Has ethernet become illegitimate? A librarian flipped out after spotting me using ethernet

The reality despite what you or i might do, is that 99% of people don't carry around an ethernet or hardwire in when there is available wifi.
The library might be public, but it's still a good idea to communicate your intent or obtain permission prior to using someone else's network in away they might deem to be unexpected.
"Do you have ethernet or wired internet?" is actually a common library question and the response from whoever works the front desk will likely tell you everything you need to know.
- Or, and hear me out, approach everything with hostility \s
  
  I have been trying this for a while. You end up alone a lot.
  
  Tbf, that does get you more upvotes
- “Do you have ethernet or wired internet?” is actually a common library question and the response from whoever works the front desk will likely tell you everything you need to know.
  Would you trust the reply somebody like the librarian in the OP gave you? Seems like the sort of person who would refuse to admit to any lack of knowledge and just bluster.
  
  Do you trust every one-sided story to be entirely accurate of all details?
  And what does trust have to do with it? Can we use Ethernet here? If the person says no, would you just walk around the building until you found a port and plugged in?
  
  As far as people I’d trust to not just make shit up, I’d say Librarian, aka, professional fucking researcher is high on the list.
  
  Would you trust the reply somebody like the librarian in the OP gave you?
  I mean, if the answer is “no” would you just go around plugging into random Ethernet ports until you found one that works? Just because you don’t “trust” the librarian who gave you the answer? That sounds like a fast track to getting trespassed (or at least banned from using their public internet altogether) for abuse of services.
  The library isn’t required to provide free Ethernet. They aren’t even required to provide free wifi. But they choose to do so because they recognize that wifi is a big reason people will come to a library to spend time. Which is sort of the whole point of the library. So providing free wifi goes hand-in-hand with the library’s ultimate mission.
  But that wifi is provided on an as-is basis, because they can’t guarantee things like 100% uptime, good speeds, or any kind of troubleshooting. And any potential ethernet connection would also be as-is. And in this case, “as-is” could easily translate to “not available to the public at all.” Because again, the library isn’t required to provide any of it.
  
  It's kind of all that matters though. We don't need to trust her - we need her acceptance of the act for which she is the gatekeeper of. If we don't have it - trust over what she said is irrelevant since we don't even have the basic trust over the act.
  
  Yes, because it seems in this instance the answer to the question is "no, please don't plug into the ports you find."
  If it's a supported thing, the librarian may have been less blustery.
- When I entered I spoke to a different librarian about the locked PC room (due to a holiday or something). They said I could use wifi but need to give a phone number to a captive portal, which I already knew. My phone was not on me so I said: is it okay if I plug in over there by the catalog PCs? They said yes. Revealing what I mean by "plugging in”, well, i was vague for a reason. I know the population has become ethernet-hostile¹ so indeed asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission in this situation.
  ¹ Another library in the area has ethernet ports but they are just decoys (dead ports). I asked the librarian what the problem is, why they are disabled, and whether we can turn them on. Librarian was helpless, and said “use wifi”, which didn’t work for me for different reasons than the other library. But the librarian basically said in so many words “not our problem.. you can just use wifi.” At another library, I was able to connect but Tor was blocked. I tried to get support from the librarian. They had no clue but were also unwilling to lead me to someone who could give support. The way it works around here is the info systems are outsourced to some unreachable tech giant, and the librarians are rendered helpless. If the SSID does not appear, the librarian can send an email to someone to say it’s down, and that’s about the full extent of their tech capability.
  
  Another library in the area has ethernet ports but they are just decoys (dead ports). I asked the librarian what the problem is, why they are disabled, and whether we can turn them on.
  They’re not decoys, they’re just not patched. Because we don’t generally patch anything that’s not going to be in use. Also because some rando will probably attempt to plug their nasty ass laptop into it, which is also why we block port intrusions.
  
  Why didn't you tell this librarian that you'd asked another librarian and they said it was okay to plug in? Why was none of this included in the original post?
  
  I wouldn't want you on my network either to be fair. People like you should be kept in an isolated area of the network with a proxy pointing all your traffic to resolve Italkaloadofshit.com
  Jumped up little twat.

