But I love death

This meme changed zero minds but made a few vegans feel pretty special.
- This meme really only makes sense in response to something. I've definitely heard many non-vegans complain that a vegan diet is restricting. Most of those people do only eat like 3 veggies ever.
  That being said, it's a meme, not a philosophical treatise.
- Maybe not this single one, but if there's a running discourse that shows veganism is perfectly common and normal, more people are willing to become vegan. This is part of the nudges we humans are prone to.
  
  Well I mean I can imagine on living without meat. But I can't life without cheese. I mean what meaning does life have if you can't eat cheese?
- Vegans aren't doing this to feel special, stop projecting. We just want people to stop harming animals and the only way to do that is to keep talking about it. Of all the responses vegans get, this is the most annoying one to hear.
  
  I find vegans tend to have less empathy for their fellow man than we meat-eaters have for animals. It comes across as smug (and let's be honest, it's less insulting to call them smug).
- I occasionally think about all the gametes I'm eating in vegetables. Other than rocky mountain oysters, I'm rarely eating sperm or ova when eating meat. There's roe occasionally, I suppose.

What three animals everyone else eating? We’ve got chickens, ducks, pigeons, quail, geese, cranes, turkeys, cows, deer, elk, moose, antelope, armadillo, beaver, bobcats, coyotes, foxes, lynx, bear, bison, caribou, goat, musk ox, pronghorn, sheep, muskrat, opossums, pigs, porcupine, rabbits, squirrels, pheasant, chukars, and tons of tasty insects to choose from.
- You forgot the many difference species of fish/creatures-of-the-sea.
  
  I didn’t even go there because of so many tasty options to list!
- Tell me with a straight face that you eat a fucking squirrel
  
  THAT'S the one you take issue with? Lol
  In not sure anyone is eating muskrat or opossum outside West Virginia mountain hermits, people born before 1890, and anyone who self identifies as a trapper.
  
  Squirrel are fantastic.
  They’re the least “gamey” out of most small game, less so than rabbit, and taste something like leaner dark meat chicken.
  Awesome in a crockpot substituted for chicken in most recipes. Can fancy up squirrel with a Sous vide to make squirrel confit bánh mì tacos, or keep it old school and make squirrel pot pie.
  
  I grew up eating squirrel. Its very common in rural areas,
  
  I used to live in rural Kansas, so yes
  
  I'm from Kentucky, friend. I've definitely had a squirrel or two in my day.
  
  Squirrel is actually pretty good. Some of those others though...
  
  Man the size of the of the ones in my neighborhood could replace our thanksgiving turkey if it wasn’t illegal to hunt them (I checked).
- I mean tbf, the majority of Americans don't eat anything aside from chicken pork and beef, with the occasional turkey
  
  True, but the majority of Americans also eat only a handful of plants, especially when counting brassica as one plant.
  
  That's only true because turkeys aren't that good.
- To get 80k they're obviously counting variations. How many breeds of cow have I eaten?
  
  I don't have access to that many animals, nor that many plants. Maybe 5 animals and about two dozen plants.
- OP probably meant fish, octopus, and squid
  
  lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats
- Pls don't eat fox or lynx, they cute.
  
  Not after you cook them?
- And the slothes, and the orangutans, and breakfast cereals

I eat meat AND vegetables
- You gotta let people be people. Shaming someone for their dietary choices is not cool. Not everyone shares the same beliefs and that is fine.
  I personally believe that people should not eat meat unless they have what it takes to kill it themselves so they understand what goes into it. Too many people eat meat all the time without understanding that something has to die for it to get there. I also disagree with mass agribusiness indoor livestock operations.
  
  Wait do you think farming doesn’t hurt animals? I’m all for not eating meat, but pretending you’re not harming millions of insects, birds, and various mammals every time you eat a salad, you’re confused about how food production works.
  The moral thing people can do is stop making so many people. And hopefully we find ways to produce food in a better way one day. But farming on the scale that feeds billions of people is absolutely fucked.
  
  If you dont want to contribute to the comodification of sentient beings you'd also have to quit your job unless it somehow has literally zero impact on your physical and mental well being. Anyone got a job like that?
  
  Nah.
  Steak is delicious, and at the end of the day it's only a cow.
  
  Oh boy I love leftists naivety

I don't care for debate so I'm just gonna share this tofu stir-fry recipe I like. I sub gochujang for the sambal oelek and skip the peanut garnish
- now that's what i call praxis
- This is the way
- You had me until skipping peanuts.
  
  Okay, but what if nut allergy :(
  Its hard out here, being a vegan allergic to nuts.
- See, that's what I'm talking about. I'm saving that :D
  I've never heard of sambal in my life, much less gochujang, but I guess we're going on an adventure.
  
  Sambal is fantastic. Gochujang is too, and pretty much required for any kind of korean cooking.

You can eat both vegetables and dead animals at the same time. We call that a stew.
- I call it a balanced diet... Who the fuck is exclusivly eating meat?
  
  Jordan Peterson? That is if the has a few moments inbetween crying on cam in his messy room.
  
  Why were you downvoted? You’re comment is absolutely salient
  
  If you ask every vegan I've ever had a discussion with, that would be every non-vegan in the world.

Is it vegan to sit on that high horse?
- Vegans will literally eat slave labor picked Avocados but still think the best way they can help reduce comodification is by yelling at other people online, instead of not eating the slave avocados.
- I know why people think vegans do this for some smug reason, but we don't, I promise you. We just want people to change and stop hurting animals, and the only way to do that is to keep talking about it.
  
