Do You Understand How Dangerous This Moment Is — How Far We've Drifted?

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Do You Understand How Dangerous This Moment Is — How Far We've Drifted? | Common Dreams

Once the government claims the right to strip anyone of due process, rights cease to be rights and become privileges, granted or revoked at the whim of those in power. That is not a constitutional democracy. That is the scaffolding of fascism.

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Nope. Most people are still trying to pass the blame for it. That this isn't a failure of us as a general population. This is all somehow on the Democrats for not catering to them perfectly. Or coming out to hold their hand. That we have no Duty ourselves and no responsibility. That we as a population didn't let the national parties get to where they are through complacency. That this isn't still ongoing because of complacency
I literally had someone tell me last night that those of us solely focused on keeping a fascist out of office. Were only interested in a short-term future. Nothing long-term. Not actually fixing anything. Like in 4 years we're just all going to get a mulligan, and all the egregious shit that has happened and will happen in the next four years is just going to be magically unto itself. No fam, those rights whether or not we ever really had them are completely gone now.
A lot of immigrants and Muslims voted for Trump instead of Harris because of all the one-sided stink raised around Biden Harris. As if there was ever a more appropriate time to both sides of things. And all these people so fond of both sidesing things couldn't do it. Even more were demotivated not to vote. And even with all that the Democrats only lost by single digit percentage. But at least so many of these people have their ideological purity to comfort them. As families are torn apart, people killed kidnapped and tortured. Until they can acknowledge that they had a hand in this. We will just keep moving down this path slowly if we're lucky.
- My question for you is: Would fascism in 2029 have been better than fascism in 2025? Maybe fascism in 2033? I sincerely hope you don't think you were ever going to avoid fascism by voting Democrat.
  
  Fascism regardless of time frame is never better. Had we saved it off there's no reason we would have had it in 2028 either. The goal isn't just staving at all. But also bull working against it. It isn't just getting a democrat in the presidency and then sitting out for years hoping the fascists don't come back. The fascists have come back every four years for a hundred years
  
  Had we saved it off there's no reason we would have had it in 2028 either.
  You really can't think of a reason why four years of rightwing Joe Biden would've improved fascists' chances at winning the predidency in 2029?
  But also bull working against it.
  In what way? And what makes you think that "working against it" would've happened in 2025-2028 when it quite obviously didn't happen in 2021-2024?
- No, the Democrats are too blame. You can only run as "at least we're not fascists" for so long before you wear out the response. They didn't fight fascism, they didn't push for a better world, they tried to meet fascism halfway
  They didn't jail Trump for attempting an insurrection, they didn't fix voting, they didn't listen to the voters.
  They just keep insisting everything is ok. They actively adopt the language of maga. They refuse to use any power they do have - they just make slippery slope arguments and talk down to their constituents. Things are not ok, our lives are getting worse faster than they carefully tweak things to offer half measures
  This is not the voter's fault. The Democratic party gave America an ultimatum - "take what we give you or you get fascists". They did it three times. It barely worked once
  
  How is that not shared fault by your own definition? Like I get that democrats shit the bed due to greed and good old fashioned ineptitude but if the options are status quo or unbridled fascism I can't see how someone can choose fascism and expect to remain blameless.
  
  Because one of these actions was a deliberate course taken by a group, the other is the reaction of the population
  Someone has a gun to your head and tells you to march. Every time you slow or stumble they press the gun against your head and repeat the threat. How long do you march?
  It's been hours, and your body barely responds to you. The adrenaline has worn out, you fall again and they repeat the threat. Do you march yourself to death? Do you just refuse to stand? Do you dare them to shoot you?
  In none of these cases is it actually your fault. Maybe you could've survived the march. Maybe you were marching to your burial site. It doesn't matter, you weren't really given a choice
  In other words, it's victim blaming.
  
  Yeah, that would be a good argument if it wasn't a blatant case of emotional manipulation and a poor metaphor on top of that.
  Like it or not your life comes with responsibilities, one of those responsibilities are to those around you. Your gun to the head metaphor implies that you are the only part impacted by the consequences of your actions, but that's obviously not the case here. If you imagine 100 gunmen have guns to 100 people's heads and then tell on the them to start marching or else they all get shot, then it would at least be a little closer. I can understand and even sympathize with the unfortunate situation the marcher is put in but that doesn't mean he still won't receive some of the blame when he decides for the entire group that enough is enough and he'd rather just end the whole thing then and there.
  I think this is what the rest of us see as the core of the problem and what you all seem unwilling to see; refusing to vote for the lesser of two evils is inherently selfish, even if it is understandable.
  
