Stalin the mysagonist

- ~~Doubles the workforce~~Removes the artificial societal limit that arbitrarily cuts the workforce in half
  FTFY
  
  Tad rude to refer to children as "artificial limitations"
- Removing gender roles in order to more equitably distribute the workload is progressive. You can remove morality from that equation and it still works, ergo it is absolutely something we should support and there are no reasons to perpetuate backwards gender roles.
  
  to perpetuate backwards gender roles
  I never even suggested that. Where did you get that from? All I'm saying is, people in power aren't your friends.
  Although is it a good thing that me and my wife work like crazy to keep our family going? Is this really what life is about? I'd love to be stay at home dad, yet I can't
- Both of these things are good.
  
  Maybe a bad choice of words on my part, maybe I should write "not because it's right, but because it doubles the workforce"
  Although whether "double the workforce" is good or bad, I'd keep that for a discussion, see my other comment for more info: https://lemmy.world/comment/16185467
- Are you trying to imply doubling the available workforce is not good? Its usually a good thing. While their motivations are cynical, those leaders are doing good.
  ...or are you trying to imply that keeping women out of the traditional work force (by only allowing them to work unpaid in the home in domestic servitude, labor that capital does not value) increases the value of male labor through scarcity, which would be preferred?
  Sorry that second question kind of reads as an attack. A shitty coworker of mine said that to me unironically and tried to play it off as a joke when I pushed back.
  
  It would be nice if one salary, no matter the gender of the breadwinner, could sustain a family.
  
  I think this inherently accepts the narrative that the work women were doing before had no or little value.
  That care and emotional labour should not fall solely on women and we should all have the opportunity to partake in meaningful work but we shouldn't accept having to accept less time for care (and leisure) on some trumped up definition of what's productive/economic or not.
  
  It doesn't matter to me whether the man or woman has the job, what matters to me is that one working person could support a family, kids, owning a home, some vacations and still had enough money to save up and be generally not very concerned with finances.
  
  Are you trying to imply doubling the available workforce is not good? Its usually a good thing.
  Women not being forced to do the reproductive labour in the family? Good.
  Families being coerced into having two incomes to make ends meet, meaning they don't get as much time with their children as they like? Bad.
  
  Sorry for late response and I see the comment is now deleted by a mod but whatever (well we're on .ml after all).
  What I was trying to point out, was the "cynical" part of it. That people in power often don't do it because they want to empower women or help people, more often than not it's just that it brings more people into their "meat grinder" - regardless of the regime. In case of capitalism it's obvious but it doesn't need to be money necessarily; in the case of Stalin - pardon me if I don't believe that he did it for "supporting women rights and making the world a better place ✌️", he did it for the raw economic power to compete with US during cold war and so his own country wouldn't collapse because of his stupid actions.
  Whether doubling the workforce is a good thing - that I'd keep up for a debate. I deliberately didn't want to say anything in that area, I'm just saying that the motivation of people in power is cynical, not saying if result is good or bad.
  But if you'd want my personal stance - I do believe that in order to achieve welfare/prosperity, not all the people have to work. And I do believe that there are more important things in life than working. I'd love to be a stay at home dad, but I can't. Even though my country sort of supports it, my pay would cut dramatically and we as a family wouldn't be able to survive.
  But honestly thank you for asking. It's very refreshing to meet a person who asks and tries to understand the motivation of the commenter rather than jumping right to the conclusion (as almost every other response here)
- Way to turn the communist acheivement of women's empowerment into something negative.
  
  I literally said it's a positive thing, just that motivation of people in power is cynical. Also I didn't mention communism, I meant it in general regardless of regime
- Yeah, and no fault divorce keeps the workforce happier and reduces domestic violence (meaning less injured and killed workers), abortion on demand makes it easier for people to continue working, and socializing former domestic labor improves the efficiency of that work and frees up labor for leisure or other labor, but those things are still good and part of the socialist feminist project.

Because the former Soviet Union, with all its defects, never gave much of a shit about gender roles, you are going to learn science even if it takes your whole life. I guess some of that cultured stayed after Ussr collapsed
- Read Alexandra Kollontai, the liberation of women from household oppression was something they actually did give a shit about and was intentional.
  
  Didn't it end up that women were liberated to work same as men but also at home they had the home work too. Russia never really lost that patriarchal family dynamic.
- They very much cared about gender roles, but also pretty early figured out that women in the workforce are economically beneficial. So the situation was (and unfortunately is) that women are shamed if they don't earn money OR don't look good OR don't cook/clean/care about children. I am honestly fascinated how average woman manages these three shifts. In academia btw there's still a huge gender bias even when women make the majority of students and generally perform better.
- Yes and also everyone is supposed to work if they can (ideally). No mooching under socialism.
- Women were supposed to perform all the domestic labour. All of it. That myth of liberated soviet woman shatters the second you learn about any aspect of the soviet existance.
  30 years later, and I still can't convince my mom that doing all the domestic work and be toe-to-toe with men in a workplace isn't something all women just have to do.

But at what cost?!
- Lots of unnessessary deaths and emprisonment
  
  How do you think unnecessary deaths and imprisonment in the Soviet Union were related to its egalitarian approach to education?
  
  Me when my country still has lynchings of black and brown people, had horrific racial discrimination during the worst of the USSRs excesses, has the highest per capita incarceration rate of overwhelmingly black and indigenous people, is responsible in part for the deaths of over 1 million Iraqis, put Japanese Americans in concentration camps during WW2 just in case they were spies, genocided their native population and still effectively operates apartheid for the remaining natives, supports the ongoing genocide of Palestinians, locked up and tortured MENA people without trial post 9/11 in an offshore torture camp, ran black sites all across Iraq and Afghanistan doing more torture of brown people and on and on and on and on and on and on....
  