  Funny thing is that many of us feel the same way about vegans. We just want them to change and stop getting in our face like street preachers with what we consider to be flawed logic and more flawed ethical philosophy.
  And the only way to do that is to keep standing up to vegans the same way we do JWs. It sucks because it's exhausting and we just want to be left alone.
- The horse is only high because it got into the special plants.
- Are you a farm animal when you shit on the environment?
- I'm not sure you can even have one without the other tbh

Sorry, was I supposed to eat them while they are alive?
- No, just supposed to let them live
  
  Says who?

I'm French so I'd eat Kermit too.
- Hon hon hon hon
  
  Oui Oui Baguette

A lot of people in the comments can't seem to make the distinction between what they have been fed since they were little and that they are used to, and what is good, or tastes good.
- Most people who eat meat also eat some subset of vegetables and know they like/hate some other subset of vegetables.
  The human body loves getting addicted to the unhealthy sugar carbs found in some plants, but our taste buds do tend to have a healthier long-term relationship with the umami balance you get more easily from meats and seafoods.
  
  My comment was more about the knee-jerk reaction to new ideas and new ways of looking at things you may think you are already familiar with.
  
  This can only be because you probably have no idea how to cook and always eat and buy the same dishes and ingredients all the time. Otherwise I have no idea how you would arrive at that conclusion.

Who's gonna fall for this ragebait?
- apparently many people on this thread

There's more than three affordable animals lmao. Even if you count fish as one you still have crawfish, shrimp, fish, beef, chicken, pork, lamb, venison, turkey, etc. This also doesn't even account for the million ways to prepare the meats
- There is even a difference from breed to breed: https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
- Real talk, where you buying venison? I gotta wait for a friend or family member who hunts to occasionally grace me with it.
  
  I hunt, so no need to worry about buying, but Broken Arrow Ranch sells wild venison and boar, and I'm pretty sure they ship nationwide from their website.
- Never count fish as one! That's such a disservice to fish. Salmon, tuna, red snapper, swordfish, catfish, they are all delicious in their own way and have unique textures. And don't forget scallops and other delicious mollusks!
  
  I was going for the cheap angle, which is why I left out scallops. I like fish, except tuna, can't stand tuna for some reason.
- Moose are almost free, except the $2 bullet.
- Yeah, and if we run out we always have bugs.

So you love plants? Name all plats then!

Man, here's the thing. I can't digest fermenting ogliosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides and polyols.
So no beans, mushrooms, onions garlic wheat rye or barley, apples, apricots, most berries, etc etc etc.
I also lead a "fairly" active lifestyle against my own wishes. So where does my protein come from? Meat. Chicken, eggs, and hard tofu.
If I cut meat from my diet, I'm eating three meals a day of hard tofu. What even is the point of life, then?
- I've been vegetarian for around 3 years after I discovered how badly we treat animals, and also by connecting meat and animals in my mind... Realising that the same pets that I adore are the steaks that I ate. But still, I went vegetarian because I could. I could manage to find time in my life to change my diet and to make sure I had no deficiency in nutrients... So don't be too hard on yourself mate, your situation is totally understandable! Actually I strongly disagree with people saying that anyone could become vegetarian if they wanted to, it takes a lot of thought, trial and error, time and obviously a lack of allergies... Saying that, anyone can fight for animal rights in their own way, being vegetarian is only one of the many tools we have...
  
  I'm grateful that you say that (not OP). So many vegetarians/vegans are convinced anyone who isn't vegan hates animals, or is at least "worse" than them on some magical scale they came up with.
  I fought for my state's free range chicken law, but I wouldn't fight for bans of consuming chicken or eggs. I would love a law that banned chick-killing (the practice of immediately killing all newborn chickens of the "wrong gender" when reselling chickens to farms or growing egg breeds). I'm sure they'd find a way around that. Despite that, I'll still eat chicken.
- Same here. I'm nominally vegan but coeliac disease limits most meal options - I'll still glady eat meat if available.

"You ever plow a field? To plant the quinoa or sorghum or whatever the hell it is you eat. You kill everything on the ground and under it.
You kill every snake, every frog, every mouse, mole, vole, worm, quail… you kill them all.
So, I guess the only real question is: how cute does an animal have to be before you care if it dies to feed you?”
-John Dutton
- Cows and chickens gotta eat too, and that food is coming from fields as well.
  By reducing meat consumption also way less critters will end up dying.
  
  I'm not here to reduce my meat consumption. It's at the perfect level.
  
  Are you from a farm town?
  A supermajority of animal feed comes from the waste product of crops we that were being grown anyway, or grass from a fallow field that needs to be harvested anyway (not enough the latter due to logistics, but my local farms all do). That whole "8 to 1" calorie to cow thing leaves out the part that it's 8 calories of landfill material to make 1 calorie of beef. Nobody has an "animal only" corn field. And nobody is using harsh animal-killing chemicals on the fallow fields.
  And cows are still being fed things whether you eat them or not. We need their manure and it's overall better for the environment than synthetic fertilizer. Without some form of fertilizer, we need much more farmland, which means more animals killed per calorie. All compared to 700,000 calories in a cow.
  Unfortunately, nobody has ever demonstrated in a defensible manner that a horticulture-only scenario would be anywhere near as efficient on animal lives as what we have now. It's one thing to cut animal intake 10%, entirely another to try to rebuild our farming industry without animals.

