"you cant be communist cuz you wealthy"
"you cant be communist cuz you wealthy"
People claim that i cannot be communist because my family is wealthy. This argument is just stupid in many ways, its as if you told a white person he cannot be against racism because he is part of a more privileged group. The people argumenting this pile of diarrhea which they interpret as a "gotcha" moment also seem to forget that a lot of revolutionaries were from wealthy families like Friedrich Engels, Che Guevara, Fidel Castro, Marx etc. Being communist has nothing to do with your class-background but your solidarity and the willingness to commit yourself to the liberation of the working class. Having petit-bourgeois, or even bourgeois parents does not make one hypocrit, you are a hypocrit the moment you exploit workers yourself. I myself met a lot of fake-intellectuals who made this argument which made me, as a baby leftist at that time, feel really insecure about the ideas i hold but at the end no true communist cares about wealth, power, luxury or anything as such. If somebody made me the offer that if i had to live the rest in my life in a small, cold, concrede apartment with no kithcen, bedroom or toilet in return all the people would be supplied with food, clothing and shelter...i wouldnt take a second to aggree.
Always remember Zhou Enlai quote on Khrushchev when he questioned him on coming from a priviledged family while he claimed to come from peasantry.
"True but we share a similarity. Each of us is a class traitor".
Was about to pull this up but I'm glad its well remembered on here, I like to think of it as one of the finest dunks of the 20th century.
Definitely up there lol. I also like Marx dunk on the writer of "the philosophy of poverty", he called the critique "the poverty of philosophy" 😂 he then mentions his friendship ended after that.
Primo dunk
this cartoon captures it perfectly
Here are a few more similar comic panels from Matt Bors.
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They use this argument to dismiss anything you say without thinking about it.
I'm quite poor, so I get the other end of this "You're just a communist because you want to leech off of other's hard work."
They're just empty thought-terminating cliches, it doesn't matter who you are, if you're a communist, people will say stupid shit to you in order to dismiss communism without ever thinking about it.
Often the same people who say this are the same people who think they can't talk about racism because they're white. Nothing is ever a them problem. Everything is a you problem. They don't like it when other privileged people stand with the oppressed. It makes them look bad and the cognitive dissonance is uncomfortable.
I've heard it before and I'll repeat it here: this is related to the reason why liberals hate communists so much; our very existence forcibly reminds them that their empty idealist rhetoric doesn't fill bellies, build homes, or prevent hate crimes.
Edit: I knew I'd read it recently, it was Criticalresist8, who put it like this:
They can’t reconcile the fact that they are not actually the most progressive and tolerant person in the room.
I think at least in America, I've felt the sentiment that to be socialist means you're in a poverty cult. I place it on the propaganda and images of poorer countries that are/were socialist, as though they were poor because they chose the wrong system
I have seen quite a few American Maoists and ultras practically worship poverty, acting like the only way a socialist nation can be "truly" socialist is if everyone is equally poor, which is just nonsense. No one should be rich due to the exploitation of others, but that doesn't mean people can't be well off.
It's probably because they're projecting that if their family was as wealthy as yours, they'd probably be a hardcore capitalist
If you're poor and a communist, that's just because you're incapable of bootstrapping yourself upwards and jealous of successful people
When the chips are down, people normally fight for their self-interest.
The bourgeoisie fight for bourgeois interests.
Proletarians fight for labour interests.
Landlords aren't going to willingly give up their free income and comfort in exchange for a life of labour. (Maybe 1% of them will.) They might say they will from the comfort of their armchair, but I'm talking when your life, your future are on the line.
If it’s during a revolution and people are being held at gunpoint to give up their property, I would counter that an extremely large portion of wealthy people would give up their wealth without much issue at all.
Possibly, but then they will seek to destroy the revolution by using infiltration and fascism. The revolution is not just the fighting and seizing of the MOP - it is the continued subordination of the local bourgeoisie to the DOTP and the defense against imperialism/the international (lead by the American) bourgeoisie.
My grandmother in Eastern Europe came from a wealthy aristocratic family but was a communist and gave up willingly all the lands and property.
45 years later corrupt anti-communist far right nationalists took power, canceled socialism and just divided it all up between themselves and their cronies…
The idea that you're obligated to show a system any gratitude just because you've benefit from it in some way (or even were shaped by it at all) is one of my least favorite parts of dealing with other people. A bizarrely deeply ingrained notion.
Stop thinking about those people who are still dirt poor. You've got yours now so pipe down. Try to be thankful rather than ungrateful.
Absolute inversion of reality, as usual. I also detest this kind of argument.
Only ever applies to the West. Chinese people who got everything they have under CPC rule don't owe CPC anything, according to the same people.
Yeah fuck those people. If they’re communists saying this then they’re only damaging the movement and should shut the fuck up for the benefit of the world in general. If they’re not and trying to “gotcha” you, they’re idiots, and should be treated as such. It’s a bad faith argument and an attempt to discount you by making you out to be a hypocrite.