Does the library provide ethernet jacks for patrons to use? If not then I can understand why a librarian would be surprised.
- yeah OP needs to provide this detail specifically as it changes everything.
  If the Ethernet jack was not on a desk, then it wasn't there for them to use. If they unplugged a cable to make it accessible, that is unfortunately enough to be considered tampering.
  If an Ethernet jack was not expressly provided, unoccupied, at the technology access station then yes the access to Ethernet information facilities was unauthorized and illegitimate and could carry legal ramifications. Say what you want about proprietary wifi drivers, you get the access you are given and any attempts to gain further access without authorization are defined as intrusion attempts and will more likely than not be treated as such to some degree. Because honestly, the libraries aren't funded enough to have great security and Ethernet security is harder than WiFi security in practice, despite the challenges being characterized by the same principles.
- Yeah, any half decent city IT department will at least be using port filtering for their switches anyways. Unless a port is specifically set up to provide open access to the internet, all OP would be able to do is bonk against the city IT’s MAC address filter until the port was disabled for having an unrecognized device/suspicious activity.
  In my building, (and pretty much any city building I’ve ever worked in,) only specific ports were set up to provide open internet access. And usually those ports are in places that need to be unlocked, and which OP wouldn’t have ready access to without a fun little bit of breaking and entering. Because those ports aren’t intended for the general public to use; They’re meant for presenters, speakers, clients who have rented a room for the day, etc… The general public is meant to use the free wifi. Because there’s a different level of service expected if you’re renting a room, vs simply camping out all day in the quiet study area.
  When OP tries to bypass that by plugging straight in, the switch will just go “lol git fukd loser” and disable the port. Of fucking course they weren’t able to access anything, because the port isn’t there for OP; It’s for the IT department to be able to use whenever they need to set up a new computer, or book checkout station, or simply to plug their city-owned laptop in to be able to use the city network.

I plugged into ethernet (as wifi w/captive portal does not work for me). I think clearnet worked but I have no interest in that. Egress Tor traffic was blocked and so was VPN. I’m not interested in editing all my scripts and configs to use clearnet, so the library’s internet is useless to me (unless I bother to try a tor bridge).
Yeah... Trying to bypass their security by using ethernet instead of Wi-Fi to use your own stuff that's being blocked is tantamount to abusing the library's services. Someone should let the IT staff know so they can properly block those services on ethernet as well.
- They should just be disabling the ports, frankly. The overwhelming majority of visitors will never miss them. If you need to use a computer on an Ethernet connection because you can't/won't use the Wi-Fi, most libraries provide desktop stations for you to use.
  Keep some Wi-Fi USB dongles in the drawer at the front desk for people whose Wi-Fi isn't working, or the extreme edge case where somebody has some sort of device that can only use an ethernet connection, and for some reason they brought it to the library.
  
  Yeah, I agree that's the easiest path to take in properly securing it.
- To be fair. That's your ethernet jack and your security that you're abusing.
- Someone should let the IT staff know so they can properly block those services on ethernet as well.
  Someone should let the IT staff know that wi-fi does not work for everyone, including:
  People running a free software platform that lacks support for a wifi NIC that needs a proprietary driver and firmware
  People running free software who ethically object to running the proprietary non-free driver and firmware their wifi NIC requires
  People without a mobile phone to perform the captive portal-mandated SMS verfication
  People with a mobile phone but who want to exercise their GDPR right to data minimization
  Climate activists who prefer not to spend 30 times more energy needed for wi-fi radios
  People who want the security of other wi-fi users not eavesdropping on their traffic by simply pointing a yagi antenna from a block away (on a network that blocks the VPNs that would protect them from that on wi-fi)
  (edit)
  People who cannot get past the captive portal for other reasons, such as the captive portal imposing TLS 1.3 on older software (forced obsolescence), or anything else that fails technically, like DNS breakage preventing the captive portal’s hostname from resolving.
  And because simply turning on Wi-Fi in public enables all iPhones in your range to automatically snoop, collect your wi-fi params including SSIDs your device looks for before sending it to Apple, along with GPS fix and timestamp (according to research), there are people who:
  for privacy reasons object to being snooped on generally in this way
  boycott Apple already for any number of reasons, and who have enough discipline and resolve to oppose feeding profitable data to Apple -- regardless of whether they actually care about the disclosure.
  boycott the fossil fuel industry, including Google who supplies AI to Totaal Oil to find drilling locations, and thus oppose feeding Google by way of Androids in range doing the same collection as Apple. (note it’s disputed whether Google actually mirrors Apple on this to the extent of Apple)
  
