How many goddamn wars over this do we need
How many goddamn wars over this do we need
192 comments
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Iiiiiiiits NAZI PUNCHING TIME!!!!!
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These days, and especially with the continuing shift to the right in Europe, I'm repeatedly asking myself what the attractiveness of these ideologies is, that so many people again fall for them. They represent destruction not future. They do not have a plan for the future, they are only "against" everything good.
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They construct an ideology where everything was great way back when foreign powers were jealous of our national heritage and destroyed everything. It's a very easy to grasp and convenient myth, since your nation becomes the main character of history.
Nationalism/patriotism is very succeptible to falling for fascist ideology. Therefore, everyone waving their national flag with pride is sus to me.
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Same thing any "in group" feeds on: self esteem. If you feel powerless, or worthless, or rudderless, any group that makes you feel powerful, valuable, and effective is going to be very appealing. Conservatives (read: fascists) prey on this. They make it seem like joining them is brave, and important. And since their followers lack identity and purpose, their self worth becomes entangled with [in group], be it closeted fascism such as the American GOP, or flaming such as Q/proud boys/whatever. And since their identity and value depends on the perpetuation and proliferation of their in group, they willingly accept lies and falsehood. Pretty easy to gaslight someone who's encouraging it.
Then when they wear their symbols of hate, or make shocking claims, or in anyway troll and grief society, up to and including dismantling democracy, they get a reaction. They've exerted their will on the world around them, and as such they feel powerful. The insidious bit is, even if the good guys win, with all their high falutin factual arguments and social programs, it just makes these sad people angier and feel worthless again. So they go right back to their pimps for some more sweet lies and marching orders.
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How do I upvote a comment twice?
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This is spot on and something I teach in social psychology. One thing that helps is increasing membership in other groups so that the dismantling of one group doesn't fracture their self identity. Granted I usually teach this with more benign examples (e.g. if you're a "good student" and get a bad grade, it hurts more depending on how important it is to your identity). But the idea is the same.
A few things you can look up though: cognitive dissonance, confirmation biases, contact hypothesis, and probably a few more. The funny thing is, social psychology as a discipline boomed after WW2 because people wanted to know why Nazis were Nazis. It's only recently we also realized that social rejection uses the same parts of the brain as physical pain, though.
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Fascism preys on the ideas of regime change and stagnation. Physically, a government wishing to gather power through voters will promise new public works, a focus on workers, and the general embetterment of society. Ideologically, fascism promises a purging of those in power, those that lead the stagnation and bad working conditions that started the movement. They conveniently pin in on a group of people or a few undesirable groups to appeal to a large number of the population and then make a grab for power. Bad times and stagnation create fascism.
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They are looking for a community that accepts them. That's why they are usually from broken poor white people with drug problems. Their parents are absent in many ways and are looking for somewhere to belong.
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It provides easy answers.
You're a good strong person. They're bad people. All your problems are their fault
Most people love feeling like they're part of a group.
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People want quick solutions to complicated problems. What quicker solution is there to all of your problems than blaming it on a disadvantaged group of people and persecuting them for it?
They never realize it's not an effective solution until they're way too established in the "kill the X" mode.
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Why are you assuming most people care or are capable of reasoning about some vague "future"? Right now they feel disenfranchised because right now some
<insert slur>
is getting uppity.
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How are these people not named and shamed? They are just standing there in public with no mask on wearing a swastika and giving a nazi salute? And then, what, they go back to selling real estate or what..? When is this even from?
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Picture is from 2010 in Knoxville Tennesee. Can't find any other info on the girl:
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Needs a snopes status for "They're still fucking Nazis, man"
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I wonder if she knows the Jan 6 girl from knoxville. Who was upset the cops pushed her out of the capitol and she got maced
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Thanks for the Snopes link, that gave some more context. I still can't believe no one figured out who she and the others are. It's just mind boggling to me, maybe because she's young-ish, that no one was like oh my god is that Sharon??
I mean, that someone can live and do whatever they do, show up to this event with no mask and do this, and then go back to living a normal life is crazy to me. People lose their jobs for saying something racist on camera, and this person is full nazi-ing it up seemingly with no social consequences.
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Goddamn, why is it always Knoxville with the racist stuff. We're not all bad!
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Because most of them have no jobs and live off the gov. While talking shit about people who aren't racist cock wagons, that use gov support. So they have nothing to lose.
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NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF 👊🏼
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Don't think I've seen a bigger oxymoron before... The definition of punk is being anti-authoritarian.
