Itch.io games site taken down

I mean, it sounds like a lawsuit to me.
A takedown request was issued on false grounds.
This takedown was then actioned without any due process.
The issue has caused tangible, and measurable, loss (calculable from prior sales records).
Honestly, there needs to be a fixed penalty fine for bad takedowns...
- Fixed penalties just become the cost of doing business. Like actors, we need to start asking for percentage of gross.
  
  Imo we need to start attaching criminal penalties to the people behind businesses that knowingly abuse their power and position like this. Corporate bullying isn't a financial position, it's a failing of ethics.
- Takedown requests being spammed everywhere is sort of standard, what's crazy is that their domain holder immediately honored the request, completely ignoring how massive itch io is with millions of users...
- Honestly, there needs to be a fixed penalty fine for bad takedowns...
  Absolutely not, fixed fines become expected costs, and immensely favor monied actors. Make it percentage based so it hurts equally, and rich people actually have to pay a measurable amount.
  
  Fixed fine on a sliding scale for repeat offenders
- Funko would drag a lawsuit out for years, but Itch might have the spite to push through it.
  
  They'd probably settle. It's not worth the cost to funko either
- I believe all of this is legal thanks to DMCA.
  
  The DMCA doesn't make false requests legal (I'm also not sure if this specific issue falls under the DMCA), but it does fail to define any meaningful penalty for making them.
  
  Domain names arent copyrightable. This falls into trademark laws.
  
  Maybe if they followed the dmca process
  
  They made a false fraud report, not a DMCA takedown (which shouldn’t have taken down the entire site anyway).
- Fixed minimum penalty
- Hopefully this ruins Funko Fucks
- Would the lawsuit be against funko or the registrar (or both) ?
  
  Probably both if you can make the case for it. Funko for the false request, the registrar for not doing their due diligence in honoring it. Depending on the wording of the law the registrar may be off the hook however, so whether there's a case to be brought there would be a question for their lawyers.

Itch.io dev about this situation on Hacker News.
- Leafo
  I'm the one running itch.io, so here's some more context for you:
  From what can tell, some person made a fan page for an existing Funko Pop video game (Funko Fusion), with links to the official site and Screenshots of the game. The BrandShield software is probably instructed to eradicate all "unauthorized" use of their trademark, so they sent reports independently to our host and registrar claiming there was "fraud and phishing" going on, likely to cause escalation instead of doing the expected DMCA/cease-and-desist. Because of this, I honestly think they're the malicious actor in all of this. Their website, if you care: https://www.brandshield.com/
  About 5 or 6 days ago, received these reports on our host (Linode) and from our registrar (iwantmyname). I expressed my disappointment in my responses to both of them but told them had removed the page and disabled the account. Linode confirmed and closed the case. iwantmyname never responded. This evening, got a downtime alert, and while debugging, I noticed that the domain status had been set to "serverHold" on iwantmyname's domain panel. We have no other abuse reports from iwantmyname other than this one. I'm assuming no one on their end "closed" the ticket, so it went into an automatic system to disable the domain after some number of days.
  I've been trying to get in touch with them via their abuse and support emails, but no response likely due to the time of day, so decided to "escalate" the issue myself on social media.
  (OCR)
- What HN client is this?
  
  https://f-droid.org/packages/nl.viter.glider/
- where is hacker news
  
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42364033

What the absolute fuck? itch.io is fucking massive, how did the registar just treat them like this? goddamn!
- There's been an aggressive push against gaming recently. Check all the recent Steam news.
  
  I haven't seen anything like that. What steam news specifically are you referring to?
- They're not really all that massive, just a medium-large fish in a small pond. If this had been about Microsoft or Sony or some other brand that any random non-gamer you stop in the street will have heard of, they might have gotten special treatment from the registrar, but itch.io? Not even nearly big enough. gog wouldn't be either. Steam might just pass the minimum threshold.
  