  Someone should let the IT staff know that wi-fi does not work for everyone, including:
  HI there. I'm someone in IT for a Public Library so let me review these points.
  People running a free software platform that lacks support for a wifi NIC that needs a proprietary driver and firmware
  That's a you and your hardware problem, not a public library IT problem. You need to purchase hardware that is adequately supported by your chosen Operating System.
  People running free software who ethically object to running the proprietary non-free driver and firmware their wifi NIC requires
  This is a you and your hardware problem. Buy hardware that is adequately supported by your chosen Operating System.
  People without a mobile phone to perform the captive portal-mandated SMS verfication
  This one is a semi-serious complaint however I've never seen a portal system where the Librarian's didn't have the ability to issue a day pass for use. Aside from that you sound like someone who should be technically able to stand up an ephemeral phone number for the purpose of receiving SMS.
  People with a mobile phone but who want to exercise their GDPR right to data minimization
  Same as above.
  Pro-environment people who prefer not to spend 30 times more energy needed for wi-fi radios
  What an absolutely petty complaint.
  People who want the security of other wi-fi users not eavesdropping on their traffic by simply pointing a yagi antenna from a block away.
  I'd bet that as soon as you enter a code your VPN stops being blocked. They're not trying to block VPN they are preventing you from sidestepping their ToS.
  I've dealt with Patrons like you before and the instant someone starts yammering at me about ClearNet / Tor I know exactly what kind of person I'm dealing with.
  You selected your path for whatever reasons you chose and the inconveniences that come with that path are yours to deal with. Suck it up buttercup, you weren't promised that a privacy respecting internet lifestyle would be easy or convenient.
  BTW if you'd plugged your laptop into one of my systems you'd have gotten vlan'd into the same Captive Portal System that the WiFi has which is precisely how any publicly available Ethernet port should function. Your little length of wires coated in vinyl with plastic shoved on the ends still wouldn't have gotten you where you wanted to go.
  
  You're welcome to use the library PCs (if available) or get your own ISP connection.
  
  Yeah, this argument is bullshit once you actually know what you're talking about instead of following some cult videos that teach you to repeat them.

Well, you were trying to bypass one of their security measures. They require SMS verification so that they can track you in case you break their rules. Presumably this is why they also block other means of anonymizing yourself.
- Well, you were trying to bypass one of their security measures.
  I was not carrying my phone. Thus bypassing the reckless policy of a tax-funded public resource to exclusively serve people who entered the private marketplace to obtain mobile phone service, in violation of article 21¶2 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
  “Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.”
  
  So the protected class they are discriminating against here is "doesn't want to use wifi"?
  You had the means to access the Internet, you chose not to use them.
  
  Why are you even in the library to begin with if you're so opposed to how they manage their network?
  If you want to complain, complain. Write to the city, start a petition, whatever.
  But regardless of how it's supposed to work legally, the day that you were in the library, there was a network security setting that was blocking you. You sought to get around that, and you're not going to get any sympathy for trying to do so.
  Just because it's a public resource doesn't mean you can break in after hours, and just because you don't have a phone doesn't give you permission to sidestep their security policies.
  
  Everyone has access, phone or not, just not when the PC room sometimes is closed due reasons.
  You don't have 24/7 access rights as far as I'm aware.
  
  Please cite the definition of public service that includes all the things you've described; access to the internet via Ethernet on a personal machine running the various software you mentioned.
  Quote the passage that outlines those details.
  Why not take it a step further? I can't get to the library so they're denying me my human rights by not running cables right to my house so I can access it without that restriction.