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It's in reference to the Dead Kennedys' song with that same title. There was a rise in far right "punk music" along with early skinhead (neo-nazi) movement when the song was written. Nazi punks were trying to flood the scene and people were not letting them.
"Nazi punks" beat the oxymoron by being anti-authoritarian, just depending on who's authority they reject.
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We also had a war over being a conservative Loyalist, vs a proud progressive patriot, but people seem to forget that happened.
You don't get to be a regressive conservative, and be a proud American
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Approximately one war every 80 years is what we're on pace for.
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Well the US was very much in love with the nazi party until it became politically inexpedient. Then they pretended they never were but didn't actually change anything
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"The US" was very much in love? NO, a lot of Americans were. But the US was NOT in love with the Nazi party. And if you mean, "when Americans realized how horrible the Nazi's were", instead of "politically inexpedient", then maybe I can agree with you.
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The Nazi party's racist ideology was based off of the Eugenics movement that started in the US. Fascism has a bit of history in the US as well, besides the NYC Nazi rally.
Mussolini seemed to think that FDR was the same as him: https://italoamericano.org/the-italian-connection-roosevelt-mussolini/
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Have anything to back that up?
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You're kidding, right? I mean that very sincerely, this is incredibly well documented
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Honest question, did we fight the Nazis because they were Nazis as we know them today (genocidal/racist/fascist)? Or did we fight the Nazis because they were attacking our allies?
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The US government under Roosevelt was opposed to the Nazis from the start, before WW2 began, on account of its fascist character.
While America was deeply racist at the time, it was also very unevenly racist, and even prominent Nazi fellow-travelers like Charles Lindbergh expressed revulsion at the level of Nazi racism displayed.
The genocide proper didn't begin until WW2, and by the time we were already, for all practical purposes, 'in the game', so to speak.
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That's a complicated question without a clear answer. It's hard to establish the motivations of an individual person, but much harder when you're talking about the entire country. Generally, people were united in the war effort, but for a variety of reasons. The NYT downplayed the Holocaust and specifically tried to avoid focusing on antisemitism, in part because they were worried that people wouldn't like the idea of fighting a war to protect Jewish people, as racism and antisemitism were very much present. On the other hand, you had people like folk singer Woody Guthrie who explicitly connected the war to anti-fascism in his songs. But there were also plenty of people and media who had been praising Hitler, before he started invading everywhere.
Basically there were lots of reasons for lots of people to dislike the Nazis, so it's kind of hard to detangle who was motivated by what and to what degree. Generally though, if they had kept to their own borders, it's unlikely that any other country would have invaded them just for being fascists, and many countries went through great lengths not to go to war with them, because nobody wanted to recreate the devastation of WWI. Even then the US wasn't willing to get directly involved until it was directly attacked.
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Uhh…yes, because yes. They didn’t just burst onto the scene after Kristallnacht but once the regular folk see the pogroms it’s suddenly a war crime
If you grab a book on Henry ford and his ilk then you’ll need a book on Reconstruction and then a book on plantations, etc. This is a country by and for land owning white men so there was a lot of stern words before the Infamous day, after that it was a mix of actual Steve Rogers and the same robber barons getting richer but we mostly agreed with the Reich until it hit our shores.
If Japan stuck to their close neighbors and ze Germans just annexed Western Europe…we probably wouldn’t have all the beach landings and such, see again Ford and his friend list.
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Because they attacked, I am fairly certain.
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Because you got invaded. Nothing else.
Churchill (part American) always thought the Americans would join the war but they didn't.
Germany was getting held up in Russia and Japan attacked America. Hitler thought if he declared war on America then Japan would declare war on Russia. Hitler was more worried about Russia so it was a good trade. Unfortunately for him Japan kept they pact of non aggression with Russia so it just caused him another enemy.
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Read Eisenhowers D-Day remarks. Most Americans believed the Nazis were a genuinely dangerous, oppressive evil that, left unchecked, were likely to subjugate the whole of Europe. Both their ideology and methods had to be rebuked on a moral level.
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It would be too simple to say either. Societies are diverse with multiple viewpoints.
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Both. The autocratic bend that was already known of provided plenty of fuel for the pro-war camp, and it was a lot of what motivated Roosevelt to want to back the Allies as much as he was legally allowed.
Pearl Harbor was a tragedy, but as Churchill is attributed to have said, never let a good crisis go to waste.