80k plants and vegans only eat like 20 anyway
- And half of them are actually just Brassica oleracea.

There's more than three animals that you can eat.
You don't even eat all 80000 of those plants.
Plants make excellent side dishes, unfortunately I can't spend a third of my day shoveling quinoa and lentils by the bucket load just to get enough protein, so meat it is.
I cut beef out of my diet almost entirely, both because it's unsustainable for the ecology (cattle require more resources per pound than any other animal) and because red meat isn't as good for you. Also it's expensive.
- This is the fair and balanced take. Of course it would be better for the planet and our wallets to not eat meat, but our diet more or less requires some amount of meat for iron and protein; the responsible thing to do is to be selective about types and frequency. We don't need meat in every single meal or even every single day, but you've got a better chance of pitching meatless Monday to most Americans than full vegetarianism. And even a small reduction is better than no reduction.
  
  Vegans, even life long vegans, exist. We do not need meat. And the reformist position overlooks the question whether it actually works. Convincing 10 people to CONSISTENTLY AND FOREVER decrease their meat intake by 10% is the same as convincing just 1 person to go vegan (aka 100% reduction). I don't have studies either way, but anecdotally people are extremely bad at keeping up dietary/lifestyle changes, but veganism is a lot simpler. "No animal products" is simpler than "have I reached my 90% yet?".
  Again, would love some studies on this, but it just seems more like wishful thinking. Additionally, we could just encourage both.
  
  Personally I like fish, I meal prep mostly with fish and they're far easier to farm and it's less damaging than most land animals.
  
  Of course it would be better for the planet and our wallets to not eat meat, but our diet more or less requires some amount of meat for iron and protein
  I think people really get a skewed view of this. It's better for our planets if we eat less meat, and if people who need high protein intake won't stop eating meat it's a bit better if you eat zero meat to competensate. But it's a "little vs a lot" thing . We still need meat to support the horticultural industry.
  I mean, the cows and pigs in my area serve the important purpose of providing much of the fertilizer for all the vegetable farms in my area. They would still be there, getting fed, if nobody ate them or drank their milk. Their deaths would just be more of a waste. There is a point where too many cows/pigs are producing more fertilizer than crop farms need. But you want to hear something scary? WE AREN'T THERE YET; not even close. In the US at least, we only produce enough manure to support 20% of livestock, and the rest is supplemented by compost and synthetic fertilizer. And that synethetic fertilizer? Pretty terrible for the ecosystem and wild animals as well.
  The real answer is that we haven't solved the problems. It does "feelgood" to know that we can genuinely help a little by eating a little less meat. And we should all be doing that. But all of us going vegan is a real problem for reasons unrelated to the (very real) nutritional issues.
- The meme is questionable, no argument (aren't most?)
  But point 3 is just straight up wrong.
  There's vegan body builders, including some that have literally never eaten a single piece of meat.
  There's also a SIGNIFICANT difference between "enough protein to be healthy" and "enough protein for my entirely optional hobby".
  90% of the (wannabe) body builders I know still supplement with artificial proteins (powders, shakes, bars, etc.). You could do the same with vegan sources
  Most people also forgo taste pleasure anyway, eating just rice and chicken, or plain greek joghurt. At that point, might as well eat a block of Tofu
  
  Counterpoint. Nutritionists (many, not all) tend to agree that protein is under-represented in the average non-plant-based diet already, and the body processes plant protein at 50-67% effectiveness compared to a similar amount of animal protein. And people with particular common medical issues have nutritional need for higher protein amounts. My wife's nutritionist wants her at 100-120g protein per day, counting plant proteins at 50% (so 240g if plant). Her food intake is about 12-1500kcal.
  I challenge you to find a healthy way to to hit 180-240g of protein at a reasonable calorie intake. The best I can find is about 20 to 1 (which would be 3600 calories of high-protein meals to hit 180g). Or she could eat one 600cal steak and then whatever else she plans on in the day.
  More importantly, my doctor wants me around the same, if only 100g. But I don't want to eat 3000calories a day.

Maybe it goes to show you just how yummy those 3 animals are?

- I'd sooner take those 80k dead plants, let them rot for a million years, and use them to fill up my pick up with gas.

Sorry, I'm trying. Honestly. I'm looking for vegan and vegetarian recipes and while it usually tastes "fine", it's mostly just "meh".
I don't get the hype for things like lentils or quinoa either. Both are "meh" at best.
So far, I'm unable to find meat-free recipes that truly satisfy me.
And no, I'm not a bad cook.
Tell me your reasonably priced vegan and vegetarian recipes that little children will eat, too. Serious request.
- As a fellow omnivore trying to eat more vegan/vegetarian recipes, I think rainbow plant life on YouTube has the best recipes that I've tried. If you've read Salt Fat Acid Heat, most/all of her recipes are based on that technique/ideology. Her red lentil curry is really good and I make a double batch about once every other month to keep in the freezer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHRyfEbhFFU
  I live with people that don't like coconut milk so I just use a mixture of heavy cream and milk. I also sub half of the red lentils for brown lentils for extra fiber.
  