Good luck with that here. No port you can access will give you a IP If its hot at all. We don't allow patron machines to use Ethernet since it bypasses the QOS setting for the public WiFi. We also don't have any requirements to connect to our WiFi.
The reason for not allowing this is simple. We had several people come in and abuse usage of wired connections. Specifically people with consoles that thought it was okay to come in and kill our Patron vlan to download that fifty gig update for their console.
- Meh. So my point of view is that qos for Internet is better done at layer 3. Layer 2 qos has its place, but layer 3 is going to let you prioritise services better.
  Moreso, if you do it at layer 3 you don't need to worry about people using ethernet. Every person using ethernet is one less using the extremely finite resources WiFi has. Every active station puts a load on WiFi, less so with the latest versions but they still exhibit a lot of the same problems that mean many workstations can kill WiFi performance.
  If you setup your network right (you can actually, although I've not seen it too often, setup guests networks on ethernet before WiFi, such that stations cannot see eachother directly) there's no reason at all to fear ethernet.
  
  Its gonna change soon anyway since we are getting new service with four times the bandwidth. For the first time I will be able to get netflow data since our current train wreck ISP(Windstream) wouldn't give me so much as a read only snmp string on their managed routers. I will have all kinds of options after I replace them with something I can manage. They have this product called weconnect that give you all kinds of information only its hours out of date and sometimes not sequentially timestamped.
  
  If you setup your network right (you can actually, although I've not seen it too often, setup guests networks on ethernet before WiFi, such that stations cannot see eachother directly) there's no reason at all to fear ethernet.
  Sure but this isn't a corporate office with an IT team on call, this is a public library. They could hire someone who will go the extra mile to manage all of this and set the security up correctly, but they're not likely to get that person or keep them around. Their patrons are not going to be so opposed to wifi that expending all this effort to keep the ethernet ports active will be worth that effort. Maybe in a college library, or a public library in a city center, but not your run of mill local branches.
  As for finite wifi resources, I seriously doubt most public libraries would be so frequently at capacity that this becomes an issue, especially when many of them only allow clients for a couple hours at a time without renewing. They just need to scale up for their needs.
- I apply QoS at the edge so wired or wireless doesn't matter to us for performance but either one is still going to our Captive Portal and forcing you to agree to our ToS.
  Fun Fact: I started applying QoS at the edge because of the people dragging their laptops in so they could Torrent. They'd blow out our bandwidth for everyone else and we were racking up DMCA warnings from our ISP.
  
  At the moment I have no control of the edge router. Its managed by windstream. The qos on the wireless is just on the guest wifi. Like I said soon I will have my own routers and then I can start to control traffic.

My first reaction is yeah, you don't just plug into random Ethernet.
The wi-fi is likely a visitor network setup for guests to the library. That ethernet port could provide access to their private intranet, and be a security risk to the library. Worst case scenario, it could result in malware, ransomware, and/or millions of dollars in expenses to recover (on a library budget, that could mean permanently shutting down the library even).
After reading your post, I would say, no harm intended, just don't do it again.
After reading your comments about intentionally being vague about 'plugging in' to lead the librarian to think you were asking to plug in a power cord, and not specifically meaning ethernet connection.... yeah, you're clearly in the wrong. Just be up front; if they say no, so be it. They may be able to direct you to a visitor ethernet plug-in, or maybe not. If this were an AITA thread, i'd say yes, YTA in this case.
Asking in an security community.... I would assume some level of technical awareness, and you are likely well aware of network segmentation, and that no IT department would be happy about a guest plugging their laptop into random rj-45 jacks around the building. Maybe it's not well designed, and that actually has access to firewall administration?
- After reading your post, I would say, no harm intended, just don’t do it again.
  You may be misunderstanding the thesis. This is not really about staying out of trouble. Or more precisely, as an activist up to my neck in trouble it’s about getting into the right trouble. The thesis is about this trend of marginalising people with either no phone and/or shitty wifi gear/software and a dozen or so demographics of people therein who do not so easily give up their rights. It’s about exclusivity of public services funded with public money. Civil disobedience is an important tool for justice outside of courts.
  The security matter is really about competency and cost. The main problem is likely in the requirements specification conveyed to the large tech firms that received the contract. From where I sit, it appears they were simply told “give people wifi”, probably by people who don’t know the difference between wifi and internet. In which case the tech supplier should have been diligent and competent enough to ask “do you want us to exclude segments of the public who have no wifi gear and those without phones?”

