Germany may introduce conscription for all 18-year-olds
Germany may introduce conscription for all 18-year-olds
www.telegraph.co.uk
Germany may introduce conscription for all 18-year-olds
123 comments
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Preparing for world war?
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It isn't just about the military. I've not read the article, but Germany suffers from not having enough people working in social services. This problem got worse after getting rid of conscription. You could either choose military service or social work.
By reintroducing it, they hope to fill in some gaps.
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"What should we do to get more people working in the health sector?"
"Better pay and more manageable shifts!"
"Roll back privatization to shift the focus to sustainability over profits!"
"I'd just enslave the youth again."
[Employee 1& 2 get defenestrated for a change]
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Yeah, instead of actually fixing the system and paying people normal wages, while also fixing the stupid education/certification system that social service workers need to go through, let's just throw a bunch of teenagers at it, it will surely fix our problems!
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You could either choose military service or social work.
Also some hospital work. Bedpan cleaning, etc.
But it kept you out of the army, and took the strain off of hospitals and social services.
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U.S.A. should adopt this policy. It would humble out the nepo children of wealthy pieces of shit, and likely resolve the social issues that people complain about.
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Sometimes open war comes upon you, whether you risk it or not.
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From where? France in the west border? Switzerland in the south? Germany has the safest borders, just keep the balkan in check and you could be at peace for a thousands year. Dismantling the army would be wiser for public spending, but yet again money from weaponry is so addictive, not enough wars for exports? We'll make it happens, the industry needs constant production and the blood of our youth as sacrifice.
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That is so sad, these kinds of times should already be over in humanity's history. Why doesn't anyone have a solution? Are the war mongering powers just waiting for the new nuclear deterrent? Future AI terminators pls just go straight to Russia/China/USA leadership and let the humans be
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It’s because the leaders aren’t the ones fighting the battles or being targeted. They’re playing chess somewhere far from the violence.
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FWIW and AFAIK, the PRC doesn't have conscription (while the ROC does).
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There's also conscription in places which don't attack others, because of an attack threat from a neighbor. I just hope that whatever helps humanity forward, goes to the root cause. Imperialist state oligarchs are a good start. And other billionaires
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This is an unserious proposal. Germany spends about 1.5 percent of its GDP(*) on defence, much of it wasted, and increasing it to even 2 percent has involved painful and extended political wrangling. If the country collectively cannot find the will to tweak its budget to fund a modest increase in defence spending, it is not going to countenance universal conscription.
(*) GDP, not budget; error pointed out by Enkrod
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This is PATENTLY wrong. It's 1.49% of GDP, not budget.
Defense budget is 10.9% of the governments budget, it's the second largest budgeted item after social wellfare and in front of infrastructure (which is crumbling) and debt. To increase it to 2% of gross domestic product means spending an additional amount equal to the entire budget for education and research.
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Oh wow, this is the first time I see this difference mentioned. NATO really expects that much military spending?
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Apologies for the mistake.
But the point remains: 2% of GDP is the NATO target, getting even to that point for Germany has been like pulling teeth, and a serious implementation of universal conscription would be a much bigger ask.
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Dead children don't need education, problem solved!
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It's a serious proposal, but not as a universal conscription. It's intended to only call everyone in for the health check and use that as a way to get young people interested in the army.
There are different models floating around, the most serious being that everyone (including women) gets called in and you basically choose between civil service and army. The civilian side can ramp up slots rather quickly, the army doesn't. So the army probably will ramp up over several years.
Also, I wouldn't call 100 billion € a "modest increase".
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To be honest, getting a majority to agree that the youth should do what most other generations did seems easier than taking money out of other budgets. Even before Russias attack there had been calls to make every young person do a year or Service for society. The plan was more socially beneficial back then but the sentiment of just ignoring what the younger generation wants isn't new
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The draft has never been abolished in germany, it has only officially been 'suspended'. Resuming it would be easy.
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Except that you need to actually house, feed, clothe and train those draftees and most western militaries no longer have the capacity to do that at scale.
The fact that it is legally easy does not say anything about how difficult it will be organizationally
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Legally yes it would be easy. Practically we do not have the infrastructure anymore for it.
Heck iirc the state doesn't even have the capability to know who would need to be drafted anymore.
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Ah the Trump lies really got to you
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In the USA I had to sign up for the draft when I came of age, but luckily the draft system hasn't been utilized since 1973.
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Same year that the productivity-pay gap begins. Hmm.
In Germany, the last conscripts were called up in 2011.