  Thank you very much for the hint, I checked out the red lentil curry video and it does look quite delicious. Chicken curry is actually my favorite food and I tried green, brown and red lentil curry before, but didn't quite like them, even though I'm half asian, lol. I'll try her recipe, though.
  I personally love coconut milk.
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=BHRyfEbhFFU
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
- Tofu is pretty versatile as a meat replacement or even just a general texture thing. I like to fry small tofu cubes and use them in place of the cheese in palak paneer, or instead of chicken in something like General Tso's. It takes a bit more work since you have to press the tofu and find a good way to cook it so it doesn't turn out soggy (and it's usually more expensive), but I'm a meat eater and it's satisfying to me.
  Beyond/Impossible Meat is also pretty good imo. I actually tend to like it better than real beef, but that's definitely not a majority opinion. If you like the taste, you can crumble the patties for ground beef texture or break them into chunks for more of a meatball vibe. I've even done a sort of faux bulgogi with chunks and gochujang sauce that works surprisingly well.
  One more thing I think can help is to not try to replicate meat for everything. There are ways to make vegetarian/vegan food that let it stand on its own and still be satisfying (beans and chickpeas can help a ton), without it feeling like it's trying too hard to be meat. Things like cauliflower stir fried or batter fried and coated in some sort of sauce can be good just as cauliflower in sauce.
  Finally, mushrooms, if you like them. Soaking dried mushrooms will get you stock that can replace chicken or beef stock for most things, and frying even the cheap baby bella mushrooms that come pre washed and sliced can give you a meaty texture in something that needs it.
  
  We eat tofu every now and then and like it a lot and I did already try out some meat "substitutes" and some of them are actually pretty good, but not cost-effective. I'm not saying I have to look at every cent I spend, but things have gotten harder in recent years, not gonna lie.
  I don't need or want to replicate meat everywhere. I'm totally fine with non-meat dishes, but my complaint is that many of them don't taste as good as people (especially vegans) claim, even in restaurants. It's been quite disappointing multiple times to try that "really, really delicious curry", that in the end didn't really taste that great and it's been a recurring thing for me / us when trying to eat more plant-based foods. This is also true with cauliflower, for instance. I like it in "traditional" meals as side-dish, but no, to me, batter frying cauliflower doesn't make it good.
  Mushrooms are a staple in our cooking, because I really like my umami flavor (I also use MSG a lot), but unfortunately, my daughter doesn't like any type of mushroom. I guess, it's the texture. Tried several different things and she always puts them away.
  Anyway, thank you for your comment. Beyond meat has been on our "try out list" for quite some time.
- Try out Indian cuisine, we got a ton of great vegetarian food here but depending on where you are, getting all the good spices needed could be quite difficult and pricey.
- Sticky tofu is hands down my favorite. Something like this: https://veganonboard.com/sticky-lemon-tofu/
  Soy Curls is honestly my favorite 'meat replacement' (though, I'm not too hot on 'replacing meat'). They work for doing things like mongolian beef, or just lightly frying after marinading for 'chicken strips' to top salads or sandwiches. https://thevietvegan.com/vegan-mongolian-beef/
  Soups are of course, pretty easy. I like Lentil Chilli, heavy on the seasonings and beans aside from lentils. Minestrone or lemon orzo are both also great. Thai curry or pho are both more work imo, but amazing (though, both broth bases can often have chicken or shrimp in them).
  Burgers, and while impossible meat et. al. are fine I guess, they're a bit pricey. I honestly prefer a good chipotle black bean burger over them 9/10 times. They're pretty cheap to buy, but also not very hard to make, with most of the ingredients being cheap.
  I personally like seitan, but I know quite a few other vegetarians don't, so it might be divisive. BUT, in terms of cheap protein, its damn near rock bottom in price. It is some work to make stuff out of it from scratch, but 'indian mock duck' is usually seitan, and can be bought from indian stores if you just want to try it. But seitan works to replace burgers, chicken tenders, steaks, sausage, etc. Tons of recipes out there.
  
  Thank you very much for all your suggestions. In fact, I even plan to do my first seitan batch today. I'll follow this video and see how it goes.
  I'll save all your guys suggestions and try them out, thanks again!
- You need to try a lot "plant-based meat" products. Many of them are meh and taste like meat flavored cardboard, but I've personally found some that taste waaaay better than meat.
- Sloppy joe made with lentils is an easy dinner for a night and kids love a sloppy joe
  
