Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established
Hamas official says group would lay down its arms if an independent Palestinian state is established
The comments by Khalil al-Hayya came amid a stalemate in months of cease-fire talks. But it's unlikely Israel would consider such a scenario.
A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.
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Two issues. The first is that they aren't going to get pre-1967 borders. The larger more important point though is that Hamas just admitted they aren't a legitimate government power and are actually terrorists instead. Own goal.
Terrorism is a verb.
Terrorists are people that commit terrorism.
Official count is now 42,000 dead Palestinians, but that is because the ability to count the dead no longer exists. The number is probably closer to 100,000
Israeli doctors have come forward to detail how amputations are regular for Palestinian prisoners who have been zip tied for months now.
Any definition of terrorism that includes Hamas, also includes the Israeli government.
Edit: recognizing your username, now is when you'll call me antisemitic.
The number is probably closer to 100,000
Based on what exactly?
Based on time under starvation conditions, the mass graves the IDF seems constitutionally incapable of not leaving behind, and counts of missing family members.
It is interesting that Lemmy is so small that I can recognize the usernames of genocide defenders so easily.
Tell me: is there any line crossed, any action taken by the IDF that you wouldn't automatically defend?
Do you think it is right that Palestinians prisoners should be zip tied long enough that their limbs die and need too be cut off?
Based on time under starvation conditions, the mass graves the IDF seems constitutionally incapable of not leaving behind, and counts of missing family members.
Can you share your methodology of calculating this number? You are not basing this on anything but your gut-feeling. Given how most of your comments consist of blindly parroting propaganda instead of even trying to form any in-depth understanding of this topic, that's not surprising. Hell, you once attacked me for trying to bring nuance into this debate, at which point I was done with you for that day, because could there be anything more intellectually bankrupt?
is there any line crossed, any action taken by the IDF that you wouldn’t automatically defend?
Sure thing. If orders to deliberately exterminating Palestinians came to light, that would certainly be it. Those should exist if the goal of the IDF, as frequently claimed by people like you who make up fantasy numbers to then feel outraged about, was genocide. Of course, this clashes with various efforts of the same IDF to prevent Palestinian civilians from being harmed, which is kind of odd, don't you think?
So either they are using e.g. roof knocking and a whole range of other warning measures just for PR-purposes (even though it significantly hurts their military efforts and their PR - Hamas can escape and the moment any building is being roof-knocked, dozens of cameras are immediately on it in order to film it, with lots of people feeling perfectly safe, trusting that this building and only this building will be hit; strange that) or the truth isn't as simple as you are so desperately trying to make it be. You haven't exactly been writing particularly well thought out comments on this topic at any point. Not that this limits your enthusiasm for your self-righteous preaching. Dunning, meet Kruger.
Do you think it is right that Palestinians prisoners should be zip tied long enough that their limbs die and need too be cut off?
No, but good job trying distracting from your fantasy numbers. This might constitute criminal neglect. Those responsible should be punished and measures should be undertaken to prevent this from occurring. While internal review processes are far from perfect at the IDF, they do at least exist and are being applied. Two senior officers responsible for ordering the recent air strikes on aid workers were sacked, for example. The same could happen here as well.
I would like to bring this back around to said mass graves the IDF is denying:
That takes more than a couple of people
Said mass graves that have been there for longer than the IDF? Of course they are denying them.
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180
Nitter link (might not always be working):
https://nitter.poast.org/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360892249612466#m
GAZA STRIP: Famine is imminent as 1.1 million people, half of Gaza, experience catastrophic food insecurity - Integrated Food Security Phase Classification (IPC)
Would you mind providing the source of this visualization so that I can read further into this? Thanks!
Merci.
Yeah that's it. It's a screenshot of the snapshot PDF they provide. Thanks TokenBoomer
You're at the very least anti-partsofspeech.
You just got downvoted for correctly realizing that terrorism is literally a noun. Strange times.
My comment was terrorismed.
I didn't downvote you, but I didn't understand your comment are all. But, I probably couldn't diagram a sentence anymore.
But, at the risk of being stupid here, wouldn't terrorist be the noun and terrorism the verb?
Terrorist is someone who uses violence against a civilian population to enact political change, and terrorism is the act of using violence against a civilian population to enact change?
Thanks for asking. I respect that.
Terrorism is a noun. It is the use or act of political violence to create fear in a populace. It's a little tricky because those sound like doing something, which would be a verb. But we're describing the thing those people are doing.
Terrorists do acts of terrorism. People do things. What do they do? They terrorize. They terrorized. They will terrorize. She terrorizes. That's the verb.
Terroristic would be the adjective.
Huh, okay, I think I see where you are coming from.
The only issue I have with trouble with understanding is that I don't think terrorism and terrorize can be considered the same word.
