Scientists have figured out way to make algae-based plastic that completely decomposes
Scientists have figured out way to make algae-based plastic that completely decomposes
i am sure it will be "too expensive" for the next 30 to 40 years.
Much more likely that no company wants to use it no matter how much it costs because it degrades. We use plastic as a packing material specifically because it doesn't degrade and lasts forever.
On the other hand, many of the things packaged in plastic also degrade, and might be fine for their safe shelf life in either biodegradable plastic or a container with that type of lining. Other liquids could be packaged in glass.
Yeah, people forget that form follows function.
The parameters for making a USEFUL plastic that ALSO degrades gives a narrow band. Too degradable, and the function of fulfilling all the areas plastic is currently used for can't happen. Not degradable, and we have the current situation.
Plastic being is in use not simply to fuck the planet over or something, but because compared to other materials it has physical qualities that things like glass, wood, fabric, etc. don't have, that's why it's ended up in so many things. It's lightweight, strong, and "plastic" (that is to say, more easily shaped and molded than other materials, and I suspect there's a labor component too where maybe it needs less labor to shape and form).
I'm eventually going to write a story about a sci-fi world that's under quarantine because they successfully made a plastic-eating bacteria that never stops eating and breaking down plastic. Go there and most of your technology/clothes/etc. are eaten away. I might throw in wood, too...a world with no wood or plastic because the local bacteria is like, "Yum, yum, food!" and gets into every nook and cranny. I anticipate I'll have to do a lot of thinking to figure out how drastically technology would change under these parameters...I imagine a lot of it would be very "brutalist" because you'd have to rely on heavy-as-balls metals and cement and stone and such. Unless there's an Aluminum Future or something, where everything that can be made out of aluminum, can. Of course, there's also the byproducts of intense metals mining to think about on a fictional world like that. Anyway, lots of details to pick apart for worldbuilding.
Especially for packing would be good if it degrades after a determined time. That and bottles.
Yes, depends on what's the behavior of just sitting around outside, getting rained on a bit, sitting in a humid warehouse, exposed to bugs and rodents.
If hypothetically it only breaks down if shredded and mixed into compost, then it may be interesting. However in such a case you'd likely struggle to reliably identify and segregate it from the rest of the plastic waste stream to apply this special treatment without putting bad plastic into the mix.
Same people, they've been making biodegradable footwear for a bit now.
Why bother with that? If you need shoes to dissolve, regardless of the materials, just subject them to my foot sweat for a few months.
Until get externalities of plastic on to the up front cost. We kind of did it on plastic bags in the UK.
We have a lot of options for materials that completely decompose. The challenge is materials that only decompose when you want them to, and not while theyre sitting on store shelves
That doesn't sound like a problem but a feature. We love new shiny things and wasting things.
I think if we find materials that breakdown in a useful way, it creates an incentive to make use of those products that have a shelf life. But more importantly creating a waste product that is beneficial.
I didn't know if the material science is there yet. But we need to figure out the best way to use these new materials to change industries.
If we can make something profitable, other people will do the hard part of adopting it and getting it out there.
My work produces sooo much waste. More than all of the staff combined will ever produce. And thats just my branch. We have hundreds of branches and being where we are in canada, we put some of the most amount of effort into recycling. Because its law, not because the company is willing to sacrifice profit by spending resources on anything that doesnt produce value in dollars.
We are small fry, and we arent in a monopoly
I wonder why we shifted away from things like waxed paper milk cartons(like the small ones you'd get in school) and waxed butcher paper?
Is waxed paper/cardboard product really that much more expensive than plastic in terms of packaging?
Here in Germany, all milk is still distributed in cardboard packages
Because wax production has numerous negative impacts on the environment: higher energy costs (which lead to higher product costs), deforestation (in case of soy or palm based wax), impact on bee population (in case of bee wax), etc.
Plastics are just better materials for pretty much everything.
It's not really a problem of lack of know-how, not even a problem of mass production (some industries made the transition for various reasons). It's a problem of a monopoly with dirty lobbies & gov subsidies.
Ah crap. 😩
There are already compostable alternatives to plastic bags being sold in stores like Target. I heard one of the issues is that people/companies refuse to pay more for them.
Sounds like something laws should fix
Exactly.. We need heavy focus on packaging.. plastic bags are barely a problem. I don't care if my food packaging is flashy.. I shouldn't be in the hook if this stuff doesn't decompose naturally. Meat is the most agriegious example why do we use heavy styrene?
Every tiny change they try gets met with huge backlash, people still rage about plastic straws. It's got to be a cultural change too.
Some of those "compostable" bags actually decompose into microplastics, so unfortunately they're not always better
Do you have a citation for that? That sounds like disinformation. Compostable bags are made from plants not plastic. https://www.makeitmatter.com/faq
I have a lot to say when reading a headline like this, but it boils down to: I really hope advances like this and EV's topple the fossil fuel industry that's hurting our planet.
