1y ago

How might perspectives on race change in a hypothetical fully-egalitarian future?

Oh please let it be a fully egalitarian future…

Attached is a perfectly acceptable social media post and two entirely understandable LLM responses to the post and a reimagining of the post.

One relevant data point in terms of how soon we’d conceivably be refactoring language models and updating our own views:

From their research, Sáenz and Poston Jr expect the United States to have progressed to overall white minority demography by 2044.

Of course, a white minority doesn’t necessarily equate a dismantling of a power structure favoring white folks.

It shouldn’t need to be said on the fediverse that racists need not reply - expect most folks will approach this academically as intended.

PS: if you hate this post, please try to be as nice as you can about it - e.g. toss me a polite sentence after you downvote

37 comments

I don't care about AI.
It's not because of posts like this; it's not because of the endless hype cycle. It's not because hundreds of billions are going into it and it's not because everyone's doing it; it's all these things combined with the fact that I don't have a use case for AI in my life. I don't need AI's sanitized, corporatized opinion on anything, and there's nothing a chatbot can do that a human can't do better.
But that's just me. If you and others like it, Cool Beans.
- Full respect, but I have a feeling you (and I)'ll be using AI as part of your daily endeavours in the next 2 years easily.
  
  May I inquire what you think we'll be using it for?
- My mistake. Should’ve found legit sources or explained possible interpretations myself, couldn’t have been too hard.
  Any opinion on the core topic as explained below the horizontal line here?
  Thanks
"I really like hanging out with all my non-disabled friends."
ChatGPT is correct that sometimes the inclusion of excess adjectives describing a majority population could have an implicit exclusionary interpretation that's less than ideal.
Whereas when describing a minority group, calling out the less common features are not necessary going to have that same exclusionary tone.
"I always have a great time with my D&D playing friends."
- I think this is the best answer in response to what ChatGPT is saying.
  Something that some people tend to miss is that context matters, and context definitely includes who is saying something.
Who cares what AI thinks?
Like, what's the point of the screenshot?
I have this one cousin who's a total fuck up and didn't graduate 7the grade, he stopped by to get some meth money and I decided to ask him about the future!
That's what you're doing.
No one cares AI said something dumb, and you caring makes it seem like you actually believe AI is anything more than a chatbot.
- Who cares what AI thinks?
  Like, what’s the point of the screenshot?
  It's an averaged-out view of what "the internet" thinks, with extra massaging to make sure it isn't too offensive. I think the chatbot's take here pretty much encapsulates the general US public opinion.
  
  Why thank you!
  Overall, GPT-4 here was a distraction. Didn’t much get responses to the question posed as a result.
  Thanks again :)
  
  You could have just told us you don't know, we didn't need an example
- I goofed, I was too lazy man.
  We all know that it will be perceived differently to raise up Black people versus trying to do the same for white people. Same as a women’s rights versus a men’s rights group - many cringe at the thought of the latter.
  I believe people here have no problem with the social media post in the screenshot. I also believe it would rub us the wrong way to read a white dude mentioning that he was into a flight attendant if he specified she was white.
  Instead of finding a real person with views on the subject, of which there are many, I took the shortcut of using a tool whose output was just as I counted on. (The responses didn’t strike me as dumb - I called them entirely understandable.) Then I wanted that to be used for quick reference as a starting point for brainstorming about the future.
  May make more sense reading the latter half here so you have something interesting (hopefully!) to think about instead of industrial autocomplete.
Race only exists as a cultural construct. Eventually, like all cultural constructs, it will cease to exist in its current form, regardless of level of equality in future society.
Personally, I hope to dismantle this concept as soon as possible since it’s proven a toxic one in most circumstances.
- Well, I would love if that concept could be retired and forgotten sooner than later. But as things are right now, e.g. CRT is required to get there and CRT requires the concept of race :/
  
  I’m not sure I agree that CRT is required necessarily. Why do you think that?
I don't know how many generations it would take, but in a short time race would cease to be an issue at all when we get to egalitarianism of marriage/children.
We'll all be a nice shade of bronze. Lovely.
You need to be asking this on hexbear instead. I don’t have the books under by belt to do it justice, but plenty of anarchist and communist theory puts forward the idea that race will stop existing as a communist or anarchist society rights historical wrongs and creates a just world.
That isn’t to say that identities, cultures or histories will cease to exist but that the categories created and maintained by the state and reified through its various branches and coexistant power structures for the purposes of exploitation will.
I don’t think there would be perspectives on race, except as a hypothetical- the way I (and I assume others) feel when something like those head shape diagrams that tell you about whether someone’s a criminal (edit: phrenological diagrams)come up: it’s an invented way to keep people in groups, so it won’t stick around once people are no longer separating themselves on that basis.
Given that we don’t live in that society, I see no issue with treating a post from a white man specifying white beauty differently from one from a black man about black beauty. They are different statements. I see it similarly to how a woman saying “it was great to see a woman win a scientific award” is a different statement from a man saying “it was great to see a man win a scientific award.” Black women have been excluded from American ideas of beauty since there was an America in a variety of ways.
- Thanks for overcoming my shortsighted decision to put too great of a spotlight on software when it overshadowed the (sociological? anthropological?) question you adeptly responded to.
  Interesting:
  As obviously pseudoscientific as those foot diagrams (reflexology).
  Is there way more validity/importance to race than phrenology? Some folks seem to love connecting with their culture, their ancestors, and race plays a part - they’ll take pride in all of it.
  I see no issue with treating [posts differently]
  Indeed, we should. But what if we fast forward not to just a time when the oppressor class’s race is a minority, but also there’s no racial connection amongst the oppressor class? So, year 3000, and everyone is perfectly represented amongst Fortune 500 CEOs. Nobody’s disadvantaged, and there’s no great need to raise up any particular group of people.
  1: would a Black man specify the race of a Black flight attendant?
  2: would a white person specify the race of a white flight attendant?
  And would either or both of those be viewed as totally normal observations?
  (this does assume we continue to notice our racial groupings technically exist - if race is no longer a distinction, believe the question’s moot)
  
  Is there way more validity/importance to race than phrenology? Some folks seem to love connecting with their culture, their ancestors, and race plays a part - they’ll take pride in all of it.
  Culture is a good thing to compare it to, because they’re both sociological, rather than biological distinctions. People want to connect with their culture, but I think if race were truly irrelevant, they might base it on different things. I’ve heard my stepsister attribute her loudness to being Jewish, Italian, and a New Yorker- I’d expect more of the latter if no one else had told her that Jews or Italians are loud.
  If there’s not a connection between a behavior and a race (or ethnicity), I don’t know how one could take pride in it. I also don’t really see how the world can be fully egalitarian if they still exist- would someone who believes Italians are inherently louder than, say, Japanese people give mr. Policetti and mr. Yamamoto the same chances when hiring an academic dean or a DJ for a kid’s party? I can’t see how they would.
  Maybe I’m missing something, but if that thought is somewhere in peoples heads, I think it’s got to have an effect.
In a truly egalitarian future nobody will really care. We might notice but we won't really give a shit at all. We were almost there about 12 years ago, then shit went sideways and now people don't shut the fuck up about race.
- ? 12 years ago my ex was getting radicalized on the internet, reading Stormfront and other similar sites. I really do not think all was nearly OK then.
  
  I said shit went sideways around 12 years ago didn't i?
I would prefer a future where criminals were eliminated. I don't care what race they are.
- Did you intend this to be relevant?

37 comments