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i don;t like conscription into the military but i've always felt some sort of manatory non-military civil or social service or peace corps participation would do a lot for encouraging civic participation in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.
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in exchange for some sort of universal educational system or some form of reimbursement for secondary education.
That's supposed to be the taxes you pay for the rest of you life
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taxes don't allow you to appreciate civic participation....
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In this day and age it feels like a McDonald's worker could ai copilot a drone better than the folks over in Israel, so no I totally disagree with conscription without certain safeguards in place to prevent genocide or other dumbfuckery.
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Well, the main opposition party wants that... Sooo.... Maybe in the future, maybe not....
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I'm buying broomstick stonks right now
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Hey, I’ve seen this one
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Of course you have. The Draft has been active from 1954 to 2010.
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Germany needs to draft soldiers to go to Ukraine as soon as possible and help the Ukrainians, because it is the right thing to do.
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Draft soldiers of Germany are not allowed to operate outside of our own borders and are used to fill the gaps that stem from professional soldiers working abroad. The Bundeswehr and especially the draftees can only be used for peacekeeping, humanitarian aid and defense.
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As much as I would like to see Russia get shitmixed by a proper first world army (not that Ukraine hasn't been doing phenomenally), I think that might actually put putin in a corner.
Ideally we'll just keep giving Ukraine equipment and propagandize how hard they're kicking russian ass and sanction the hell out of Russia until the people and oligarchs lose their appetite for Ukraine.
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How about our military stays between our own borders. Let those that want to go go. But don't force a bunch of our youth to go fight someone else's war.
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Only if you're among the first wave
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I always thought conscription had benefits. Tidy up the youth, teach them teamwork, toughen them up and give them self-reliance, will really help with the obesity problem.
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The best argument for conscription is that, like politics or the police, the psychology predisposed to choosing it is not necessarily the most beneficial to be involved with it.
If you could choose to serve only in natural disaster relief, humanitarian, or aid operations it would make it significantly less conflicting.
Ultimately the requirement to be involved with, and potentially murder, in anti-democratic or anti-humanitarian operations, and acts of aggression, that could have been decided entirely by self-serving corporate or political interests makes conscription a dealbreaker.
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As someone said above:
Draft soldiers of Germany are not allowed to operate outside of our own borders and are used to fill the gaps that stem from professional soldiers working abroad. The Bundeswehr and especially the draftees can only be used for peacekeeping, humanitarian aid and defense.
Which seems fairly reasonable to me
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Starship troopers style. Interesting.
Also with conscripts they don't normally see fighting they are just normally ready. They tend to just be trained reserves.
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Haven't heard a stronger backwards boomer opinion in ages. Gheez...
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Nothing gives people self-reliance like training them to do exactly as they are told, nothing more, nothing less and god forbid they develop a thought of their own on an issue and consider voicing it.
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You don't know how low the bar is.
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Do the army even want a bunch of nerds, theatre kids, goths and bisexual disasters - speaking as someone who was all of those as a teen - in the army? I thought the army liked people who shut up and ran around a field.
"Oh if you don't they put you in jail"
ok how is that good for society?
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It's not good at all for society. It's slavery with the addition of a heightened risk of death, all to serve the whims of guys in suits far from the battlefield.
Previous commenter thinking it's a good thing because it will whip the rabble into shape is delirious. These are peoples sons and daughters that we would be sending off to die in the mud. Shameful.
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I wasn't saying it for the good of the army I was saying it for the good of the people.
The army will get the best out of them that they can. Sounds like they could do with it more than most.
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I don't think there's a large scale obesity problem in Germany.
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123 comments
The title is not entirely correct. They don't plant to "introduce" conscription. Germany had conscription from its formation of the Bundeswehr in 1955 until it was put on hiatus in 2011 because people back then thought that Ivan was no longer a problem. So what they think about is not "introducing" but just reactivate it.
The changes will be that while before 2011, conscription was only for men, it is planned to be for both sexes, and military service will no longer the one preferred service (back then, you had to go through quite some hoops if you did not want to serve in the Bundeswehr and do your time in e.g. social services). This time, the military option is just one of several that can be chosen.
That makes sense and good on them for conscription not caring about gender
At this stage it's all hot air. Nobody has even started talking about how to finance it and the defense minister isn't even 100% sure he will get his requested additional funds for the next cycle. When somebody asked him about the topic he replied that he isn't categorically against it but he would have to finance (and restructure, as the necessary infrastructure for it has been degraded/scrapped) more important topics first.