[Meta] Admins (not mods) here are already swinging around the content-removal-hammer

For context, I encourage people to check this discussion in the "join Lemmy" site github. Have in mind that both of the Lemmy developers in that discussion are also admins of the lemmy.ml instance, and they clearly disagree if the instance in question should be considered as "hosting CSAM" or not.
- Yup, that was a bit of a shit show all around, made the rounds in the privacy communities as well and they were not pleased with the blatant censorship over there either. I guess stuff like this is why a lot of those people hang around dbzer0 now. To each interest an instance with fitting policies I guess.
  The really sad part though is how it locks in users on lemmy.ml, you can't even really link to a safe haven because doing so is already grounds to get the post/comment removed
  
  Pretty happy with my instance. :)
  Tbf though I don't check the mod log.
  Do you get a message if something happened with your post?

I saw that post yesterday. It's true but it says "mods" for me:
Kinda crazy when its linked at the sidebar.
- These actions are being taken by .ml site admin Arthur Besse / cypherpunks. There's nothing I can do as a mere community mod ^^
  
  I can see that you downvoted besse's comment asking for volunteers with three different accounts of yours. This downvote manipulation viewer is already proving useful.
  
  this comment was deleted by someone else for disclosing the identity behind a mod action, but since it was my identity being revealed i am choosing to reply to it.
  These actions are being taken by .ml site admin Arthur Besse / cypherpunks. There’s nothing I can do as a mere community mod ^^
  As a moderator, you could and imo definitely should remove the links to that instance from the sidebar, and in their place put a note mentioning that sexualized drawings of children are not allowed here. I'm not really into anime but I have enjoyed some and I would rather that we could have a community for it here than not. But, that requires moderators who are willing to delete things like that (not to mention not link to it themselves).
  Any volunteers?
- Yeah that makes sense
- For me it says "admins". I don't know if it's because I'm a mod of a few other lemmy.ml comms, or if it's because of the different backend versions (SJW uses 0.18.5, lemmy.ml uses 0.19.1).

ml admins hate anime and don't want it on their instance. Simple as that.
- I mean yeah, that's why the talk about moving the stragglers was even brought up. Keeping this anime community is neither in the best interest of the .ml admins nor in the best interest of the community.
  
  Its really unfortunate that the ml admins are the way they are. Too bad there cant be a mass mod message sent as a DM to subscribers telling them where to move to. That make sit tedious and can make those left behind feel lost. But I guess if enough move over and the anime community that is more social than this one gets bigger maybe itll be easier to find? Who knows.
  I was only here because it was the first search result a while back.
- I miss the animation age ghetto, tbh, this new Japanese hate is way more annoying.

To add a bit more opinion: If you have an account on lemmy.ml itself and read/comment in either the Anime or Manga community I urgently recommend you migrate to a different instance. As far as I can tell the instance we shan't name here anymore for fear of admin abuse is still visible on join-lemmy.org after widespread complaints that removing an instance from there based on admin opinion alone is not exactly nice.
Best way to tell you how to find it is go to join-lemmy.org and look for an obviously anime themed instance in the "Art" category. Not sure if just saying that is grounds for removal though, depends on how trigger happy the admins here are.

I just moved to lemm.ee from lemmy.ml because I was tired of the .ml admins constantly removing any minor criticism of BRICS-allied countries for "xenophobia". I think it would be a good idea to abandon the instance altogether, especially for topics such as world news.
Pretty weird move to develop a social media platform with a transparent modlog and still partake in censorship on your own instance.
- I've not heard many positive things about the ml instance. I ended up on the dot world because I didn't know that much about the fediverse. Hell, I still don't know that much.

Sorry for the double reply. Here's a practical idea: what if the mods of this comm contacted lemmy.ml's admins? Ideally doing two things:
Clarifying that the instance in question does not have child sexual abuse material, and requesting users to be allowed to link it.
Expressing desire to migrate !anime@lemmy.ml to the instance in question, and highlighting that this is convenient for both sides of the matter.
Among the admins I think that Nutomic would be the best to contact, given the github thread.
- I highly doubt 1 will work given the reaction they had initially to claims it contains csam. 2 could potentially work though, maybe they'd have to write in a disclaimer of sorts to get the admins on board. If the link is the problem and not the wording just writing the instance name without a link would also work I guess.
  @N3DSdude, @Nami, @ram, @rammy What are the mods' thoughts on this idea?

Maybe link to a community which can then link to the actual target? Both beehaw and lemmy.world have general anime communities. Not a perfect solution, granted, but it might be a usable workaround.

Really showing your ass here by suggesting that you want to move to an instance with pedo content.
edit: undeleted for posterity
- I see two options as to why you made that comment:
  1: you just blindly believe what that admin said and have no opinion of your own, if that is the case I highly doubt a discussion is possible
  2: you actually believe anime is csam in which case a discussion won't be possible either because we don't share the same definition of what csam is
  As a closing note I find it hilarious that someone from hexbear of all places tries to ridicule people for trying to move to a safe space for their community
  Edit: case in point against the csam claim is the fact that the instance in question got re-added to join-lemmy.org because the material that got it removed was not remotely seen as csam by the other maintaners
  
  Well at first I assumed there was probably validity to what Dessalines said, because I consider them credible and I know enough about anime to know that there is a lot of csam that hides behind bullshit justifications. Even in this thread there's discussion of a show that blatantly tittilates the audience with underage characters that would absolutely qualify as csam in any other community except in the anime community, for some reason.
  And then I went onto the anime lemmy everyone is surreptitiously talking about, and the literal first post I saw was a body pillow design featuring an underage character that is right on the line of being csam. It was the only example I saw in my brief look, and it didn't quite qualify, which is why I came back and deleted my comment.
  I don't care about what the maintainers' view of the matter is, I make (and sometimes delete) my comments based on my own view of it.