  I agree, it's basically a team of gunmen forcing a crowd of prisoners. I didn't want to make the metaphor too complicated, but that's exactly what it is
  Voting for the lesser of two evils is obeying the gunmen. Meanwhile, others in the group have died of exhaustion, continuing to walk means more will drop
  The best thing to do is to all unite as one and take the guns... But you have to act as one. People will get shot, and it might all be for nothing if we don't commit
  What we have now is a tense standoff. Part of the group is negotiating with the gunmen to try to get them to shoot someone else, part of the group is making eye contact and getting into position, and the majority is just scared
  You can talk about responsibility to the group... I'd agree. But obeying the gunmen isn't the morally superior choice, it just kicks the problem down the road so we can do it again, when everyone is more exhausted and more people have dropped already
  
  Hey! I actually agree with everything you said so that's kind of fun for us! The big problem I see is that the people who decided to make a stand in the last election really had to plan to ensure group buy in so there was no real path to success, just moral high ground for those that refused to vote for more of the same.
  Assuming that it's not too late at this point we need real leaders with a real plan to get real people behind a movement for change. If the next four years end in a vote that ushers in change with first destabilizing the entire world then I'll happily admit I was wrong but my fear and the fear of most everyone else who voted for Harris despite it being more of the same is that we won't get a chance for real change without a full on coup now that Trump is in control again.
- You realize you’re passing the blame to voters who weren’t thrilled with democrats’ slogan “everything’s fine, what are you whining about?”
  
  100%. You realize things would be significantly better than they are had Democrats won right? I don't blame people for not being excited. But the only options were open fascism or democrats. I can 100% blame people for not being motivated enough to vote against open fascism. I can 100% blame people for working super hard to demotivate people from voting for Democrats in the presidential election. So much so that they actually convinced many people to vote against their interests, and vote for the fascist.
  Now instead of working to improve things from the imperfect situation we were in before. We've solidly lost several rights and are now in a much bigger hole than ever. All it would have taken is just a percentage or two more worth of votes. Instead we keep repeating 1980. Protest voting ourselves out of relevance because someone who doesn't pass our purity test or excite us enough.
  
  Maybe democrats should have used their past mandates to codify Roe or enact universal healthcare.
  We want progressives who will fight, not Vichy left Diet Republicans™️.
  
  They've never been handed a mandate. The fact that you think they have is part of the problem. A Mandate doesn't just mean getting a president in and a vanishingly thin majority. A mandate means the presidency and solidly controlling at least one other branch of government. Something that hasn't happened for Democrats in my lifetime now basically 50 years.
  I don't know how old you are or how far back your awareness extends. But the Supreme Court has been trending solidly fascist for 30 plus years. Even with solid victories like obama's. The Supreme Court was still fascistic, and they struggled to get enough votes to even pass something as lackluster and flawed as the ACA. Because there were not enough votes in the Congress. Not a mandate. A mandate is having the people in Congress to pass the laws and someone in the presidency to sign them. Anything less doesn't work.
  And Roe v Wade is not a Democratic failure it is a systemic failure. Remember it was the solidly Republican Supreme Court that decided Roe versus Wade in the 1970s. Yes it absolutely should have been codified into law and the constitution. But you know who didn't campaign against and overturn Roe versus Wade? Democrats.
  I'm glad people like yourself are angry. It's the correct response. It's healthy. What I don't like is that you keep aiming the gun at our Collective foot. Please stop shooting our foot.
  
  You're talking to people who want things exactly the way they want them, right now, or they're willing to burn it all down.
  And they did.
  
  Who’s shooting their own foot? Not me, I voted for Harris. Any other straw men you’d like to easily “defeat”?
  Democrats aren’t your friends. They take your vote and legislate against you. All those think pieces asking why republicans vote against their own interests? Look in the mirror, buddy.
  I’m sorry you had to find out this way.
  
  They take your vote and legislate against you.
  Democrats gave me affordable healthcare when I was young and couldn't afford it otherwise. My vote for them directly resulted in me getting affordable healthcare.
  If you've ever bothered to look up the Democrat party's voting history, which you clearly haven't, they regularly vote in favor of the middle/lower classes.
  
  NAFTA? Welfare “reform”? Biden’s crime bill? Repealing Glass-Steagle? Iraq invasion? Don’t Ask Don’t Tell? Killing single payer? On and on.
  I think you’re just trolling, or you’ve paid zero attention to how democrats actually vote.
  And Obamacare is literally a plan from the heritage institute. Yes, P2025 heritage institute.
  