I agree, although, the pessimist in me says the Oil companies will find a way to kill it somehow.
Probably by buying and then sitting on the patents
"if oil didn't exist, we'd have to invent it"
Again?
I kid of course. The durable bioplastics from the 50s were made from plant cellulose.
They still are.
But they used to be too.
This is exciting news. Repubs pretend climate change is a myth because the oil industry has them in pocket. The smarter take would be to cheer for all the economic incentives to build new markets that are sustainable.
In this case, the potential doesn't relate to climate change, but to pollution. It might make carbon a teensy bit worse, but probably not enough to matter (and growing the algae would presumably more than offset that tiny bit).
Oh, nice... techno-solution No. 456927493923990003038. You know... the same ole' techno-solutions they've been promising us will solve all the capitalism-instigated problems (ie, problems that aren't technological in nature) since at least the 80s?
I'll just go ahead and file this with the rest.
since at least the 80s
People have been reliant on "ole’ techno-solutions" since the dawn of humanity 2 million years ago on the African savannah, long before capitalism was even a thing. Just sayin'.
I think in this case it's a matter of definition what constitutes a "techno-solution", specifically the "techno" part. Just saying.
People have been reliant on “ole’ techno-solutions” since the dawn of humanity
Soooo.... according to you people have been relying on "techno-solutions" to fix the problems caused by capitalism long before capitalism was even invented.
Yeah... that makes total sense.
Damn right, many techno-solutions already exist and have for a while but don't get used, usually due to bribery by the purveyors of the problem.
No, usually because of the same reason most of these innovations don't work. They don't scale for one of 1000 reasons.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
No one said its a magic wand, it's one of many things that could potrntislly help reduce the damage we do to the ecosystem.
Yes capitalism bad but there's eight billion people on the planet so a communist system would also need modern materials to allow everyone to live a good life.
No one said its a magic wand,
Of course they don't say it's a "magic wand..." even the media doesn't think you're that stupid.
it’s one of many things that could potrntislly help reduce the damage we do to the ecosystem.
So when do they start? As I've already implied - they've been enthusiastically peddling "techno-fixes" to these problems since at least the 80s (I know because I was there), and they haven't made much of a dent, have they? Does it perhaps have something to do with the fact that the problems caused by capitalism isn't technological, perhaps?
so a communist system would also need modern materials to allow
If the problems aren't technological it means modern materials isn't the problem, is it?
Life is better due to millions of technological developments, no one said that this or anybtech will solve all the problems associated with keeping 8 billion people alive and happy but it's likely to have some important use cases which will combine with
Oil company says "no"
Is it price-competitive with the oil-plastic? What usecases?
I want to be optimistic, but...
However, cost is currently a prohibitive issue to widespread use, the researchers said. While petroleum is readily available to siphon from the ground, widespread infrastructure for algae farming will be needed for plastics made of the bio-based polymer to become used en masse, Burkart said.
However, the process the researchers devised can also be applied to other plant-based material, Burkart said.
The researchers hope their new process can eventually be implemented widely for food packaging, Pomeroy said.
"But if you're going to ask me, 'Could we do this with anything?' I'm pretty sure we could do this with most anything," he said.
Sounds like an economy of scales problem, and the scale isn't there. Fixable, but not great.
No he said that in the video. It's a moot point. We are looking at doing something new. Will it be price competitive once it matures? Thats what we need to be asking.
Because if yes, immediately shift ALL subsidies from petroleum to whatever CAN effectively replace oil-plastic.
Whatever we do, it has to actually be effective regardless of cost. Cost come down as economies of scale sort themselves out.
Plastic is killing us anyway, what cost matters if we are all dead?
This is a problem NOW. Paying for it is a problem LATER.
Yes and they can make paper from kudzu. So - wrapped in paper then bioplastic and voilá. No more eternal waste.
Nobody ever thinks about the oli barons /s
great wasnt the whole benefit of plastik that it doesent decompose tho?
Depends on the use case.
Reading the article, it doesn't seem like it just disintegraties after 7 months, this material has to be under compositing conditions with a specific microbe due 7 months.
There are applications where this would probably be an unacceptable possibility, but I'd imagine the vast majority of single use plastics would be fine with this. Packaging may spend months or even years doing it's job, but it won't be under compost conditions during that time.
Not really. The reason plastic exploded in use is because it's cheap, durable, lightweight, and really versatile.
Look around you and consider what it would take to manufacture some plastic objects in another material.
Disposable things like packaging would be perfect to decompose after their lifetime is over.
I do wish there was a sign whether this would be realistically cheap or not. That is the key as to whether it could be single use plastics.
In terms of the process, it looks like for now it needs to land in a compost heap with a specific microbe. I am concerned about the practical chance of this particular plastic finding it's way to the special compost heap without getting mixed in with other plastics.
my prior statement was a bit obtuse you are correct
That was the selling point before we got into mass production of disposable plastic everything.