lemmy.blahaj.zone admins sitebanning users for stating a fictional animal is fictional in order to accommodate for a troll account
Edit: I also just got banned for apparently being a troll. Me. Not the person they believe to be a dragon though.
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I'm gonna be honest, y'all kinda fucking dumb lmao.
Let's say drag is a troll. If so, then drag's wanting you to do exactly what you're doing now. You have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker. Congrats! You're helping drag cause problems! To avoid taking the bait, you gotta use drag's pronouns. Do that, and there'll be no drama for drag to stir up.
If drag isn't a troll, then you're just being a dick and intentionally causing drama when you could just use drag's pronouns. By doing so, you'd make drag feel happy and accepted; which would be very progressive of you.
Soooooo..... By posting this, at best you're just feeding a troll and making other trans people question whether or not their pronouns will be respected (no, really, when cis people start drawing lines for trans people, I get extremely uncomfortable; it's not your place to do so, fuck right off), at worst you're being a piece of shit.
Edit: the fucking entitlement of cis people telling trans people how to run their spaces is sickening. I thought Lemmy was supposed to be fairly progressive, yet once again I'm being shown that cis people believe they deserve a voice in something that has nothing to do with them. You don't get to call yourself an ally when you question someone's validity.
You disgust me.
To avoid taking the bait, you gotta use drag's pronouns
Whatever happened to good ol block button?
That works too.
"The only way to beat trolls is to comply with their every demand and especially stay silent when they get the administrators to enforce their trolling" is an interesting take, and one about as useful to a community as "Just ignore the bullies and they'll go away" is to a child.
you can also just block people you assume are trolls
That becomes problematic, though, when the admins back the trolls' schtick even in discussions where the trolls in question are not involved.
A) the trolling part is getting people like you to lose their shit and question a person's "transness".
B) who died and made you the eternal arbiter of validity? Fuck off. I've had enough cis people question me and others; and now you want to tell us how to run our own spaces? Go fuck yourself.
You can run your space how you want. People complaining about the absurdity of how you do it doesn't change that.
The discussion is about people being banned from blahaj, not about whether we want to use these particular pronouns.
I’m sure the dragon user is tickled pink about all the drama, yes, but talking about policy when people are getting banned seems like a good thing to do even that notwithstanding.
Except the discussion hinges around people trying to claim that drag's pronouns aren't valid. That isn't their place to decide. That is why they got banned.
No, the discussion doesn’t. You, the admin, and several others have misinterpreted the argument. The user has been banned across communities for trolling, misgendering, encouraging suicide, bad faith accusations, moderator harassment, and advocating violence. The user has posted comments that are racist and advocating for bestiality. The user has cyberstalked and harassed a Lemmy.world mod to misgender the mod’s daughter.
The user has declared themself to not be a human. You know that to be impossible.
This isn’t about the pronouns. We are on your side. The troll is attempting to discredit you and your communities.
I want to make this clear too: I have trans people in my life. I would never interrogate them on gender or sexuality and judge whether it was “valid” in this way. I do get why the whole concept or anything adjacent to it could make people lose their shit.
That’s not what’s going on here, with this user. The way you said it is a good way. They’re not even claiming to be transgender, that I know of, and the only conceptual overlap is that of pronouns, but somehow that is enough to trigger this thing that I think is protecting them and putting them in the “ally” category.
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You’re smarter than this.
Edit: actually maybe you aren’t.
We only insist on using the correct pronouns. What's the purpose of arguing the validity of a supposed troll's identity when there's plenty of actions to criticize? How often do we need to tell you that the correct response to a trolls is NOT to start misgendering them or similar, before you get it?
We only insist on using the correct pronouns.
And the idea of 'dragonfucker' as a gender identity, don't forget, which is what most of the people removed were removed for.
People got banned for responding to a post by the admin herself titled "Neopronouns are not trolling". They literally started arguing with an admin right then and there about whether some user's identity / pronouns are valid. I don't know what other outcome you expect.
I think the LGBT+ movement needs a reality check if they want to cut the rest of society out of that discussion.
Why would “the rest of society” need to be on a lemmy instance dedicated to being a safe space for trans people?
We don't need to be. And as those of us in the reality-based community are apparently not welcome, many of us will be leaving.
👍
It is not the pronouns it's the insistent and illogical way they are used outside of pronouns
YUP. no notes. i see no shortage of “i’m blocking you now” in comment replies to other people. it’s two easy clicks to block a single divisive user. why not drag?
because you all clearly enjoy the drama. you wanted to flex your rejection muscles in the face of clearly stated rules in a community space that was not designed for you. enjoy! yall brought this on yourselves.