  There is no way in hell that steam would have this happen, the amount of money they have behind them combined with the name alone, no registrar would dare disable their domain without being damn sure what was happening was actually happening.
  Stream would seek the registar for restitution/compensation, and if you take the yearly Revenue and divide that by the hours in a year they are approaching the $1,000 an hour mark. Of course this number would be different if they actually took it to court. But due to this alone I highly doubt their domain Handler(Mark Monitor) would touch that claim with a 10-ft pole without doing some pretty intensive research
  
  So if you're a small pond how do you treat your medium-large fish this way of not even listening to their response?
- You say it like it's okay to do if you are not fucking massive.
  
  Obviously that's not what I meant. Be charitable.

Funko? That irrelevant, ugly, shitty, cheap, tacky, terrible brand from the 2010's that lacks any relevance in 2024?
Yeah, I know 'em.
- I like how people collected them as if they'd be valuable. I survived the beanie baby craze, fool me once and all that.
- I see their junk at every thrift store and flea market in Ohio.
  I legitimately thought they went out of business.
- youtooz is working with snaller creators unlike funko which i think olny worked with m(iste)r b(r)east
  
  I've always been more interested in youtooz than Funko Pop's, since they do collaborate with creators I thought their products a few times. On the streamers I watch used to have an adorable dog with a hat and it came out to be a lot better quality than I thought it was going to be

I've always hated funkopops, they're ugly and the very epitome of the enshitification and commercialisation of geek culture. This does nothing to change my mind
- Yes and they’re yet another collectible product that exploits the psychology of a subset of people who compulsively collect things. I put them in the same category as gambling and note that there’s a lot of crossover with these things (loot boxes and CCG booster packs being prime examples of a gambling and collectible combo).
  
  Yeah, I hate those assholes too. I feel bad for anyone who falls for their business model.
  Glances at my Tyranid collection
- The FOMO based businesses are preying on people with poor impulse control...which there are no shortage of in the nerd world.
- My partner has an entire bookcase of them, all still in box.
  
  Get them out and play with them!
- My mom got me my first one in 2019 or 2020 because she thought it was cute (Guyfolye from Silicon Valley). A few months later she asked me if they were just Beanie Babies and I thought that was the end of it. Now every Christmas I get one even though she knows I don't like them and we both snark on the super niche weird ones. She even got custom ones for me and my wife last year. It never ends, and I have 6 sets of beady little eyes staring at me when I'm watching TV in the basement.
  
  I feel like you need to hear this: just because someone gifts you something doesn't mean you need to keep it endlessly, or at all. Donate/giveaway/trash.
- A true death of art.
  I remember going through the prices my buddy paid for his with actual sculptures on Etsy and him just getting more and more annoyed. He's probably going to have a Funko themed wedding next year.
- I wouldn't say the epitome, have you heard of The Big Bang Theory?
  
  I wouldn't say that show commercialized geek culture. It seemed to me it was more about how geek culture should be the butt of jokes. And ASD people as well.
  
  I've seen enough of it to know I don't like it for pretty much the same reasons

If lawmakers would simply make the entity responsible for the operation of these AI powered tools be fully liable for every decision that it makes, right or wrong, this kind of nonsense would vanish overnight.
I hope the people running itch.io have great lawyers, because I would be trying to take Funko to court for punitive damages over something like this.
Also, while we're at it, reform the DMCA to disallow automated copyright related takedown requests without some sort of human reviewing it at the other end. It's been abused to hell and back by big business.
- Also, while we're at it, reform the DMCA to disallow automated copyright related takedown requests without some sort of human reviewing it at the other end. It's been abused to hell and back by big business.
  Itch.io shared on hackernews that they apparently sent a report for fraud and phishing, not copyright infringement. So sounds like funko was abusing the system even if automated copyright claims weren't a thing.
- If lawmakers would simply make the entity responsible for the operation of these AI powered tools be fully liable for every decision that it makes, right or wrong, this kind of nonsense would vanish overnight.
  They are? AI isn't some autonomous entity with its own legal rights and responsibilities.
  The problem is that these actions aren't illegal. This is all a civil issue, and yeah, hopefully itch.io puts a hurt on Brand Shield but I doubt it.
- If you think about it, until now there’s been an u spoken, automatic limit on all government activity because some person has to actually implement all government activity.
  That’s been, through all of history, at least some kind of filter on the actions government would take.
  (I’m using the term “government” ultra loosely, since in this case it’s a private entity implementing policy; “government” as in an authority who can halt a person’s operations as they see fit. “Government” in the same way management or command structure or the principal’s office is like a “government” in its little realm of operation).
  Up until now, government has to be done by people. But AI makes it easy to do tons of activity, which can have a larger disruptive impact.

