Arguments after dinner
Arguments after dinner
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/23601023
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46 comments
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I do wish these things depicted more just a MAGA person screaming at random people. The left generally wants to be able to move past the seething hate of the right to make the class war we are already fighting a lot easier but the right just can’t help but fight for their oppressors.
It’s getting tiring seeing these like it’s news to both people in the image.
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It should be the rich guy marionetting the MAGA guy and hiding behind him. Nobody is trying to make conservatives into second class citizens.
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The rich guy is marionetting the maga guy and the hardcore leftist, just with different strings.
Leftists are even easier to fracture actually because it's such a large tent.
At the end of the day, we're all left fighting over bullshit while the 1% siphon off all the wealth.
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Leftists: “Harris working with Liz Cheney is bad.”, “Moderates should stop trying to reach across the aisle”
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Yes, because all it has done is enable the conservatives to do heinous shit. There is no compromise between wanting human rights and not wanting them. There is no “moderate” position on giving women the right to choose abortion, for example.
Harris working with Liz Cheney was bad because she was so hyper focused on that that she left a large portion of her base behind. She killed all her momentum to court conservatives who still didn’t like her all that much right up until the end. This is not hidden information unless you choose to ignore it so your argument can make sense.
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Harris working with Liz Cheney was bad because she was so hyper focused on that that she left a large portion of her base behind.
What does this even mean? How did she “leave them behind”?
She killed all her momentum to court conservatives who still didn’t like her all that much right up until the end.
What “momentum to court conservatives”? She was trying to get never-Trumpers to vote for her. Taking votes from your opponent is done by all politicians every election cycle.
She didn’t change her campaign to do this afaik.
This is not hidden information unless you choose to ignore it so your argument can make sense.
Unless you can support your unfounded claims, you’ve only shared your unfounded opinion, not information.
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Calling right wingers moderates, ah Liberals.
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Is that what the leftists are doing?
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No it’s what you’re calling Harris however.
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I’ve had self proclaimed leftists on lemme tell me moderate democrats should stop reaching across the aisle.
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Moderate Dems, so Bernie and AoC?
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Yes
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Because it is both sides truthfully
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It really isn’t. The left is trying to fight the class war and the right are trying to deny trans people rights while sucking off capitalists. These are not the same thing.
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There is no Left in America except for a handful of Democrat Congressmen like Bernie Sanders and political thinkers like Chomsky,
Identity Politics itself isn't Leftwing, it's moral Liberalism, which is on a political axis which is a mainly orthogonal axis to the Left-Right one, thus the thinking of Identity Politics is something which can be part of the Leftwing when it's just an element of a broader fight for Equality and treating all people fairly (so in there it's not really a separate Identity Politics), or part of the Rightwing when the equality it fights for is narrowly defined so as to exclude the greatest inequality of all with the most widespread and impactful discrimination of all - Wealth Inequality - were it serves a sort of marketing function of "differentiating the product" of that political offer from that of other Rightwing political offers.
The later combination (Moral Liberalism + Rightwing) is Neoliberalism and is almost entirely all of what you have in the US with merely a handful of notable exceptions.
The US doesn't have a Leftwing and a Rightwing main parties, it has a Morally Liberal Rightwing party and Morally Illiberal Rightwing party.
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I’m talking about the people, bud. But even still I’m including the few politicians that genuinely want shit to be done properly.
So…yes but I don’t know who you wrote that for.
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Well, bud, it helps to make it clear that you're talking about people when talking about American politics if you actually use "the people on the Left" or "Lefties" (and similarly to the Right) rather than "the left" and "the right".
Sadly "the left" and "the right" in American politics are commonly used to mean Democrats and Republicans, when none of them is actually Left-of-center politically, probably not even anywhere near the center of the Left-Right axis, though on the Liberal-Authoritarian axis it's a different story as their main differences are along that axis.
My point still stands that Moral Liberalism is hardly an exclusive of the Left, though when it is on the Left it arises naturally from the broader fight for Equality, whilst on the Right it is at times (like in the case of the US) just a way to display a strong political difference from the other party roughly in the same place on the Left-Right axis, which is the point the OP was making.
(In countries with more parties that the American power duopoly this is often more obvious because you end up seeing parties which call themselves Liberal and are both Rightwing on Economic Subjects and Morally Liberal alongside parties which are both Leftwing* on Economic Subject and yet just as Morally Liberal as the "Liberals")
So, no, in the US context not all of the right "are trying to deny trans people rights" - half of them are and the other half want equal oppression for all non-elites, trans or otherwise.
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I don't know how many times I've seen "red hat", "magat", "trumpist", etc… as a pejorative. I'm no fan of right wing policy or Trump's cult of personality, but let's be honest, leftists and progressives deride their supporters just as much as their leaders. The racist uncle trope and face eating leopard party are perfect examples of a permission structure for infighting instead of fighting the real enemies of the working class. I have fallen victim to this mentality myself, but we have to face our own faults clear eyed and with humility. It's not both sides, but the whole spectrum of the working class that has been deceived.
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Except that no matter what happens the left will not deny the right their access to universal healthcare. The racist uncle isn’t a trope, it’s reality for far too many people. The face-eating leopards meme is always used to show examples of why supporting fascist governments is a terrible idea for everyone, even those within the governments. They are real things.
I’m just a cishet white guy, I get to choose to do the right thing and support others. For so many people, though, their very existence is under threat by these hateful morons dragging them through the dirt at any opportunity and I’m not about to tell them they have to be kind to those people. Ten years ago I was saying to at least act with compassion but these days I’m fucking disgusted by conservatives and their easily disproved, hateful nonsense. I’ll still do it, because again I get to choose, but I understand why so many of my friends are fed up.
The only people trying to deny rights and freedoms are conservatives and, like, five cherry-picked examples of an extreme leftist that the right parades around to justify their hate. If the conservative base stopped trying to shit all over the left today the left would not then jump on the opportunity to punish them, they’d just go “THANK YOU. FUCK.” and finally have the time and support needed to actually make postive differences in everyone’s lives. We know that BECAUSE IT HAPPENS ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
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actually make postive differences in everyone’s lives. We know that BECAUSE IT HAPPENS ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Fun fact: the first billionaire was Rockefeller. That probably won't surprise most people. He was THE oil baron after all. He had so much wealth that him and Carnegie tried to donate as much of their wealth to charity before they died. (They got scared by the French revolution and the giant wealth inequality that caused it.).
Anyway...... Even with Rockefeller donating and AFTER there was a progressive movement to break up the monopolies. He was out of the daily operations and just collecting a % of each broken up company. After all their terrible business dealings is when Rockefeller became a billionaire. Not because his business dealings, in spite of them. I'll say that again. HE GOT RICHER WHEN HE SHARED HIS WEALTH WITH A MIDDLE CLASS.
So yes, you are spot on.
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I meant something else with that but I see what you saw and you comment is also spot on as well.
I mostly meant that once asshole conservatives finally just fucking stop being awful the left does not turn around and get revenge on them. Most of the time people are just so fucking tired of the bullshit that a massive criminal simply resigning a post and leaving everyone the fuck alone is enough even when they should, honestly, be prosecuted.
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It's the difference between an earned pejorative and an unearned one.
If you intentionally identify yourself as a member of a cult built on hatred, you deserve how people respond to that.
That's not the same thing as hurling insults at people for being gay, trans, black, latino, asian, women, asexual, or whatever other component of people's identity that they choose to hate next.
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Maybe protecting and enriching the rich, destabilizing the country, and attacking women and minorities SHOULD be criticized.
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46 comments