  Seems to be pretty american. I'm from Germany and never had that.
- Ok, this is going to be long!
  I would advice, apart from tying out new recipes, try to look at how you cook rice, make a green salad and tomato based sauce again. Often there are a few basic things one can improve that elevate all other dishes as well. This doesn't have to be expensive, you save a lot of money by not buying the meat, after all.
  (A few of these things you will probably know, but perhaps you learn something new.)
  For rice try the following:
  most children prefer basmati rice and rice with tumeric
  cumin also tastes good in rice but not all kids like it
  most types of rice have to be rinsed a few times, a good job for kids lol
  when you let the rice soak in water (~30 min) after rinsing it, you get more predictable results
  when you want to fry the rice, use rice you cooked the day before
  try different rice varieties from different brands because they all tend to need a different amount of water for best results
  when your family really becomes rice fans invest in a good rice cooker because it saves time and older kids can make their own
  after cooking, let it steam for a few minutes on the turned-off stove
  For a good tomato sauce try the following:
  diced or crushed tomatoes in cans often have low quality, when using cans use whole peeled tomatoes and cut them when still in the can
  do not crush garlic, instead chop it very fine
  use a really good oil, it has to taste so good, you would eat it with bread with nothing else
  oil is a whole beast, try different types and be careful which of those can be heated to which temperature
  some finely chopped celery often tastes good in tomato sauce
  heat very slowly and don't make it boil, don't cook too long
  add sugar to taste, baking soda if it is too acidic
  add herbs only when the sauce is finished, perhaps add oil again
  some people think tomato sauce tastes better the next day
  Some tips to make your salad better:
  the oil hint from above
  for vinegar all the hints for oils apply
  mix something crunchy into your salad, many kids love sunflower seeds or peanuts, which are less expensive than walnuts and similar
  when you want roasted sunflower seeds, buy them raw and roast them shortly without oil in the pan until you can smell them
  wheat grains roasted taste great, they smell amazing as well
  top your salad with something hot, for example caramelized pear slices or seasoned tofu cubes, marinated fried champignons, etc.
  get a salad spinner if you don't have one already
  some children like vegetables raw they do not eat cooked, for example fine broccoli florets and zucchini slices
  good mustard or lemon juice on the side
  General tips for vegan and vegetarian recipes:
  a good rule when it has to go fast is: combine grain + green + bean
  experiment a lot with combinations of textures
  grating vegetables adds lots of moisture, can be good or bad...
  roast whole spices without oil until their smells hit you before you cut them and put them into your dishes
  make your own vegetable broth by freezing clean vegetable scraps (skins and ends) and simmer them when you have a bag full
  maple syrup + non-dairy milk mixed make a crust on baked goods
  infuse oil yourself with herbs, chilli, garlic
  learn to sauté a base of spices, garlic and onions before adding your ingredient
  learn how to make natto, get used to the taste and then addicted to it
  now that you are a pro with herbs, make your own fresh tea and experience a new world of taste
  Ingredients which you perhaps never used before but are very useful:
  nutritional yeast !!
  soak and blend cashews for a versatile cream base
  Kala Namak
  liquid smoke
  miso
  tamari
  seaweed
  the water from chickpea cans is aquafaba
- Honestly. I’m looking for vegan and vegetarian recipes and while it usually tastes “fine”, it’s mostly just “meh”.
  If it's about eating ethically, I highly suggest trying to eat locally instead. It's much better for the environment, and you can usually get a better nutritional balance.
  I mean, if eating "meh" makes you feel good, go for it. Just please make sure to study all the supplements you need and keep researching because there are regularly discoveries that might change the supplement intake you require.
  
  Transport is a teensy tiny part of the climate/environmental impact for food. In 99.9% of cases, a plant-based food will beat out any meat from next door.
  That being said, local in the sense things that actually grow locally and are in season is still a good idea, though more from a community building perspective.
- Sorry, trying? Don't let someone else tell you what to eat. You should not feel bad for eating meat as it is livestock raised to be consumed.
  
  Hmm. I make the decision myself, nobody is forcing me. I have moral concerns, I care about the environment and I also have health concerns, too.
  I'm not sure if I'll ever be vegetarian or vegan (I'd like to). For now, my goal is to reduce meat intake to one or maybe two times a week.

I resent that. I eat more than 3 species of animals.
- Bear is delicious
  
  Really? They have almost every hallmark of a bad-tasting meat. Highly muscular, non-herbivorous diet, etc.
  I mean, I'd still try it.
- Chicken, Beef, Pork, Fish/Seafood.. What am I missing from my diet? Reptile?
  
  Lamb, my dude.
  Get some lamb shanks braised with rosemary, mint, and onions.
  Come to think of it, is lamb a popular meat in the US? Here in Aus, its about on par with pork in popularity, after beef, then chicken.
  Kangaroo is available in supermarkets, but its only about 5% as popular as beef.
  
  Wild game: throw in rabbit, deer (or elk), buffalo, etc. Alligator is also quite tasty. Sheep, goat (man, nothing beats curry goat, let me tell you).

capitalism does not beget a wide range of meat for the average household. people eat "the same 3 dead animals" because it's what's affordable and even that's becoming less and less true
- Capitalism is what gives people access to meat for regular people...
  There are lots of types of meat you can have, like duck, chicken, seafood (don't really know how affordable seafood is), cow, turkey and whatever a hotdog is made from
- There's more than three affordable animals lmao. Even if you count fish as one you still have crawfish, shrimp, fish, beef, chicken, pork, lamb, venison, turkey, etc. This also doesn't even account for the million ways to prepare the meats.
  
  I'd say either you live somewhere where ALL those things are really cheap, or you don't know what it's like to be poor. I do well enough for myself and there are items in your list I wouldn't eat regularly even if I wanted, on price alone. Lamb and Venison are good examples, as are some fish despite the fact I live on the ocean. And Beef and Pork (I don't get this one) prices have skyrocketed of late around here.
  
  Rabbit
  
  I don't know where you live but lamb, venison, a lot of fish, and seafood in general is not affordable in many parts of the US at least. Beef, chicken and pork are the big three basically at least in my experience

If I wasn't meant to eat pigs, why is every single part of a pig so damn delicious?
- It's pretty ironic that ribs evolved to prevent a pig from being killed
- I'd easily eat humans if it were legal and they processed in our bodies correctly! I don't get it, why you would want to let all that meat go to waste?
  
  you are aware animals eat animals right

I mean I think it's pretty telling that there are lots of plant based versions of meat based food, but not the other way around. Nobody is trying to replicate the taste of salads in meat form
- Probably because there's not really an ethical concern over eating (most) plants. You're making a false equivalence.
  