Fucko pop should be forced to pay damages. It's too easy for shitty companies to send out takedown notices and too difficult for those takedown notices to be contested by comparison.
- the "oh our automated system did it oopsies please forgive us" excuse doesn't make it any better either
- That was the whole point of the DMCA, though. Prevent bad publicity by claiming copyright infringement and companiea have to take down the content before they investigate any response. Any time a company doesn't do that they are risking their own necks. So usually they only ignore it if they know for sure it's bogus which requires that they spend the resources on a person reviewing every notice before the required time expires.

Back when I opened my comic and game shop (I no longer do comics, just games) I tried to get an account with Funko directly. They did not believe me that New Mexico is in the United States. The response was along the lines of, "if you feel that you are in the United States, we can pursue this further. But I suggest you opening an account with one of our Latin American distributors."
- I could understand that if they were an overseas company, but they are from the US. That had to be one of the most incompetent customers service reps ever.
  
  It is not uncommon, I was almost arrested when I moved to PA because I did not have a passport, or visa, or green card to go with my NM ID that clearly says USA on it for this very reason. Our license plates also say USA on them.
  Maryland also refused me a license twice saying that I needed proof I am a citizen, despite having my NM birth certificate.
  I also had two other distributors tell me they do not sell to Mexico.
  The president elect also has made the mistake. He said we need a border wall between Mexico and Colorado.
  
  Yeah, New Mexico IDs and license plates both say “New Mexico, USA” for exactly this reason. So many people have almost been illegally arrested and turned over to ICE by incompetent cops during traffic stops. Cops will pull New Mexico plates over, see the New Mexico ID, and demand to see visa paperwork because they think the person is from Mexico.
  
  The customer service rep is also AI. And if it isn't, u can bet your ass in 5 years its just going to be AI all the way down for anything support related. Literally anything to not have to pay humans for work.
- This reminds of the story of some company not shipping to the Rhode Island because it's an island not a state. Maybe someone here remembers more details
  
  Tbf, the Commonwealth of Rhode island and Providence Plantations don't even call themselves a state.
- Did you send them a map?

~~AI will take our jobs~~
AI will create more jobs because there will be dedicated staff who needs to handle the fallout when it does stupid shit
- Turns out we can solve the unemployment crisis by just creating problems for ourselves! Let's start throwing eggs at windows to get window cleaners more business.
  
  This is surely what Reagan envisioned every Spring.
- Yeah but it's gonna be those slimy lawer-types

I'd bet these fan projects lead to more sales of their garbage products, but these corporations don't see that because they want that licensing money now. Or they're just spiteful and vindictive like Nintendo.
- On one level, I sympathize with companies like Nintendo, I don't want to, BUT companies are supposed to make efforts to protect their IP or they run the risk of losing those exclusive protections when it matters later on (abandonment). So if they want to continue their IP rights, they're supposed to defend it against anything that comes along. I still don't like it, but I kind of understand why they have to do it.
  Granted, I think they could come up with some sort of licensing terms that would made it easy for solo developers to still develop small-time projects to encourage people to create these one-off labors of love, similar to what alot of TTRPG developers do, but for whatever reason, they go the hardball approach, which just creates bad feelings in the community.
  https://www.themyerslg.com/blog/what-happens-if-you-dont-defend-your-ip/
  
  They have to defend their trademark. They don't have to defend copyright, and most of Nintendo's reputation comes from copyright claims. Someone streaming a let's play isn't selling a counterfeit Mario game, they're just showing you things in a real Mario game, so there's no trademark claim.
  They're also big abusers of the fact that most of the people they make copyright claims against can't afford to defend themselves against such a behemoth. Even if you're sure you've not violated their copyright and your lawyer's sure, too, it'll be much cheaper to roll over than get the legal system to agree with you.
  