You're acting like this is a bunch of posters getting together to dogpile on poor drag instead of a bunch of posters being upset at the actions and statements of the admin.
i’m referring to the drama preceding this, as was the person i was responding to.
i personally also have qualms with the actions of the mods, but i still find it to be hella cringe how so many people saw fit to just feed the situation more and more instead of just leaving it the fuck alone as you and i have.
Ah. No comment on that. Like I said, I've barely even seen drag around lately, much less interacted with them.
thank you for understanding
We're not upset at the mods. We're upset at you.
We’re not upset at the mods. We’re upset at you.
I know reading comprehension isn't your strong point, but the "bunch of posters" mentioned is quite clearly in the context of those objecting to the admins backing dragonfucking as an identity.
That's heavily ironic. Considering drag has actual comments about this,
Dragon Rider, actually, not dragonfucker. And drag isn't mad that you misremembered.
If you're going to claim someone has bad reading comprehension maybe don't fuck up your own first? And that's not drag's pronouns, that's drag's name. Maybe you can guess drag's pronouns from this post? (Hint Dragon Rider has it in parenthesis next to their name)
That’s heavily ironic. Considering drag has actual comments about this,
Because drag uses first person neopronouns. Drag’s drag/dragself pronouns are person independent. They’re inflected and conjugated the same way in all grammatical persons. They represent drag’s identity as a dragon rider.
Drag rides dragons and also “rides” dragons
Drag has made REPEATED comments that 'rider' is to be interpreted in both senses.
Dragonfucker is also the literal fucking handle, genius. Jesus H. Christ.
And that’s not drag’s pronouns,
I'm not talking about their pronouns, though I guess that's a distinction that requires a level of literacy several grades higher than you're operating at; I've explicitly stated this multiple times in this thread.
Why. Do you. Caaaaaare?
You don't seem to get it. You don't question someone's identity. Period. No ands, ifs or buts. You do not get to decide if someone's identify is valid. You are an asshole and you are not an ally for doing it.
This is why trans people (at least the ones I know) unironically tend to avoid hanging out with cis people. Cis people think they're entitled to telling other people how they can identify.
This is why trans people (at least the ones I know) unironically tend to avoid hanging out with cis people. Cis people think they’re entitled to telling other people how they can identify.
I'm sorry for thinking dragons don't exist. I'll go for a struggle session at the first opportunity to repent of my sins.
Literally like talking to children. Throwing a fit over not being called a dragon. Insane.
Christ, you'd lose your mind if you ever stepped into the furry community. The therians would give you an aneurysm.
Once again, you do not get to say whether or not someone's identity is valid. It doesn't matter how "real" you perceive their identity to be. You are a bigot for doing so.
Also, you can literally just block drag and pretend drag doesn't exist. Just don't respond to drag. Don't talk to drag. Don't refer to drag. You could just do that, but instead you've decided to be a bigot.
Once again, you do not get to say whether or not someone’s identity is valid. It doesn’t matter how “real” you perceive their identity to be. You are a bigot for doing so.
Also, you can literally just block drag and pretend drag doesn’t exist. Just don’t respond to drag. Don’t talk to drag. Don’t refer to drag. You could just do that, but instead you’ve decided to be a bigot.
Could have pretended that people who say "Dragons aren't real" don't exist, but the admin response was instead to ban folk for it. Could've done that, but instead, you've decided to approve of acting like literal children.
So my drunk Republican uncle is actually an attack helicopter? I thought that was just political rhetoric and poor taste hyperbole, but I suppose I should respect his identity and also try to limit my thermal signature and seek heavy cover from above.
If he really and truly does, then yes, especially when he's posting on blahaj.
clearly in the context of those objecting to the admins backing dragonfucking as an identity.
Someone can call themselves the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. That doesn't make them a democracy. And drag literally told you what to call them. Stop grasping at new ways to be wrong. It's getting ridiculous.
Someone can call themselves the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea. That doesn’t make them a democracy.
So drag isn't a dragon rider, is what you're saying?
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what
I don't give a fuck about drag really. What drag does and says is up to drag. Drag has a different and challenging identity. The instance mod was applying the rules around identity here, and it seems cis people in here are pissed because they don't think drag's identity is valid.
and it seems cis people in here are pissed because they don’t think drag’s identity is valid.
... yes. Being a dragon is not something you can be. Dragons do not exist, much less is there the capacity for a human being to be one.
I can't believe that this is really a point of contention.
You do understand that pronoun use and (gender) identity aren't necessarily linked, right?
The existence of dragons has no weight on the validity of drag's pronouns.
