Update from Lemmy after the Reddit blackout (From the Lemmy Developer)
Good read, gives me a lot of hope for this project.
I look forward to an exciting future with all of you.
(Also- hopefully this wasn't posted already)
https://join-lemmy.org/news/2023-06-17_-_Update_from_Lemmy_after_the_Reddit_blackout
This was written by the Lemmy devs.
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It seems to have become a habit that most good things about the internet is linked to the EU. I'm really grateful. That being said, I hope that Lemmy can become a collaborative project uniting a lot of devs rather than rely on two people.
About the scandal; as long as their opinions do not influence the platform I don't see them as relevant to Lemmy. If they are illegal, let justice do its work.
I'm hoping that I need to worry about the morals of my admin more than the morals of the developers.
That said, I would expect the Lemmy project is going to need to scale based on the increase in users. Two developers isn't going to cut it.
...what scandal?
It appears that they support the CCP and deny the Uyghur genocide.
They specifically address this in the article and say it isn't true.
On another topic, there are rumors circulating that we are fascists or supported genocide. These claims are completely false, and like most viral twitter threads, are coming from a single Mastodon user on a personal vendetta who didn’t provide any sources. Such slander doesn’t deserve any response and is best left ignored.
Here is Dessalines denying that any genocide is taking place: https://lemmy.ml/comment/471382
They can say "we don't support genocide" all day long, but denying that any genocide is taking place and actively trying to persuade others that no genocide is happening isn't any better.
I argue that it unintentionally supports a genocide since they're using a platform to (inadvertently) hide the genocide from the public by convincing others that nothing of the sort is happening.
I for one do definitely believe that there is a genocide happening and I'm appalled that we can't do more about it. But people trust in different sources of information. Not believing that a genocide is happening is not the same as actually endorsing genocide.
Refutation of a baseless claim from a geopolitical rival, is not the same as denial.
True. But Dessalines literally says that he agrees with people who disagree that a genocide is taking place. That is a denial. We can shuffle syntax around all day long.
Link is down
Weird, I just went to it and it seems to work. I'll SS it and post it in my comment for ease.
The other user did not appear to come back with a screenshot so I took one.
It's basically bog standard tankie perspective. Condemn wrongdoing while denying that wrongdoing is taking place, then flip the script with a whataboutism.
this may appear to you as an irrelevant detail, but... they who?
Sorry about the ambiguity. At least one of the main devs of Lemmy.
I saw someone else did a bit of research deeper down in the thread. It seems it's questionable but they at least "only" control like two federated instances, lemmy.world not being one of them. Of course, still not good to have someone like that in the dev team :/
i mean, there's only two people. they ARE the dev team for now.
yeah. not good at all, I'm not comfortable with it. I don't understand people who have access to information on the internet and deny anything obvious, no matter whether it's flat earthers, genocide deniers or ufo believers. how can a brain be this disfunctional?
Any specific link to that?
Update 3: @dessalines@lemmy.ml did state that they (singular) disagree that a genocide is taking place.
Update 2: My conclusion
Update: So I dug around a little deeper, and found that
On another topic, there are rumors circulating that we are fascists or supported genocide. These claims are completely false, and like most viral twitter threads, are coming from a single Mastodon user on a personal vendetta who didn’t provide any sources. Such slander doesn’t deserve any response and is best left ignored.
Update: More info about @dessalines@lemmy.ml
It's definitely good to have people like you investigating the backgrounds of key developers, as there might be ulterior motives behind them developing open platforms that compete with established Western companies outside of loving the free web and open source. Thank you!
However, I wonder how many opinions we disagree with would be unearthed by doing this kind of research on every core developer of Chrome, Windows, MacOS, Google or whatever. I think you would find a lot if you get people to air their honest opinions. In today's climate, if these people were open about certain opinions they might hold (not saying they do, but statistically it's likely some do) they would just be fired, so it's easy for large corporations to shake damage to their reputation from having certain staff members. For OSS it is a bit harder, since although developers can be pushed out, and software can be forked, it's all open and it's harder to understate the contribution to the source code etc. that such a person could have contributed.
It does kind of suck when you hear that developers working on software you like have wildly different worldviews to your own, but sometimes you have to put things in perspective. Having said that, if this guy is the only developer I might feel less than happy about using Lemmy instead of Reddit.
Personally, I'd rather my open source, decentralized software be developed by a nearly fanatical communist than a slimy entrepreneur/capitalist. Either could try to pull the rug out from under you, but at least one is internally consistent until then...
I’d rather have open source, decentralized software be developed by none of those groups/slimy individual. Doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
I mean you're more than free to start contributing to Lemmy and / or offer to be on the core team. You can fork it and start your own version of it not owned by them. The nice thing about having a communist (or at least an anticapitalist) developing it instead of a capitalist is that you have the freedom to do that. You cannot do that with Twitter, or with Reddit, or with Facebook, or with Instagram.