Japan basically provided all the excuse the pro war camp needed to leeroy jenkins themselves at Hitler's face.
We built the bomb with the intention of using them on Germany, that is the kind of axe you've got to grind with someone who you hate for a lot more reasons than just that they socked your best mate.
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Every year, we open up a stadium for a giant Pro Slavery + Pro Nazi + Pro Confederacy rally. At the end of the rally, we lock all the doors and sell everyone in the stadium to the highest-bidding slavers.
Everyone at the rally gets to enjoy their pro-slavery desires and everyone else is rid of them. Win-win.
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um... who do we sell them to? if it's someone outside the stadium, aren't they also pro-slavery? wouldn't that mean they'd also be in the stadium? also, wouldn't we, then, end up with a lot of slaves?
this seems like a bad idea for a few reasons, the least of which is the hypocrisy...
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Evil never rests. Neither should we
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She's a Nazi, George.
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You don’t get to be a German and not feel pain - a lot of pain.
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But not yours to bare my German brother from across the pond.
Germany has learned ( IMO) that while nazi party rose in Germany. Germany isnt the Nazi party. The United States never learned the lessons from this historical past.
Danke
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Well said. And Fck AfD. You guys keep fighting the good fight.
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(bear)
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As an American, you're far ahead of many of my countrymen
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There were also wars of "being a Native American and being allowed to live" Vs "fucking dying".
I guess wars aren't always a good metric.
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Relevant for over 44 years:
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Where do you even get a T-shirt like that?
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China. Shipping is a little more but god damn they're cheap.
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What is IE 33 ?
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They want to end Edge and bring back Internet Explorer. It'll start over at IE 33 since 33x3=88, which means Heil Hitler in super secret numerology.
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That was painful. The kind of painful, over-thought joke I would make. Thanks, I hate both of us. >:C
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Looks like a Treaty between the US and Cherokee.
Surprisingly, doesn’t seem to be anything particularly controversial about it.
I’m assuming these assholes are there to shit on the Cherokee for being under US protection or something? Idk.
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How old is this picture? Those are some giant pixels
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I wonder why she's doing that.
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Infused brain rot.
"Which would you rather believe? That you belong to a community of warriors battling a secret evil, or that you're a lonely, inconsequential nobody that no one will remember?"
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Well, I know which of those is true.
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This country was built on the broken bodies of the victims of slavery, genocide, and exploitation. The soil is rotten, and the tree that grows there bears rotten fruit.
Confederate, slaver, nazi, Proud American, these are all synonyms.
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That is literally every country on earth. The human condition is slavery, genocide, and exploitation, which is why we are the only species left in the genus Homo. This is not a uniquely American thing.
We are far more like ants in our eusociality, and all we can do is hopefully recognize that tribalism for what it is and try to do/be better as we move forward.
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she smells like onions lol
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Butt my free-dumb!!?
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we will need them until capitalism ends
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Based
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literally
You know, other adverbs exist.
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Did we metaphorically have a war over these things? With metaphorical Henrys and metaphorical M1 Garands?
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A lot of projecting there from someone who probably doesn't have enough of a problem with Trump to vote against him.
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So which part of this did you think qualifies as "projecting," liberal?
The part where you and your fellow libs have always been fine with white supremacism as long as it's the "nice" kind?
Or the part where you won't lift a finger to stop the overt white supremacist fascists because you know who it is that will be protecting your precious status quo when the poor start revolting?
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Say the line, Bart!
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Correction:
Liberals hate Trump because he says the quiet part out loud and he is popular for it.
It's absolutely vexing
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It’s absolutely vexing
There's absolutely nothing vexing about it at all - not if you understand the true nature of the relationship between liberalism, capitalism and fascism... which, of course, is yet another aspect of the part which shouldn't be talked about (and I have the angry liberal downvotes to prove it, too)
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You don’t get to be a proud american period, since the Confederacy lost the battle but won the war (see the thirteenth amendment) and the USA inspired and created the Nazis (Ford/Rockefeller funding for instance) and then rescued thousands of their leaders after WW2 (Operation Paperclip, Operation Bloodstone). What’s the difference between Nazis and a society that rescues them?
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Wait till OP learns about what America did to non-white people in its' history.
The Nuremberg race laws were inspired by JimCrow and were actually less restrictive.
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Wait until ButtHurt hears that that's literally what we're talking about and their 'gotcha' is meaningless bullshit.
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It sure is, buddy. /s
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192 comments