If I'm a terrorist, I do a terrorism, I don't terrorize.
Similarly, I terrorize my cats when the get poop on a paw with water, but I don't commit a terroristic act against them when I wash their feet
Of course, I think most of that comes from creaturely a poorly defined word with an amorphous meaning that is based off of, but isn't, a similar word.
Terror may be a root word for terrorism, but I fell like the definition has changed enough that the conjugation is different
I honestly don't understand how people who think this is easy can think math is hard.
Than you got your previous response, too. I did find out useful.
Edit: to be clear, I am fully aware I have no idea what I'm talking about here, language wise, so the above 'I think I can see where you were coming from' was meant more as a 'I think I understand'
It's fair to say "terrorize" isn't a verb that fits well. But then we're left with "doing" being the verb in "doing terrorism." And "terrorism" in that context is a thing - a noun.
Most "isms" are nouns. Mormonism, romanticism, communism, terrorism. Romanticists romanticize and are different than romantics who romance. Communists don't really commune. There's really no Mormonizing.
Thanks for that explanation!
I get that this is the other side of the conflict, but this is a whataboutism. All of that which you wrote can be true without invalidating what the previous person wrote.
When one side is committing a genocide and intentionally killing children then maybe, just maybe, it's important to call that out.
What the OP did was try to justify an ongoing genocide by calling the other side terrorists.
That is what you're defending by calling responses to that as whataboutism. Good job.
One side? Both sides are doing this. The details are different, but both sides are being evil here.
Hamas did some war crimes by taking civilians as hostages, which is bad, and I condemn them. But they aren't perpetrating a genocide like Israel is. It's two very different scales of evil here, and it's important to point that out.
Since it's inception, putting a genocide on the jews has been a stated goal of Hamas. They glorified those that put this into practice. The only reason they haven't been as effective as the zionists is their lack of respective capability. But don't ever doubt they are evil
Not for lack of trying, which you people intentionally ignore to suit your own narrative.
What the OP did was try to justify an ongoing genocide by calling the other side terrorists.
I don't believe that is what their comment was implying at all. Again, both things can be true. Hamas can be terrorists and Israel can be guilty of exceptionally disproportionate violence fueling an agenda of unforgivable genocide.
Reality doesn't exist in black and white.
What's the difference between terrorists and the resistance to an occupation?
I suspect you are not asking in good faith, but I'm answering anyway: Methods and goals. Hamas methods are clear: Legitimate resistance doesn't deliberately and as a core policy murder, abduct and rape civilians. Hamas are no different from IS in this regard, which nobody calls resistance or freedom fighters.
Goals: Hamas actual and openly stated goal is the creation of a global Islamic caliphate and the murder and/or enslavement of all "nonbelievers", not the liberation of the Palestinian people.
How many Palestinian prisoners do the IDF hold from the west bank?
How are they taken?
What level of evidence is required for them to be 'arrested'?
Do they face the same legal processes as the Israeli 'settlers' when arrested?
What is the difference between the words 'hostage' and 'prisoner' to you?
How many Palestinian prisoners, including children, are reported raped each year in prison?
I'm all for the establishment of a free Palestinian state, but Hamas has to go.
Preferably through police action rather than the genocide that is a military intervention by Israel.
Anyway, the Israeli government is in the wrong on all the counts you raised, but Hamas still needs to go. They've been fully co-opted by all sorts of outside groups, and their rule in Gaza before October 7th was one of fear and oppression. They are no one's saviors, they're just the meanest bastards in the prison, lashing out at the guards while abusing the other prisoners.
The actual path to peace is a multinational police and peacekeeping force to come in and take over from the IDF, keeping the IDF out of it completely, and then opening up Gaza and the West Bank to the rest of the world. Possibly even ejecting the settlers from the West Bank and giving the land back.
But a large part of this would be arresting Hamas leadership.
And don't think I'd let the IDF and Israeli government off scot-free for their part in all this. I'm sure there's plenty of room in the local prisons for all the bastards in this mess.
The end goal might be a single, secular state, where all people are guaranteed full rights and protections by the government.
There is no opening Gaza or The West Bank to the rest of the world though, every nation bordering either one has built walls, minefields, and razorwire barriers to prevent any movement into or out of those areas, and there are no air or seaports.
There is no opening Gaza or The West Bank to the rest of the world though, every nation bordering either one has built walls, minefields, and razorwire barriers to prevent any movement into or out of those areas, and there are no air or seaports.
There is no opening Gaza or The West Bank to the rest of the world though, every nation bordering either one has built walls, minefields, and razorwire barriers to prevent any movement into or out of those areas, and there are no air or seaports.
Well that's a lie.
This seems to directly contradict the claims of the actual Hamas statements we are looking at right now.