  I don’t want to, BUT companies are supposed to make efforts to protect their IP or they run the risk of losing those exclusive protections when it matters later on (abandonment).
  My understanding is that 1.- they are not forced to defend against every possible case of trademark usage 2.- they are not obligated by law to be jerks about it and 3.- this applies to trademark only, not copyright or patents.

This is crazy. How can they just take down your domain without at least discussing the issue.

Every single DMCA request should have to be filled out by hand and signed by the infringed party, not on their behalf by a third parry, under penalty of perjury. This is absolute bullshit.
- The DMCA still has a lot of problems. Like if someone uploads something behind a paywall, the victim has to pay before they can even send a valid notice.

It's back up now!

At first I was like "WTF does an indie games site have to do with Funko?" then I Googled it...
Looks like they hosted a BUNCH of infringing games, so Funko, instead of doing the righteous thing and sending them a takedown request, just nuked the whole domain...
- Sounds about right for funko lol.
  ( though tbh, listing all games that taken the funko brand would be a massive task lol ).
  Still, this one hell of a messy shit i wouldnt want to touch legally haha
  
  though tbh, listing all games that taken the funko brand would be a massive task lol
  That's what the brandshield "AI" was supposed to automate. Hell, I could possibly cobble some python script to crawl through itch and create a list of infriging games/devs, something that wouldn't take more than 1 day.
- So from what I've heard at least some of those are just fan pages that just link to the official site.

Huh, so I've always disliked funkopoops but just because I didn't like the mass production design and they were made in China with no evidence trying not to be made with slave labor.
Now I have a new reason

Welcome to Web 3 I guess. Automated systems ignoring real actors
- Web 3 was crypto scams, we're up to web 6 or 7 by now
  
  Web 3.0 was actually the Semantic Web originally, the cryptobros are bad at counting.
  
  AI scams

- Sorry, obviously the public awareness of the people making these decisions is dangerous information.
  DAMN YOU ANTHROPOMORPHIZED COMPANY RUN BY NOBODY WHO THEREFORE CAN MAKE SHITTY DECISIONS HIDING BEHIND CAPITALISM!!!
  Thank your glorious mods for protecting our corporate overlords.
  
  I'm with you about not anthropomorphizing faceless companies as the bad actors here, but also I really doubt the CEO was the one who enacted this decision. It probably came from some middle manger who clicked "yes" on some report they didn't actually read.
- Cynthia "Philip Morris" Williams
- Comment removed or am i dumb? What did it say?
- I like the joke, but does this situation really warrant a death sentence?
  
  Of course not. But do people really get to make shitty decisions that impact other people while hiding behind the veil of corporate structure without being directly named and shamed for their decisions?
  
  she also led fulfillment by amazon lol
  
  Wow wow wow. Who said anything about death? This clearly calls for a broken leg at most.
  But it we take into account the amount of trash they generate...

Might be a good time to change domain while you're at it, if .io is about to be retired.
- It probably won't be.
  Not only is the agreement between the UK and Mauritius on the brink of collapsing (bizarrely, the UK is trying to get rid of territory and Mauritius doesn't particularly want it very much), but there's so much reliance on the .io domain that it's unlikely to be removed.
  Especially because tech giants like Google, Microsoft, and Apple make use of it.
  
  ICANN is pretty strict about this following some complications that happened back in the 90's . No country, no country code, no domain. No matter who, no matter what.
  
  I will take it
- They want to change it? But why?
  
  I think they are referring to this.
  As in, it's not that they want, they might have to.

"We did not commit crime, we commited it with alforithm". Cory Doctorow had talk about it long before AI was mainstream.
- "We did not commit crime, the algorithm committed crime", rather
  
  I don't remember what exactly he said, but I think it was from this video.