When people attempt to do this to me in person I have no problem warning them that I’m prone to smacking people who piss me off.
If you are rich and a communist then you have a duty to donate to leftist movements. Don't just be a rich guy who reads leftist books to pass the time. Your funding might make a huge difference in the long run. Imagine if Engels never financed Marx.
If you don't know where to start, then I suggest you help with leftist independent media. Breakthrough News do a lot of good work.
True, im super rich and give at least 15% of my income per month to the DSA
They're just socdems and won't stop US imperialism. Imo, it's better to donate to independent journalists like BN, Brian Berlectic, Grayzone and similar ones, than socdem organizations.
It's just a way tonpremptively discredit anybody criticizing capitalism.
Oh, you think socialism is good, well then why dont you willingly make yourself destitute, ensuring you can't have any impact on anything.
We should reclaim that gotcha. If capitalism is so equal, and hard work is such a source of pride, why don't you give everything away and start from the bottom? It's like presteiging business, think of all the pride you'll cultivate!
If you're rich and a communist it's because you're pampered, if you're poor and a communist it's because you're jealous, and if you're middle class and a communist it's because you're lazy. We have something for everyone!
Capitalism was built with the ashes of feudalism, socialism is being built with the ashes of capitalism. All of us in the imperial core live in a capitalist society; everyone is tainted with it in some way. It’s not as though the first capitalist, when he was doing the first enclosure, looked at the land and was like “wait a minute, I’m a hypocrite since I’m using feudalism to destroy feudalism.” He didn’t care. “We will hang the capitalists with the rope that they sell us” has proven to be a pretty effective strategy.
The idea that you have to like something or owe it any gratitude just because you've benefit from it in some way (or even were shaped by it at all) is one of my least favorite parts of dealing with other people. Bizarrely deeply ingrained.
Anyone can be a communist, all it takes is your want to destroy capitalism and the inequality and oppression it brings, coming from rich or poor means nothing, as you said many famous marxists, including marx himself, were materially bourgeois, but they didnt oppress the proletariat and were genuine revolutionaries who actually wanted to end the oppression of the proletariat, these people were class traitors to the bourgeoisie and aided the proletariat against their class interests, calling these people anything but socialist or communist is plainly absurd to be honest.
And this is coming from someone who regularly deals with food issues.
Anyone can be a communist, all it takes is your want to destroy capitalism and the inequality and oppression it brings
And read theory.
theory is good but not entirely necessary lol, marxism is scientific not academic, you just need to know the basics and everything else is optional (but still good to know)
all it takes is your want to destroy capitalism
Someone's internal desires are irrelevant here. Someone who doesn't actually practice theory is apolitical.
marx himself, [was] materially bourgeois, but they didn't oppress the proletariat
You mean Engels. Marx was a journalist/writer. Engels owned a factory and did exploit the proletariat.
But all this is missing the point. We live under capitalism. Subjecting yourself/family to extreme poverty is not going to bring about the revolution, and will prevent you from various methods of supporting it.
When someone pulled the "Engels was a factory owner" card on me, I did some minimal searching and found that it was his father who owned the factory, with him getting appointed to a menial desk job. But even if that's not true (and the reason I didn't search any further) is that it doesn't really matter, even if he was a hypocrite the analyses he did with Marx and the actions they propose seem valid.
Marx was also materially bourgeois as he lived and fully depended (materially) on a bourgeois person (engels), as far as i know he didnt have a job and he was fully dependent on engels for everything.
You're only really a communist if you give me like, uhh, $20. Don't worry this goes for the poors too.
I once got told that I was a hypocrite for being a communist while simultaneously using a username in english, which, I quote, "was the language of the bourgeoisie".
I thought I had seen things hit rock bottom until I got told I could not be a communist and use money at the same time.
The amount of wealth is not the sole indicator and neither is individual choice. There are the material condition, economic relation, and desire to reform the flawed capitalist system with its hypocritical command economy that allow free riding by a few spoiled manchild.
If you were poor they would call you jealous. Throw their criticism out, it is worth less than nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGC3uJadXh0
If a rich man offers you money, take it and, the next day, kill him. When he says "But I gave you the money!" respond "Why did you give me the money, you idiot?"
We live in brutal capitalism and we must brutally use it.
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oh we're not millionaires tho just saying because where i live, millionaires are considered the point where you are officially considered "rich". But the term rich has everywhere different meaning, i might be poor in Qatar but rich in South Sudan. Nothing is objective
Frederick Engels was a capitalist that owned a factory. He also helped build revolutionary theory, and also fought for the working class in his own time.
Thus, a capitalist can be a communist.
Take heart, Zhou Enlai, the first premier of the PRC, came from wealthy privileged class.
Nikita Khrushchev: “I am the son of coal miners, you are the descendant of feudal mandarins. We have nothing in common.”
Zhou Enlai: "Perhaps we do, we are both traitors to our class.”