Interesting that you can pick and choose which Hamas leader statements to believe in forming this narrative. Also, it is a little ironic that you claim others are engaging in bad faith while you manipulate which statements are valid from the same source.
Certainly not the views of some western kid who only cares after 7 decades because the internet told him to be outraged
Here's a fun game: Ask people who shout "From the river to the sea" which river and which see are meant and what this statement implies. The results are unsurprising.
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he's not Palestinian.
I married a Jewish woman who told me she doesn't know what that means. Cause she's Canadian and has no interest in the politics of a country across the planet. So why people like you take it out on her, simply because of her heritage, I have no idea... Oh no wait I do, as a native I am well aware of your tactics.
That quote reminds me of another one I heard "from sea to shining sea" where you guys colonized, raped and killed us and took all our land from sea to shining sea
I'm not American. You criticized me for making an assumption about people by making an assumption about me.
Also, is it really that unreasonable to ask of people to look up what they are shouting? To have even a passing knowledge of what they decided to protest for or against?
The distinction comes from the ends they seek and the means they go about achieving those ends.
Oh Allah, destroy the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, destroy the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count them one by one, and kill them all, without leaving a single one.”
-prayer of Sheik Ahmad Bahr
I could easily get behind a platform that acknowledges that 7 million Jews now live in Israel and forcing them out (or even worse, killing them) would be a humanitarian catastrophe, but instead Hamas’ position is just as unyielding and genocidal as what Bibi’s admin has been waging upon the people of Gaza and the West Bank. They’re only now talking about laying down their arms because it benefits their attempts to paint themselves as the reasonable party in this conflict which I find to be a farce. More conflict and death benefits both Likud and Hamas.
Are you going to spam the same quote from some dude that's already dead all over the thread? The fact you can't find anything more recent than is astounding. Let's do it the other way around:
I posted it twice, somehow that qualifies as spam, fucking lol. Fuck that lady and the other genocidal maniacs at the wheel in Israel.
”The cleansing of Palestine of the filth of the Jews, and their uprooting from it, Allah willing”
“the establishment of the Caliphate, after the nation has been healed of its cancer – the Jews – Allah willing.”
-Fathi Hamad, 2018
That recent enough for you? Fathi is still kicking as well. It’s quite easy to find more.
Yeah thats indeed a bad statement. Looks like Hamas made him walk it back and he apologized.
Hamas official walks back call to Palestinian Diaspora to kill ‘Jews everywhere’
A senior Hamas official on Monday attempted to walk back his call for members of the Palestinian diaspora to kill Jews around the world, as the terrorist group distanced itself from his remarks.
He added: “Our resistance to this usurping entity will continue in all of its forms whether that is armed or popular peaceful struggle.”
It is a pretty pathetic indictment of Israeli leadership when Hamas has the more responsible rhetoric. I hope it’s not just them yelling at him for saying the quiet part out loud. My hope is Hamas can follow a similar trajectory as the IRA/Sinn Fein did in Northern Ireland, but I unfortunately don’t see that happening with Likud on the other side of negotiations
"Whoopsie! So sorry I called for a global genocide there. Never meant a word of it"
Oppressed people tend to conflate the attributes of their oppressors and generalize everyone with those attributes.
Slaves often started to hate every white person instead of just slave owners.
As israel constantly screams they represent all Jews, and commit all their crimes in the name of Judaism, some Palestinians (mistakenly) conflate the two.
Luckily Hamas as an organization does not and clearly separates the two. Hamas has also never murdered a Jew outside of israel. Because they do not target Jews. They target the people that colonize their land.
Unlike israel where half the cabinet screams they want to murder every Arab and Ethnically Cleanse their land.
A political organisation can have an armed wing but whatever.
Israel is a terrorist state
It's not much of a dunk. If Palestine were a state capable of having a legitimate independent government there would be little conflict. The state is dysfunctional at the pleasure and design of their occupiers.
Palestine probably could have been a peaceful place where it's citizens could thrive relatively free of violence by now - but it would have required Israel honor their treaties and provide economic aid and reparations for damage that has been done to get it there. It would definitely have required Israel entirely cease settlement operations. There was a lot of appetite for it I feel back in the Arafat days. But ultimately Israeli politics instead tightened their chokehold and pretended they were confused when met with struggle and resistance. Ultimately Israel continued to ensure that there could be no functional economy in the territory they wanted for themselves.
This is a major change in rhetoric from Hamas, who previously stuck to wanting Israel wiped out. It's a sign that their capacity to resist has indeed been diminished severely. They definitely aren't a major power in the region at this point. It's only a matter of time till someone else steps up and reforms the organization or starts their own though. If Israel wants to be free from the threat of violence they need to be a damn good neighbor, but instead they continue to send bombs.