  I would say that's not really true. Of course there's ethical concerns about eating most plants, regardless of whether a specific person holds those concerns or not. Eating local has been an important ethical push since before veganism ever took the spotlight. In my state, it's always been about "eat local, save the environment" and "eat local, support our farmers". Always.
  I grew up knowing that a local clam chowder was simply the right option over getting corn shipped in from Idaho. We have some local corn farmers and I'll buy a bag every year at harvest time, but otherwise I don't eat corn.
  In return, you better believe people DO have local-food recipes that try to replicate non-local foods. We do curries of local veg instead of traditional veg (despite the presence of Asian markets), etc etc.
  It's just that it's easier to make a good and balanced meal without "Faking it" when that meal contains meat.
- Outside of some fad diets, there isn't really much of a push among anyone to cut plants out of your diet though. There's no need to make fake plant-products generally.
  
  I wouldn't call Keto a fad diet at this point. It's one of the most popular diets in the world often recommended by doctors to their patients (especially patients with Type 2 Diabetes)
- I mean, there's quite a bit of "faking it" for Keto as well. Trying to replicate grains and grain products in particular. Pork Rinds are advertised as an alternative to chips. And look up "Fathead Dough" recipe. Yes, some of the replacements are still plant, but the idea is to add a bunch of egg, cheese, and animal fat to bind together Almond Flour into a cohesive dough for breads and pizza crusts.
- And what does it tell you?

Beef/lamb/pork/chicken/seafood eater 4 life.

All these tasty meats and people decide to eat what the food eats.
- All of these ways to be less cruel to other lifeforms and people decide to cause suffering out of ignorance.

To be fair, one of those three animals basically perfected it's flavor to the point where everything else tastes just like it.
- There are so many other birds out there that we've stopped eating. I am doing my part to bring back the eating of swans, geese, pheasants, ducks of all kinds, ostriches, emus, quail, pigeons and rare parrot. It seems unfair that chickens get all the love.
  
  I dunno man that sounds like a bit much. I prefer my parrot well done.
  
  Duck and quail are absolutely amazing, and way better than chicken. I really like pigeon too.
  Quail eggs are the best, albeit annoying to work with.
  
  I'm so hungry.... rabbit is s good tho.

Most people are going to say beef, chicken, and pork.
Yet goat is the most popular meat worldwide. And I'm good with that, those weird-eyed hellspawn need to die.
- Goats are goated though.
  They are our protection against the holy army who are coming to rapture (kidnap) us.
  Hail the goat.

ok vegan

I’ve eaten chicken, turkey, sheep, cow, pig, duck, rabbit, snail, deer and horse. It’s a bit more than 3, and that’s just the general category (for example, counting boars and pigs as only one type) and only land animals. If we list each fish species, crabs, squids, calamari…
- You eat that varied on a daily, or even weekly, basis?
  
  Chicken, pork, beef. Duck is common in Asian cuisines. Turkey is common in Western cuisines. Lamb is super common in many cuisines and my personal favorite meat. Bison burgers are popular in many places (dad loves them and so does my work cafeteria). There are dozens of varieties of seafood - but to be generous let's say it's just three groups: shells, scales, crustaceans. That's already 10 types of 'meat' that people eat semi-regularly, not including the different aspects/preparation of those selections. Hardly a lack of options!
  
  Well no, I dont eat that much meat. I usually eat chicken, turkey and bit of pork and beef. Lamb is much rarer and snails are more of a social food that I don't cook at home, so I only eat them like 6-8 times a year.
  I do eat different kinds of fish regularly, though, and I eat a healthy amount of veggies and non-animals but they also aren't that varied. Like I usually eat rice, potatoes, artichokes, eggplant, lettuce, spinach, broccoli, lentils, peppers and soy products (tofu, miso paste, etc) + aromatics like onion and garlic.
  
  I hope not. Far better for the world (and animal welfare ironically) is to eat locally (which is impossible for vegans in most regions). It's simply better for me to eat local proteins (still more than 3 - chicken, pork, beef, shrimp, halibut, cod, and I'm allergic to others but other people eat them) with produce I buy from the farm down the street than for me to grab an Avacado ("from Mexicooooo")
  ...but to your point, most people have favorites or patterns/habits. Before I became allergic to clams, milk, and scallops, I would eat Clam Chowder or family-fished scallops virtually every day.

Question: For any aspiring vegetarians/vegans, what are the best foods to ease the transition?
For instance, I'd ideally be looking for something with complete protein and few to no additional carbs, to be accompanied by the vegetable dishes I already eat. Beyond meat tastes great but still manages to find exemplary ways to be unhealthy with things like saturated fats, and probably doesn't do much to resolve any exploitation issues, though it at least appears to be a step in the right direction.
For people looking to move to vegetarianism, possibly as a bridge to veganism, could it reasonably be said that animal products from animals raised in cruelty free and free range conditions are ethical? Can any organizations assure that?
- Lentils and mushrooms are high in protein and have a mealy texture with a give. They've been my best friends during becoming vegetarian :) Legumes in general are a good bet if you're a fan of them.
  It's hard to find animal products you can be sure are cruelty free, unless you get them from a farm where you're familiar with the owners, and you don't consider animal products to be inherently unethical.
  