You do understand that pronoun use and (gender) identity aren’t necessarily linked, right?
Drag has explicitly stated their gender identity, numerous times before. Like I said, this isn't about 'drag' as a cutesy 'xe/xim' equivalent.
Being a dragon is not something you can be. Dragons do not exist, much less is there the capacity for a human being to be one.
Having different chromosomes is also not something you can do.
You might argue, that people with chromosomes different from yours exist. This is irrelevant tho, because neither can you change your chromosomes nor can you rule out someone genetically engineers a fantasy style dragon one day.
Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon
(PS: I should maybe note that I have the dragon person blocked for different reasons tho)
Yeah, they don't block drag because drag is their golden ticket to express their transphobic views while pretending it's just about drag. Their real reaction to drag is:
... transphobia is when you don't believe in dragons?
How curious.
i wish that edit was a pinned post in a lot of communities.
THIS JUST IN: cis, agender people disgust MossyFeathers, and they are so valid in feeling this way! They need an award for not feeding a troll, because addressing the mythical-reptile-sona troll in question at all is definitely not a loosing battle.
Anyways, neopronouns are fine or whatever, and can help people. Trolling in third-person to make a mockery of the concept of neopronouns seems counter-intuitive though, unless making people who use them feel bad is the point. Ah well, I guess agender people don't exist, and cis bad. 😑
I came to post exactly what you said then duck out, so I'll just add that Lemmy as a whole is fairly progressive but .world is largely centrist Americans, has multiple notable shit stirrers, and a few of them and their alts are already here agreeing with themselves.
So yeah, I'm not surprised this turned into a dumpster fire of " 'brave' cishets pontificating on their standards of pronoun etiquette in trans spaces".
I'm just gonna chime in with...
I don't care for drag's pronouns and neopronouns in general, but that doesn't matter. You know what I haven't seen on blahaj in my time there? Drag being nasty and trollish to anyone not using them. In the cases I've seen, drag handles it pretty maturely. Troll or not, people are getting upset about their idea of drag, not drag and drags behavior.
Drag is literally trolling blahaj.zone in the thread in question.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173/12155139
That post contains this image, which is drag saying people should take the attack helicopter meme serously:
Please read Ada's comments in the thread regarding the "attack helicopter identity meme".
I did read Ada's comment and think Ada is a fool for encouraging the troll that goes by drag.
So you replied just to confirm that you didn't read the story of Isabel Fall.
I understand that Isabell Fall took an internet meme and made an artistic statement uaing a fictional story which does not actually involve a real person identifying as an attack helicopter. That doesn't make the meme itself less transphobic.
Isabel Fall is/was a trans woman who wrote a story invoking the "I sexually identify as an attack helicopter" meme / dog whistle and got attacked for it to the point of suicidal thoughts and her/them detransitioning even by her/their own peers. One of the lessons that some hope that could be learned from this is that, as Ada said it, "[it] isn’t always a troll, and how the community itself can become harmful to its own members when it turns on them".
Additionally, as Mossy Feathers in this thread points out: If it is a troll, you're just feeding it. If it isn't, you're an ass. Oh and you're an ass either way, because you – regardless of your infinite wisdom about what LGBTQ+ people want, how to protect them, or how to normalize our existence – have questioned someone's identity, which is not yours to decide, and that's against our instance's rules.
Do not interact, or block, and nobody will mind.
Heck, some folks witnessing this mess, including me at this point, are probably quite happy about drag's "trolling", as it seems to honeypot those unwilling to listen to us into showing their bigoted ways. As already said: Don't tell us how to run our communities, especially not after "one of you" just got kicked out for so blatantly breaking our rules in a post that's literally about asking people not to.
Good thing I'm not on that instance breaking that instance's rules by having the audacity to have an opinion on whether an obvious troll is a troll. I'm just over here making an observation on one specific troll and one admin who is falling for a troll.
It isn't always a troll, but sometimes it is.
So in your opinion, it was entirely okay to, on the post of an admin explicitly asking people to respect neopronouns, go "except for that dragon person, right?". If you want to have a talk and not get banned, see Squorlple's conversation with Ada in that thread.
How yould you react to someone saying their pronouns were nazi/nazi? I would think they were a troll for the same reasons I think drag/drag is trolling.
Wonder if Ada would accept someone pointing that out in their thread? I won't do that because pointing out how ridiculous a zero tolerance rule is doesn't go over well and it is their instance. But I do feel free to criticize that decision from over here.
It's kind of amusing watching them wave around a meme they clearly don't understand to others who also don't understand it so they can all feel justified in their shite behavior.