Not only is this absolutely inexcusable, also, Funko Pops are ugly and creepy-looking and I don't understand why people spend so much money on them just because they look vaguely like the characters or people they're supposed to represent.
God I hate our whole system.
- Funko pops are for people that lack a personality and try to create one by buying dumb shit that sits on a shelf and depreciates in value. They're just memecoin bros
  
  Hey.
  Just because I dont have a personality and try desperately to fit in doesnt mean I am as stupid as the cryptobro morons.
  
  That's basically what I was trying to say, but you put it better. Thank you.
  
  It's beanie babies 2.0

Looks like they switched to 1api.net
https://www.whois.com/whois/itch.io
- Good. If a registrar causes issues because of their own non-response during their own investigation then it's useless.

Man GNUnet cannot come soon enough Or they'll have to switch registrars
- Or Tenfingers (shameless plug)
  
  Interesting
- If top level domains are user-configured based on which start zones users select, could that run into issues where two people think they're going to the same domain, but actually go to different domains?
  It sounds like having your instance admin in charge of what google.com points to, instead of ICANN being in charge of all of them.

more details by itch.io dev
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42364033

That's fucking crazy. Anyone notice how AI has only made everything shittier?
- It's automating the enshittification. A large language model doesn't need to sleep and doesn't have a conscience.
  AI as we know it now is, in a nut shell, the automation of "I was just following orders". Or a digital factory line of evil. Either way, this is about removing the human element from as many decisions as possible.
  It would be tricky, unethical, and in some cases illegal to get people to do the sort of things the owner class and fascists want to do to society. But it's easy to let an AI program go nuts. The cruelty is the point in the case of the fascists. And in the case of the owner class it clears out anyone who couldn't afford a lawyer.
- Why develop and create something in a vacuum when you can beta test it on everyone.
- AI is a great tool. But tools need to still be handled by humans. AI should compile a list of sites "infringing" and this list should be checked by a human. There always should be a human filter with all AI uses. Cool, let your stuff be written by AI but check what is written and fix weird or wrong shit. Have the meat be done by AI and the details by humans.
  
  If a copyright bot makes false DMCA notices, the programmers should be held responsible as if they sent out the notices. That's how we'd handle it for any other crime.
- It's really just the DMCA.
  This kind of faultless takedown shouldn't be legal, but the DMCA carved it out decades ago.
- yes, maybe AI winter was a good thing

I hope this teaches them the valuable lesson of always having domains with more than one registrar.
Or, hopefully, we migrate to a system more advanced than DNS registrars where your "name" can be taken down by an unrelated third party. The current system sucks and the fact that even the Fediverse relies on it (accounts are tied to domains, making full account migration impossible) makes even the remains of my pre-graduate CS student brain rumble.
- The current DNS implementation works well but there should maybe be some ICANN rules that restrict regristars more.
  I can't really think of a way to make it better without making it less secure.
- what do you mean
  
  Maybe he’s talking about some sort of peer to peer thing

This is the future of Feudalism

Back up at least

Most appropriately named domain registrar ever? They should have just gone ahead and named it iwantmynamebackgoddammit.

I wish to avoid any and all companies which do not have actual customer service, but I don't know if this is possible without spending a lot of extra money.
- unfortunately we've entered an era where not wanting to condone/support/endorse/encourage shitty corporate behavior requires the sacrifice of not getting to enjoy most products and conveniences that are available. theyre often enjoyed by many other folks who just shrug and say "everyone else is doing it"
  I find most companies that undercut their competitors' prices are cutting corners somewhere I don't want to be involved in. quality and customer service has a price. I try as hard as I can to pay that price, or just do without.
  just try your best, pick your battles; it's all anyone can do without going insane and/or full modernity-hermit
  (reminds me of the cattle "rancher" in 'king corn' who says theyd love to go back to selling grass fed, grass finished beef, but all anyone wants to buy is cheapass, corn sileage-stuffed feed lot crap, so it's either sell that, or go out of business. producers cant just choose their market; there has to be a demand for it.)
  
  it's not because i think it's a protest. im not that stupid. i simply hate getting stuck in situations with goddann robots