Capitalists will not voluntarily do that because it is unprofitable to them. Companies that do end up floundering or dead.
Idk to me there's a very real difference between the two and I'd rather have a tankie developing a platform than someone like Elon Musk making it go to shit.
but at least one is internally consistent until then…
Having to do the mental gymnastics required to make China not commit genocide does not suggest internal consistency...
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
This is so weird to me lol, maybe I'm just odd but it's so weird seeing McCarthyism still rearing it's ugly head after what... 5 decades? I am by no means an ML (can't stand them as an anarchist) but this is wildly blowing out of proportion what @dessalines@lemmy.ml has said and done.
I mean like why link a 'Socialist FAQ' that's literally just a ton of links to education on socialism and the different schools of thought it has? Not all communists are tankies (not even most) lol. Just generally shows a lack of familiarity with actual leftists / anticapitalists.
I think it's more like 7 decades and I thought the same. Reds-under-the-bed is still a thing!
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
Please stop spamming this in the thread, it's annoying af.
Sometimes people just like spreading drama. Other times they just have weird or different beliefs. Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn't useful or helpful unless you can demonstrate that this person isn't just having an internet debate that they feel strongly about.
Accusing someone of having ulterior motives isn’t useful
@spirit is making claims out of his ass though and taking lots of upvotes. I don't agree with spamming but there is no proof the reddit user is Dessalines.
Okay, what I'm saying is a vast majority of the time people just say stupid shit online. And that's it. This is a good way to say it, not 'what does this person have to gain by doing the thing that internet users have done for forever to earn imaginary internet points? Are they trying to destroy Lemmy?'
Wow...thanks. I had no idea this was ongoing. As someone living in Asia and seeing these issues from up close, these ring close to home. I'll be paying attention for any of these...moderations.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
Since you didn't notice that in that post /u/parentisshotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you're not very observant so I'll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.
Step 1) Visit /u/parentisshotgun's profile
Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but "Yes" on it. This post specifically.
Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering
Step 4) Read the question: "Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?"
Step 5) See /u/parentisshotgun's response: "Yes."
"Misinformation".
What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?
E:
Alternative route #1: Find parentisshotgun's post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.
Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their "communist 101s" on dessalines.github.io/essays/
Nadya you are really persistent :) kudos to you
You even get a second reply. Because....
Even if there wasn't enough evidence that dessalines is parentisshotgun - it doesn't matter! dessalines does not deny being a Tankie and makes no efforts to hide their political thoughts. You can go to lemmy.ml and read through dessalines posts. Find the one where they say "I'm not exactly hiding my politics" and link to their essays on Github. Or you can just go to the essays from their Github profile after confirming that the dessalines that is a Lemmy dev is the same dessalines that is admin on Lemmy.ml and find the link to their essays that way.
There you can see they attempt to answer many questions. Some generic to Communism - but many more defending Tankie talking points such as:
Did the Soviet Union manufacture a famine in Ukraine? What about the Holodomor?
Where they link to articles that deny the genocide.
And also defend Stalin by linking to revisionist propaganda:
What about Stalin? Didn't he kill millions?
And deny that the Cheka secret police murdered millions of people as ordered by The State:
Did the Soviet Union repress and kill millions of people?
They deny the Tiananmen Square massacre - calling it a propaganda hoax:
What about the Tiananmen square massacre?
Their defense of China's 1-child policy? "60,000,000 girls weren't killed from infanticide. Only 35,000,000 were." and they provide no other explanation for the severe gender imbalance that China has:
Did China really kill / commit infanticide on millions of girls during the 1-child policy?
There isn't any need to prove that dessalines is parentisshotgun in order to claim that dessalines is a Tankie. dessalines is very openly a Tankie. One only needs to read the political thoughts that they openly share.
thank you for the research & informing us
Happy to help. :)
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
Since you didn't notice that in that post /u/parentisshotgun claims to have made Jerboa and links to it - which links to github.com/dessalines/jerboa - you're not very observant so I'll provide you with some alternative posts as evidence.
Step 1) Visit /u/parentisshotgun's profile
Step 2) Old PgDn to load some posts. Find the one that says nothing but "Yes" on it. This post specifically.
Step 3) Click Context to see which question it is answering
Step 4) Read the question: "Wait a second, are you the same dessalines that narrated my The State and Revolution by Lenin and Fascism: What it is and how to fight it by Trotsky?"
Step 5) See /u/parentisshotgun's response: "Yes."
"Misinformation".
Ask yourself: What exactly do you get out of defending Tankies?
Alternative route #1: Find parentisshotgun's post about creating thumb-key - a privacy-conscious Android keyboard made for your thumbs. Notice it links to a Github profile for dessalines.
