House Passes Bill That Defines Criticism of Israel as “Antisemitism”

Guess I'm an antisemitic jew, then. Obviously that makes no fucking sense, but here we are.

Nah, it makes perfect sense! If we don't support Israel, then we're not "real" Jews. Or is it that we're supposed to be self-hating? Either way, I know I always look forward to (usually some flavor of Christian) politicians telling me how to be a Jew.
- Is it a requirement to be Jewish, in order to have Israeli citizenship?
"Well lookee here fellas, we got us one of them self-hatin jews!"
-Some movie or something I think? Possibly a TV show or stand-up routine...
- I do often hate myself, but it has nothing to do with the judaism.
- Sounds like an Inglorious Basterds line but I cant recall either
- South Park, hands down.
Pretty sure their media apparatus can "lawfully" show stock images with people photoshopped to be saluting Hitler on any news about student protests against being complicit in Israel's genocide now.

US really loves to be Israel's bitch it seems.

It's the other way around. The U.S. is shielding its proxy from criticism here, not bowing to its master.
- No, it's protecting the cash flow of the master that is paying their bills.

I am so sick of fascism. Will there ever be a time in our lifetimes that it won't be as thick?

Yes. Pick up arms. Keep marching on. The left has a really strong base that the media doesn't like to show. Don't give up hope.
Nope. It's not going away unless things get a lot worse for a hot minute first.

Definitely and absolutely not 1984

Referencing that treasonous book is double ungood.
Well, its not. Something bad doesn't have to be like 1984 to be bad.
Do yall ever get tired of regurgitating this tired trope?
- No, but I'm tired
- Funnily enough this exact case is a valid and accurate use of 1984.

So can we criticize Saudi Arabia or is that considered Islamophobia?

well that's fucked up

This whole article criticized wording but never gave the words. Did I just miss it? I'm so confused. When I read about this yesterday, I thought the definition specifically separated anti Jewish people and anti Israel. Now I can't find that.

I believe this is the definition they're discussing...

IHRA's non-legally binding working definition of antisemitism:

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

(2) includes the “[c]ontemporary examples of antisemitism” identified in the IHRA definition.
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:
Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
All of these examples are part of the definition. So under this law, saying that Israel is an apartheid state or saying Israel is committing a genocide would be against the law.
ACLU gives a few more examples of how fucked up this is if you are interested in reading.
- I don't believe it would be, actually? Both of your examples do not resemble any of the listed sub-items. Holding all Jewish people responsible for those items would be antisemitic, but they do also explicitly mention that any criticism that could be leveled at another state is valid. Comparing them to the Nazis is a no go, but it sounds as if you can accuse the state of Israel of apartheid or genocide and that is still not antisemitism under this bill.
  To be clear, I am opposed to this law and believe it will have a chilling effect on speech. I just don't think your examples above would be in violation.
The big one is right here:
"Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor."
This is a slight of hand where they conflate judaism and Israel. The definition starts out as explicitely about Judaism and move towards being explicitly about Israel.
Here is a link where I go into more detail: https://lemmy.world/comment/9797297
- But saying something like “Denying the Muslim people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a sovereign Palestine is a racist endeavor" would get nothing but dropped jaws and racist bleating.

@BrikoX The constitution doesn't give congress authority over words.

It gives them authority over laws. And laws are made of what? Sand, water and sunshine?
- @BrikoX I see your point here.
  And I see their point. If there are laws referencing antisemitism, the scope of those laws would be expanded w/o rewriting them.
  So if employers are legally required to prevent racist speech in a workplace, and antisemitism is included in racism (which it should be), then if we talk politics at lunch and someone criticizes Israel, HR would be required to treat that as inappropriate speech for the workplace if they heard about it.
  Assuming that the bill passed and was held up by courts.
  Does this sort of thing actually happen? I mean, where a law redefines an English word (that's not specifically a legal term), affecting the scope of other laws?
  Usually in practice "clarifying" laws are written more like "for purposes of X, Y means Z", not just directly "Y = Z", as though they owned the dictionary (and as though languages were defined by dictionaries).
  Courts definitely have that power. The supreme court has declared that tomatoes are vegetables, for example.
Yeah I can't see how this holds up.

Am I gonna be labeled Christophobe if I criticize Armenia then? Not that that country has anything worth criticizing, but still, it kinda feels dumb.

And yes, I chose Armenia specifically because it's the first country to adopt Christianity as its state religion.

Does this change anything? Hate speech is protected by the First Amendment.

The First Amendment only protects opinions, hence the defamation lawsuits being a thing. This law makes facts a violation of the law.
- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
  Truth is widely accepted as a complete defense to all defamation claims.
  The way you win a defamation lawsuit is by proving what you're claiming is factually correct. I'm gonna need some sort of case law citation showing that what you're claiming was ever an established interpretation.

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What it primarily does is tell the Department of Education that when it enforces federal anti-discrimination laws, it must use the definition of antisemitism put forward by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA). DoE enforcement actions of this sort are somewhat uncommon, and take a long time to play out. So, it's really tough to see great relevance

This is about sending a message and creating legal framework for fucking over dissent.
- Like I said, the law is seldom used, but those that see monsters in the closet always will.