It's weird that this /c !anime@lemmy.ml doesn't show up on neither Feddit's Community Browser https://browse.feddit.de/ or Lemmy Explorer https://lemmyverse.net/communities when searching for "anime"
Instead anime@(the-instance-that-shall-not-be-named).social shows up first on Community Browser, and
I'm not sure what to make of that.
Is someone trying to shadow deprecate this /c/ ?
- I highly doubt anyone is actively fucking with the /c here (other than the admins). I'd simply suspect missing metadata or some shit before assuming someone is somehow covertly sabotaging multiple open content discovery services for the fediverse.
  The source code for lemmyverse is public so there's no need to just speculate. I haven't checked myself but I highly doubt anime@lemmy.ml is somehow getting filtered out of the search results. Imo it's mich more likely that the community is just the victim of some bug. Maybe check again in a few days, I know lemmyverse had issues with communities disappearing when they couldn't be reached during the listing updates.
- Like @neshura@bookwormstory.social said, those sites have instances drop on and off the rankings all the time. I had been checking lemmyverse quite frequently over the past couple months...for no reason I am going to mention in this thread...and instances will disappear and reappear every couple days. The ml instance in particular was prone to that. No foul play going on, just typical software flakiness.

All they've removed is a post that linked to an instance that they had de-federated from. They haven't really taken off any anime related content from the time I've been here so claiming it's content removal hammer is overblown. I also don't agree with the migration to the other instance. This is the largest anime community by far on lemmy, it's where most new users will migrate to and other than not having access to Shinobu, there has been little to no signs of being censored or anything.
- People come here because it's big. It's big because people come here.
  What if we went over there? What if we made the one over there big? Big, and entirely under the control of actual fans of anime who don't dismiss the entire medium as porn, I might add. Wouldn't that be better?
  
  I think some people have stockholm from how anime communities were treated on reddit and don't realize that they can get a whole lot less censorship than that. I think it's in everyone's best interest if we move this last piece over. The lemmy.ml admins (at least in part) don't want us here and people coming here likely don't want the same bs censorship that was on reddit. Always ducking your head because getting noticed means half the content of the month gets hammered wasn't fun on reddit and if possible I'd like this to be a better experience than that.
- In my opinion, the migration is sensible because:
  You need to know a topic decently enough to be able to moderate a community about it. And yet it's unreasonable to expect the admins of lemmy.ml - a community about free/open source and privacy - to know about anime.
  There's no inherent reason why this comm is the largest anime comm in Lemmy. It's simply that this comm is three years old, from a time when "Lemmy" was mostly just lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, there was no other place in Lemmy to discuss anime.
  Lemmy as a whole benefits from redirecting traffic from larger instances to smaller ones. Specially instances unrelated to politics and tech. In fact, lemmy.ml's admins asked users to use other instances not too long ago.
  
  Communities are best served by an instance more tailored to their content. General instances are good and convenient for people new to the platform, but they're dangerous to communities. Think of all the beehaw.org communities that are effectively quarantined from .world users. Not that defederation is wrong, in fact I'm a huge supporter of defederation as a whole. But putting relevant content onto a more relevant instance will ensure that the community will be more likely accessible, broadly, to users regardless of defederation.
  If .ml wishes to not have anime content, that's entirely their prerogative. It's important, then, that anime be moved to somewhere that is is welcome, or else those in the community may find themselves without a community at any given time.
  
  You need to know a topic decently enough to be able to moderate a community about it. And yet it's unreasonable to expect the admins of lemmy.ml - a community about free/open source and privacy - to know about anime.
  This is what mods are for. The sleight-of-hand is silly and obvious.
- Actually according to the modlog, some "mod" removed for "Mahou Shoujo ni Akogarete • Gushing over Magical Girls - Episode 1 discussion" citing Rule 3 "No Porn"
  I mean the show is risque, but we're starting to see nipples on Hollywood red carpets these days...
  "mod" being in quotes because of the uncertainty elsewhere in this post...
  
  I mean the show is risque, but
  If there's an "uncensored" version* because of the nudity, it probably qualifies as soft porn, all the more when a portion of the cast are minors (as the Wikipedia summary suggests they are). This doesn't strike me as a hill worth dying on.
  *It's been trending on 9anime
- It really isn't the largest though, maybe by users but certainly not by activity. For example the post about "The Boy and Heron" winning a golden globe got 9 comments on the unspeakable instance and only 2 here. From my own experience posting to both that seems to be the norm.
  Regarding content removal from what I saw in the modlog the most concerning action other than preventing people from talking about alternatives was removing the Alya-san Key Visuals. So that gives you a good baseline of what will get hammered if noticed: pretty much everything.
  The defederation being grounds for removal of all mention is a bit silly but not a discussion I'm willing to go into here as it would be pretty off-topic. I repsect your opinion on the matter but imo it's a very slippery slope to ban talking about something outright.
  To be pretty blunt here closing down here is more a formality than anything really, even just stat wise there are slightly more active users on the other instance and the users there are apparently a lot more engaged in discussion than people here.
- They removed a post on Mahoako and a post on Roshidere apparently. And most people sign up for .world anway
  
  People sign up for .world and subscribe to this community.