Alternative route #2: Find this post where they keep their "communist 101s" on dessalines.github.io/essays/
Why are you taking a personal vendetta against the devs? LOL
I dislike genocide apologists about as much as I dislike liars and people who spread misinformation. It's trivially easy to confirm who /u/parentisshotgun is - so calling it misinformation is blatantly lying especially when their first point is blatantly wrong.
People can be OK with the dev being a Tankie ("separate the art from the artist" which is a terrible philosophy in its own right but people are welcome to believe in it this more of a philosophical difference) but denying that the dev is a Tankie is where I cross the line. The dev is a Tankie. Do with that information what you will but there is no denying it.
This is some really McCarthyism here.
Stop being lame, my dude.
(lemmygrad.ml) "funded by the NED"
Must have been stated as sarcasm if Ned is : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy
since they are fighting specifically against this kind of United States's actions.
I mean regardless of the devs' opinions they are forwarding the democratization of information by working on this project
I agree with you yet I was not completely clear : I meant to say that lemmygrad.ml are fighting USA's stance
Ah I see
Yeah, honestly, these NED guys seem really cool based on the wikipedia article. It's nice to find out my tax dollars are actually supporting something positive every now and again :)
another mod said that @muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml is funded by the NED. Source: https://archive.is/G5Dh7
lmao you actually believe that us joking around that we're being funded by the NED is evidence that muad'dibber is funded by them?
For your information the NED is a CIA front created by an Act of Congress, it's a tool of regime change established after the CIA lost their capabilities to simply go change presidents in other countries in the 60s-70s.
The running joke on Lemmygrad is that we're all feds. You're wayyy out of your depth lol
Wow, this is a lot to digest. Thank you for putting this all together.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
You are amazing! Thanks for the time spent on OSINT
If this is OSINT call me the CIA (slight /s)
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
I believe those people saying lemmy is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy were being sarcastic. Thanks for rounding this up though, I appreciate people who do the due diligence.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
What happened in this thread lol, complete change in retoric and basically only posted about programming afterwards https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/y2rzhg/interview_with_anarchocommunist_combat/is5kna7/
This is ridiculous. If you ant helping get the hell out!
Jesus christ, what a dumpster fire that comments section was.
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
I never said anything about that person, your copy/paste comment is not relevant to what I said. I don't hate the devs, I said the comments section of the post that was linked to is a dumpster fire of tankies and genocide apologists.
I am talking about @spirit not you.
Then why are you replying to me...?
to inform you.
You mean to say : except for that excellent comment you replied to ?
I'm referring to the comments section on the post he linked to, where half the comments are tankies trying to defend the actions of the admins who were banning users and calling them racist for criticizing the CCP/Kremlin.
okay now I get it 👍
Apologies for not being clearer!
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
Sure, but as I said, I don't see any of this as relevant as long as it doesn't affect the platform.
You leave reddit because the ceo introduces shitty pricing but you don't mind the main devs being literal fascists?
The project is open source and anyone can create instances, that's why its irrelevant.
The way it works in practice is that the largest instances are where most people go. What is stopping those devs from imposing their views on the community, e.g. by censoring?
Nice thing is, the devs have no power about instances they don't run.
They just write the code for them, and since it's open source, we could see any sketchy code and just fork it away
If that happens word gets out and people switch and currently the instances ran by the OG tankies are actively trying to dissuade people from joining.
Hahahaha fuck. I love it when tankies are a self-solving problem.
Reddit is in hot water because of its actions as they affect various user groups, not because the CEO has a political view that's undesirable.
Of course political protests could be done, but that's not what happened here, and you know this.
Reddit's admins are taking decisions based on their worldviews and objectives that affect the content of Reddit, i.e. what we can talk about, what we can do, what tools we can use, what information we can access...
As of my current knowledge, the worldviews of Lemmy's devs (that I certainly don't share) don't affect content on instances that they do not administrate or moderate. Even if they were building and shaping instances around hatespeech (which I don't know they do), I'd simply block them and let the police and justice act on the potential crimes or offence they may do.
The beauty of federated networks is you can avoid the platforms with these kinds of people altogether. I typically avoid lemmy.ml altogether unless I don't have a choice and even then it's pretty easily to find alternatives.
Girl calm down, please just take a step back. Maybe read up on communism or communists / the far left before blaring off takes like this. I'm not an ML and not a fan of them as an anarchist, but this is suchhhhh an overreaction to what they actually said.
Additionally if you don't like the dev team, then fork it. Or volunteer to be on the core team. Submit some PRs. Start your own alternative. One of the cool things about having anticapitalists develop software is that it is open and you can do that. It actively does the opposite of what capitalism wants us to do. I think just that fact alone should make you pause and maybe reassess the language you're using (Hitler and other fascists rose to power actively aided and funded by capitalists because it helped retain their power).
@dessalines@lemmy.ml is /u/parentis_shotgun on Reddit. Source: https://archive.is/Ky9vd