  I work at a health food store chain and we have allegedly "extremely high standards" for eggs and meat BUT I always wondered how true that really is.
  
  Most vegan food is awful if you don't like lentils tbh.

Buckwheat (must buy eastern european kind) with diced avocado thrown in and a few pinches of salt is the shiznitz.
If I had to choose only one meal to eat for the rest of my life - this would be it.
edit: buckwheat prep: boil for 10-20 mins until most of the water boils away. Add some water if it boils away too soon. Leave some water/moisture to boil away while it's cooling and not to get buckwheat burned and stuck on the pot surface. Throw in some diced avocado chunks. Add salt to bring out the buckwheat flavor. Done.

Potato, rice, grain... What's the rest?

Hahahaha, what a funny meme here on c/memes. I'm literally laughing my ass off.

Almost correct. It's 6 dead animals in my case actually

your grocery stores have more than 30 kinds of vegetable?
- There's bland salad, bland tomatoes, bland onions, potatoes, an assortment of bland root things, a couple bulby things that taste kinda terrible, and some fruits.
  
  Of which anything more exotic than peaches costs an arm and a leg, of course.

3? Really?

Eat steak, eat steak eat a big ol' steer
Eat steak, eat steak do we have one dear?
Eat beef, eat beef it's a mighty good food
It's a grade A meal when I'm in the mood.
-Reverend Horton Heat

- Yes. Cook it with bacon or in bacon grease.
- Does pleasure justify killing someone sentient?

The way forward is encouraging people to try better things. The warmth and joy of food is felt through the people that make it. Affordable and accesssible healthy food is becoming a custom, so migration from processed foods is easier.
- Insects!

I love taste.
It's far easier to slap a chook in the oven and end up with something delicious than what I've been able to figure out that's only plant based.
- That is really sad. Cooking is a valuable skill to learn and easy as well.
  
  They said they were using an oven... So they obviously know how to cook. No reason to be sad.

And yet the most consumed plant in the US is one that is barely edible for humans, and inedible for most the animals we feed it to.

But... I haz both.

Same 3? Lol please.
I just eat what I like.
- Oh, apple! Same as eggplant and kiwi:
  They taste like pain.
  I always thought “an apple a day keeps the doctor away“ was something parents said because children would rather eat a painful fruit like a kiwi than visit a doctor. Turns out apples don’t taste like pain. I’m allergic to them. Like, all-variants-they-sell-in-local-supermarkets allergic.
  
  I used to be allergic to apples as well. Couldn't have apples, peaches, cherries, pistachios, macadamia nuts, and a handful of other foods that I can't remember. Went nearly a decade with allergic reactions. Then just a few years ago, it all went away. I can't even begin to express how satisfying a perfectly ripe peach is, now that my mouth and throat doesn't start to swell.
  
  If we're putting bacon, sausages, cutlets, and ribs in the same category because "it's all pig". Then I want to make sure that bulb onions, shallots, scallions, and leeks are also counted as one thing because they're all just onions.
  Look me in the eye and tell me that bulb onions and shallots are different but bacon and cutlets aren't.

Did you want another corona? Because this is how we get more corona.
- The fuck are you on about?
  
  Did you not know?

Frogs aren't vegan 😂

Cool, vegans are invading this community. You're all insufferable.
- You're the ones hurting innocent animals almost entirely for pleasure or convenience. Someone innocent getting hurt completely unnecessarily is good reason to cause a ruckus
  
  Listen. If you personally are against eating meat and choose not to, great, I'm happy for you. But going and giving other people shit for their own dietary choices is as bad and obnoxious as telling people they shouldn't have abortions. Shut the fuck up and let people live, you're only making people hate you.
  
  You do realize stopping the meat industry altogether implies letting all livestock die, right? Very few people could afford keeping a cow or a pig as a pet and without the financial incentive there, farmers wouldn't waste their money feeding the livestock. They can no longer survive in the wild.
  I'm not in favour of how it works right now either, I'm all for more animal rights and better conditions, but to think we could just stop and everything would be nice is just plain naive.

Find me a plant that tastes like a nice hamburger and I'm sold.
- Plant-based meat has been a thing for a hot minute so I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make
  edit: for chicken nugget enjoyers, I like the morningstar farms equivalent. Pop in the toaster over/air fryer, coat in sweet & sour or orange sauce, put on a bed of rice, + sprinkle some sesame seeds on top. ooh that shit's so good
  
  It's the default reponse to a shitpost like the above mainly. 80,000 plants don't make a good hamburger unless the cow does the work processing it into beef first.

Most food animals would go extinct if humans stopped raising them for food. A number of food plants too.
- Why would that be an issue? Those animals only live lives of suffering and the environment would benefit greatly if we stopped breeding them.
  
  Domesticated species are selectively bred by humans to enhance characteristics we find desirable. Many of these characteristic would be weeded out by natural selection within one generation. Cultivated banana trees, for example, cannot reproduce; and Dairy cows can die if not milked regularly.
  That's a big part of what makes them "domesticated".
- A "food animal" ... Most of the animal breeds slaughtered for meat were basically genetically modified through selective breeding by humans to be more profitable.
  Fast and unhealthy growth of muscle mass, additional rips, laying eggs much more often, etc.
  These modification come with a great price the animals have to pay in pain. Most of them can't live without human help anymore. We made them this way and we are responsible. To keep them in an endless cycle of suffering after we created them like this is probably the pinnacle of cruelness. And all of that just because they have a voice we do not understand or recognise.