  You should really learn to spell words before you try to fight a bunch of liberal nerds.

This is more of an indication that the USSR had a functional public education system, and the dictatorship style, top down style education is indeed good at hammering (STEM based) academic skills into young brains. Arguably, most other non third world countries are doing a better job at the public school system than the US

- That's not what the science says btw. If you go to Russia and ask old people about how they feel about the USSR, they are significantly more likely to have favourable views of the USSR than young people who didn't experience it. If you are interested, you can also look at Generational and Geographic Effects on Collective Memory of the USSR.
  
  Checks out with what I have heard, when I lived in a city of the former East Germany
  
  Old people in Russia will not remember the Stalin era, but the Khrushchev era (the post-gulag era, famous for de-stalinization) and the Brezhnev era. Old people also tend to romatisize their youth. And romatisizing the Soviet Union is mixed with ethno-nationalism in current days Russia.
  I consider myself a socialist, but stalinism is dog-shit.
  
  I won't deny the scientific studies.
  I am speaking from personal and family experience
- Vaguely hates communism because that's been the western cultural norm for the last century
  Decides to talk to some people who have actually lived under communism; every single one confirms that your view of communism is wildly inaccurate and states their preference for communism
  Goes back to hating communism anyway because both sides or something
  
  I think you should use your experiences in Azerbaijan as a push to confront some of your biases, and re-examine your understanding of Socialism in the Soviet Union. It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't "totalitarian" by any stretch either. The benefits of the Socialist economic structure are pined for precisely because they worked, and did so for the common people. There are improvements that can and have been made in other Socialist countries, but these improvements would not have been possible without the brave Soviet people pioneering Socialism as it exists in the real world.
  
  There's a saying in the ex socialist republics. "Those who don't miss the USSR have no heart, but those who want it back have no brains." Think that about sums it up.
  
  100% agree : I won't deny the nostalgia factor !
- Telling me what to think is totalitarian
  
  totalitarian is when capitalists hold no political power, thus intrinsically evil.
- I used to live in Chemnitz, and that’s exactly what o have done, the answers were not as I expected, most people said that, one or two things were better, the quality of life generali has gotten worse.
- I don’t think communism and ussr were saints free of all sin but on the other side of the coin I also think there is a lot of things about communism that were made up to make it look worse than it was, I mean capitalism did some propaganda. I used to live in a city that was formerly East Germany and I did ask around what people remember what it was like and what they thought was better, and most of them said they preferred the old system, one or two things are better now but the general quality of life now is worse. Me, being Portuguese, and therefor bombarded with capitalist propaganda since birth was completely 🤯
- 100% this. Im from Russia and I have heard many horrible stories from older relatives about previous generations and life under the USSR. Life is definitely shitty now, but it's still better than those years
  
  Lol you're not even allowed to have your own personal experiences here, that's apparently in conflict with the glorious Data.
- I'm not sure how this would be considered good, it's still oppression. The result just happens to be desirable but that doesn't justify the way it was achieved.
  
  If we want gender equality, it will have to be forced.

Is this a meme ?

Yeah because working outside and still doing all the domestic work is so much better than being confined to the house. Who needs feminism?
No doubt the Soviet Union was a huge step forward for women but this is just a dumb thing to say. Women doing unpaid household labour and emotional labour has always been the case.
- The USSR was also the first country on a large scale to move unpaid domestic labour into the paid socialized sector: it created communal kitchens, communal child-care, all paid for by the state. The PRC followed that same model.
  How are you liberals this ignorant of these attempts? Marxist feminists started the domestic labor debate, and were the only ones who attempted to put solutions into practice.
  
  You don't need all of these communal things if a family simply raises their kids in a traditional way. What you're describing is the commoditization of the nuclear family. It's roundabout and worse overall. No one will love your kids and care for them like you will. Also the state pays for nothing because the state makes no money. It comes from the labor of the people. So really the mom is forced into the workforce to pay for childcare. Lol.

Mysagony: the Silant Killar

What about trans women?
- Seems like the soviet government was more responsive than contemporary western governments, but not as much as east Germany: https://artsmatter.blogs.bristol.ac.uk/2025/01/28/trans-visibility-in-the-late-soviet-union/#%3A%7E%3Atext=First%2C+they+became+visible%2C+at%2Crecognized+as+ordinary+Soviet+citizens.

"Mysagonist" misogynist... Typo or am I missing a joke about agony under Stalin?
- Nothing makes you feel agony quite like free healthcare and education.
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin#%3A%7E%3Atext=This+contained+official+records+of%2Cofficially+recorded+victims+in+these

Yes, there are many women working at science institutes in post-soviet countries. As lab technicians with extremely low wages. There are almost no women directors or women lab heads. These are all men. In Russia, women occupy majority of work places in education and, yes, science. But mostly as low-paying teachers and lab technicians. There are of course exceptions. But this post doesn't really show the reality and gives false idea about women experiences in soviet and then post-soviet countries.
Edited to say that I know it's in memes, but I just got triggered..

Ah, right! This is among the reasons why Russia has the lowest share of seats held by women in politics (won’t go into business) in Europe (Statista).

- bolshevik states aren’t famous for freedom of career choice
  What is your basis for this opinion? Have you read any books, articles, or interviews on this topic?
  And how much career choice do I have, really, under capitalism? Tons of jobs don't even pay a subsistence wage, to say nothing of a wage that would let someone do basic things like own a home and raise a family. A bunch of other career paths are blocked by various types of non-merit barriers. If you do find a job that pays decently, you have very little control over the actual work and can usually be re-assigned to a different task with no recourse.
  
  I thought this was about Soviet science, not whataboutisms?
- libtard