage gap? It eliminated gender workplace inequality in tech/science (still visible today)? It went from a feudal backwards society to the #2 industrial superpower in the world in just 30 years and invented space travel.
  You make this comparison with capitalist leadership with a "both sides" implication and yet pay no attention to the sincere and easily provable differences, doing this just makes you an active supporter of the status quo.
  
  Not at all, I'm just learning about all of this