I mean, if any of those 80,000 plants pack as much protein as any of the dead animals I'm all ears
- All legumes.
  And you don't need that much protein. 10% of your calory intake is enough, even if you're living a sporty lifestyle. People overthink their protein need all the time—I blame the sports nutrition industry and their aggressive marketing campaigns.
  
  You gotta spell calorie right to be taken seriously my guy
- I love me some boiled lentils and chickpeas. Put a bit if olive oil on them and whatever spices you like (I like citric-y stuff like coriander, lime juice) and bam. Goes great with sundried tomatoes and maybe some chopped cucumber.
- Personally I've given up trying to convince those with the "meat is better" mentality... been vegan for years, vegetarian before that. Just happy to see you fighting the good fight. Thank you!
  
  the dead bodies of sentient beings
  Some thoughts — the appeal to emotion is always going to be a turnoff here. Every time. I do get it, but if the people you were trying to convince cared about how fluffy and sad their food was, they would already be vegetarian.
  Also, don't think I won't eat a human just because they're sentient. Or an ostrich. Have you ever met an ostrich? They're unapologetic dickheads. I'll eat an ostrich's babies on purpose. So mostly it qualifies as a guilt trip that goes nowhere, especially for those who hunt animals that need frequent culling like deer.
  I think just trying to convince people to try recipes is more likely to hit, because who doesn't want something new and inexpensive that they don't have to feel fat about?
  On that note, thank you for the reminder that I do really need to try tofu. I keep meaning to and forgetting, was not aware til last year how much protein it actually has (plants have a terrible rep), and I'm just gonna plan a dish at random and set a whole reminder for myself at this point. This is ridiculous. Would there be anything off the top of your head that's your favorite?
- Google search: https://youaligned.com/wellness/vegetables-pack-protein-meat/

animal nutrition > plant nutrition. Gram for gram.
and there are essential nutrients in animals that you just cannot get, from plants.
1 cow can feed a whole person for a year.
- The first two statements are bold claims to make I'd like to see some credible sources on this.
  The last one which I'm also not sure is true one could put in context. E.g. as a comparison how much acres of land/ water/ energy does it use compared to vegetables.
  
  https://www.webmd.com/diet/difference-between-animal-protein-plant-protein
  https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/plant-based-diets-are-best-or-are-they-2019103118122
  Basically it's harder to achieve all essential amino acids in a plant based diet. Animal protein is also linked to lower stroke risk and diabetes, but can lead to higher heart disease. Overall it's not absurd to say animal protein is better than plant protein.
  On the last comment: https://rainbowrunfarm.com/how-many-people-can-a-cow-feed/
  This source claims one cow can feed one person for 8 years, but that feels a bit absurd so I did my own math. 80% lean beef contains 1152 calories per pound. Meaning at 2000 calories a day one person eats 1.74 pounds per day.
  https://beef.unl.edu/beefwatch/2020/how-many-pounds-meat-can-we-expect-beef-animal
  This source claims about 880ibs of useful meat is available on the average cow, meaning one person can survive for 505 days on one cow, or 1.38 years.
  The third source claims one acre per cow raised is the land needed for grazing. Checking other sources this seems to be the general consensus on cattle to acre ratio.
  https://permaculturism.com/how-much-land-does-it-take-to-feed-one-person/
  This source claims you need 1.69 acres of land to raise all the required plants in order to feed yourself for one year. Therefore raising the cow and eating it would be a more viable space.
- Which is weird. I don't know how they even hold the fork.
  
  Nice one, Doug
  
  Well obviously it doesn't hand feed the human
  It barfs pre-chewed grass into the humans mouth, much like a bird feeds its young
- and there are essential nutrients in animals that you just cannot get, from plants.
  Such as?
  And where do the animals get them from?
  
  Such as?
  Omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, vitamin A, choline, etc...
  And where do the animals get them from?
  Many animals are capable of synthesizing these compounds, but humans are not. Our bodies stopped producing them since we could get them through our omnivorous diet.
  Vegans can of course take supplements for these, so you can get enough of them, but you do have to think about it and take the right supplements to prevent deficiencies.
- I'm glad I really enjoy meat and dairy because as much as I want to eat other stuff I get really sick especially with any grain or fruit.
  
  🤔 Maybe you have a gluten sensitivity or allergies

Do you know what those self-mummifying japanese monks ate to mummify themselves? Plants. Not even very many plants.
I don't want to be a mummy.
- This is definitely a sane and logical take. I've been eating plants for almost a year and no meat. Not only am I still waiting for my soy manboobs to come in but in surprisingly not a mummy lol.
- I haven't eaten meat for over thirty years and feel great! Diet is a big part, but I also regularly exercise.

and after eating all 80.000 you'll still be hungry and feeling a bit weak...
face it, humans are omnivore we will always need both to thrive, balance is key
- Meat is not essential for human diet. However, many of the nutrients found in meat are essential for our health. Protein, iron, and B vitamins are just some of the nutrients found in meats. Meat provides our bodies with proteins, vitamins, and minerals that are necessary for proper muscle and organ function.
  Sure there is a pill for everything but its the same as getting a IV with fluids instead of drinking. You will still be thirsty... again finding balance is the key, not every meal requires meat.
- I haven't eaten meat in almost a year and my fat ass is not exactly starving.
  
  cookies aint animals are they 🤣