Most folks will probably freak out when they see a terminal window ("DOS box") on a computer.
Most folks in my country have no idea that there is something else than WhatsApp as alternative to SMS.
Whenever I've tried explaining to people that stuff on their website violates privacy or when I try to explain why they are having email delivery problems almost always results in permanent silence or disbelief.
Technology appears to be a scare factor for a lot of people. But in this case the librarian maybe thought that Ethernet was only for their qualified IT department to use.
- Most folks will probably freak out when they see a terminal window ("DOS box") on a computer.
  Many many moons ago I was working at a small mom and pop operation that used ancient PCs to run their registers. The entirety of the front end ran on a 3.5" floppy. One night after closing, I exited to the CLI and opened edit. I typed in "HELP, STEVE BROKE ME" and went to the back to count my drawer. The shift manager had a proper shit fit.
  "What are you editing?!? If you break this machine the boss is going to have your head, it'll cost thousands to have someone come out and fix it!"
  I calmly exited back to CLI and ran the front end exe. ¯(ツ)/¯

It's their network that they are offering as a service, if they say no then no it is.
- Private libraries are quite rare. I think only one employer I worked for had an on-site private library where the assets are not publicly owned. It’s rare. Most libraries are public.
  My post is about public libraries, which were financed with public money. It’s worth noting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:
  Article 21
  ¶2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
  That includes public libraries. It’s disgusting that you endorse discriminating against people without mobile phones and private subscriptions in the course of accessing public resources.
  
  It’s disgusting that you endorse discriminating against people
  If you're not trolling - poorly - then you obviously have massive issues. I would encourage you to seek out some help for those.
  
  You have the right to access the internet through WiFi like everyone else. So where's the problem?
  
  You can use it but on their terms. Your privacy doesnt mean anything to them, they are protecting themselves. Captive portal is likely making you agree to not abuse the service.
  Also you're choosing not to participate which is fair but they don't need to support that.
  
  Then go sue them over their lack of Your Particular Setup-compatible wifi, I guess.

I can’t rant against librarians. My friend has been a librarian for many years and she has put up with a hell of a lot of crap from people. So be kind, be patient and be honest with them.
Obviously not all librarians, like any job, are perfect.

If it was a publicly available Ethernet port, it was likely for public use. The fact that she thought it was malicious speaks to ignorance on her part, not yours.
- Even ignoring that, if internet via a wired ethernet connection isn't an option they provide for whatever reason... their network infrastructure shouldn't allow the connection anyway. It should be blocked as an unknown device on the network end, regardless if someone plugs into the network.
  
  Yeah, having services blocked on Wi-Fi and not ethernet just tells me that their IT staff didn't properly configure the network in public areas properly. That ethernet port should have been disabled, physically locked, or properly configured to use the public network like the Wi-Fi does.
- Or you could just ask them to avoid confusion as it takes 5 seconds and they may have a way of doing things that you don't know about? It's respectful and it potentially saves you a lot of hassle if it doesn't work and you need to troubleshoot it.
  
  Yeah. For all we know, there could be a sign in/out thing at the desk for if you use ethernet - She DID think OP was taking one of the library's cables after all, which implies the public has access, possibly through a sign in/out system
  
  I’ve asked librarians a full range of tech questions about what works, what’s blocked, what’s allowed.. they /never/ have a clue because of outsourcing. Their guess is as good as mine. In the 90s, I would say you are spot on. Librarians should have answers. Things have evolved to where the policy is decided non-transparently, it’s outsourced to an unreachable company, and librarians are simply as uninformed as the public. Trial and error. If you read the AUPs it never says Tor is banned at libraries, for example, but they simply block it. Experimentation is the way people get answers in my area.
  So knowing that librarians don’t have deep tech info, or even basic tech info, and that they also cannot escalate questions, talking to them is really where time is wasted.

Sounds like a her problem.

10+ years ago you had to bring your own ethernet cable to the University library because the WiFi couldn't handle all the students at peak times. Wo der if it's still the case.

It's uncommon for 'public use' ethernet ports to exist, unless they are clearly labeled. The ethernet ports might grant access to the internal network, which, is easy to accidentally do. A non-profit library with a limited budget might overlook all the extra protections on open ports (enable/disable ports as needed, use 802.11x port-based authentication, internal SSL, etc), that would be necessary to secure it. Or, even better; that RJ45 port might be wired up to an old PBX, and you may have fried their telephone system, or your own hardware.