  False equivalance; Everyone knows 99% of politicians on both sides don't really give a shit. When one side is literally fascism and the other believes in our Constitution and Democracy, there is no consideration. As an American, your vote in that situation should be automatic. Don't get me wrong, Democrats are often shitty, but the fact that so many voters ignored the issue of Trump's blatant disregard for the Constitution as some kind of distraction issue and not by far the most important one is mind boggling.
  
  Who’s shooting their own foot? Not me, I voted for Harris. Any other straw men you’d like to easily “defeat”?
  If that's the case, and you didn't take part in the one-sided orgy of sensationalized coverage. That actually convinced many vulnerable peoples to vote for the person that wanted to attack them. Then what are you arguing with me for. Don't blame others being confused by your baffling Behavior.
  Democrats aren’t your friends
  Where did anyone imply they were? Now look who's making straw men. I know I've posted the same phrase multiple times today and I'm pretty sure to this reply thread even. I think it may have been the very first post to this replying thread that I am not a Democrat or a republican. I am an anarchist and I want all those parties dissolved eventually. What part of that implies friendly.
  All those think pieces asking why republicans vote against their own interests? Look in the mirror, buddy.
  Do explain. This seems especially detached from reality and I'm interested where this is going. Republicans generally like my message. The problem is I just don't offer them the fear that motivates them. Democrats generally like my message too. I simply don't offer the hordes of cash that get the attention of leadership.
  
  And instead you got a felon rapist traitor who is creating a fascist regime. We're losing rights. Regulations are being rolled back. The economy is crashing. Life is more expensive.
  Because you wanted everything exactly the way you wanted it right now or fuck it all.
  Real smart.
  
  I voted for Harris.
  See what good it did to vote blue no matter who?
  Keep knocking down those strawmen while the country slides into fascism.
  I wish democrats fought Republicans with one-tenth the energy they fight progressives with.
  
  Yes.
  Because they allowed a felon rapist traitor to become our leader, and that scum is now crashing our economy and creating a fascist regime. Which is exactly what we said would happen if they didn't vote or voted 3rd party.
  Do you think I was THRILLED with Democrats this time around?
  No.
  But I'm not stupid enough to let that get in the way of trying to prevent what's happening now.
  These people need to grow the fuck up and make the BEST decision in the reality they live in. They didn't. And now we're suffering the consequences. And it's just the beginning.
- You're getting downvoted but you're right.
  The two parties have WILDLY different standards. Democrats have to be flawless while Republicans get to be lawless.
  People would much rather blame Democrats than accept that the American electorate is at fault for failing an open book test. Sure, political parties have to work to prove their worth (well, some of them), but American voters also need to be responsible and inform themselves.
  "They didn't earn my vote."
  Did the felon rapist earn your vote? Did the Democrats not earn your vote by having a voting history proving they regularly vote in favor of the middle/lower classes? Do they need to get on their knees and suck your dick to earn your vote? Is impending fascism not enough to move the needle for you?
  Our political parties may be trash, but so is our electorate. Our political parties are literally a reflection of our electorate.
  
  Yes people would do well to understand that we have the representatives we deserve. Not the ones we want. And there's a reason for that.
  I keep seeing all this unearned bravado and confidence. People shouting how if Democrats want to stop losing they need to start supporting them. And I'm like oh what office did you win?
- Completely agree. There are plenty of points where you can effect change but when that final election comes you vote for the better option for that race. And if you did not do that, yeah Im pissed at you but the important thing is you learn your lesson and do the sensible thing in the future.
  
  Yes unfortunately you can see all the ones desperately down voting. Trying to deny it. Even though their ideological purity won't feed The Starving Children in gaza. Won't reunite all the destroyed families. Won't bring back all the innocent young men not sold into slavery. But that we are now through our government paying to be held as slaves to someone else. Honestly I think a lot of them meant well. We all do. But we all make mistakes as well. However not all of us can acknowledge that.
  
  Lemmy is full of fools who voted 3rd party or didn't vote and are very, very upset when you point out how foolish they were.
  They'll make the same mistake next time around. There's no learning involved for them.
  
  And the thing really is we don't care that they made a mistake. We all make mistakes. All any of us is asking for is just for them to say well we done f***** up let's not do that again in the future.
  I've watched this repeat for 50 years straight. Over 30 years as a voter. One step forward two steps back. But I suspect that describes the last hundred years at least

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