This sounds odd to me, unless you connected to an Ethernet port behind a desk or somehow forced open a network closet… They also might not like it if you disconnected one of the public computers to use its cable/port; otherwise if this was an open and public port, you used it as designed and the librarian probably has watched too many Hollywood hacking movies. I have to admit, I never thought of this as a way to bypass the captive portal (sorta just assumed everyone going through the public network would have to hit it, kinda of the equivalent to having everyone sign a liability waiver).
With that said, I can see some institutions not liking connections that aren’t part of the more traditional/commercial networking (but it doesn’t sound like the library took issue with your traffic, just the librarian didn’t like the PHY link you chose to use). For the SMS thing (I haven’t seen that used in a while, you might be able to use some sort of burner number app if they don’t filter them).
- I have to admit, I never thought of this as a way to bypass the captive portal (sorta just assumed everyone going through the public network would have to hit it, kinda of the equivalent to having everyone sign a liability waiver).
  That's because if that library's network was properly configured it would work exactly like your expectation.

You need to really, deeply consider what your stance is when you're painting libraries and librarians as the bad guys.
- You’ll have to quote me on that because I do not recall calling them baddies. I have spotlighted an irresponsible policy and flawed implementation. It’s more likely a competency issue and unlikely a case of malice (as it’s unclear whether the administration is even aware that they are excluding people).
  If they are knowingly and willfully discriminating against people without mobile phones, then it could be malice. But we don’t know that so they of course have the benefit of any doubt. They likely operate on the erroneous assumption that every single patron has a mobile phone and functional wifi.
  
  You have, throughout your comments, repeatedly spoken down toward librarians and libraries. You might not be painting them as malicious, but you're certainly not painting them as "trying their best" or "worth having an adult conversation with instead of misrepresenting my situation intentionally".

The wifi is for public use. The Ethernet isn't. How is that so hard to understand?
- The wifi is for public use. The Ethernet isn’t. How is that so hard to understand?
  How is it hard to understand that those two undisputed facts are actually a crucial part of my thesis? Of course I understand it because it’s the cause for the problems I described and my premise. It’s why this thread exists.
  If that weren’t the case, the only notable problem would be with the mobile phone precondition on captive portals.

I'm not surprised. I know people who don't even know what an ethernet cable is. I've worked enough IT to realize that a tangled mess of 6 cables can be as horrifying as a Predator to people. It doesn't help that everything is slowly going to POE, POE+ and even ++ now so it's doubling as power as well. In analog video days I could look at the back of a random device and instantly figure out it's purpose. That's rapidly becoming a rarity. For a worrisome section of the population, plugging in an ethernet cable is the equivalent of building a table or performing a back flip.
And when it comes to hacking, good god nobody knows anything. I remember we had a dozen students in high school (around 2000ish?) get suspended for "hacking" and really it was just that a section of the student body found a network storage location without any password protection and were using it as a flash drive on school grounds. Literally they just suspended anybody who signed their name on the homework assignments stored there.
The real crime was that drive had lunch pins for all the accounts in plain text to run their system, without a password!

have a principled objection to a service financed by public money forcing people to install and execute proprietary non-free software on their own hardware
You are on spot there, but sadly even legislators are far from understanding the reasons why this matters so much, let alone the general public.
Whatever security policy they have, it shouldn't require you installing a random executable to your system. And it was flawed enough that it didn't care to give your device access.
And by the way, it's so awesome you carry an ethernet cable around!!

It's not the librarians issue to worry about. It's the IT team supporting your library. If there wasn't a sign that said "not for customer use", then it's fine.

I mean, I asked at a library if I could plug into the Ethernet because my laptop had an RJ45 port and I needed to download something sizable for work and the WiFi was dropping it. They let me hook up on one of the library computer ports and I left it the way I found it.
- Yeah I’ve done the same in one case. Librarian green lit me plugging into the rj45 but it turned out to be a dead port. I might have been able to get permission to hijack an occupied port to an unoccupied machine but just opted to bounce instead.

Idk what I read because it is so stupid.