Exclusive: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say
Exclusive: ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say
43 comments
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I'm very surprised by this. I'd figured ByteDance had a final trick up their sleeve, some unscrupulous billionaire like Bobby Kotick who they could technically "divest" to while maintaining functional independence. Either they're incredibly confident in their legal team, or they're betting on popular protest to overturn the government's decision in the next year. Unfortunately for them, there's a global crisis currently ongoing that is a liiiittle bit more important to protest, and they might have to wait awhile.
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Well, this is several anonymous sources talking about a preference, not an official statement making a hard commit.
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That's fair. The reasoning is sound, I can certainly understand ByteDance's intention to keep the details of their algorithm a secret no matter what, but it's always a good idea to take any leak with a grain of salt.
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Stop giving them ideas!
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Apparently the way TikTok manipulates and influences users is so powerful ByteDance doesn't want to disclose any of that information.
Even if that means they shut down their business completely in the US. Them considering giving up this big of a market is a very scary indication on how sofisticated and powerful their algorithm.
And ByteDance is basically controlled by the CCP.
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It's an admission that running the business isn't the point of tiktok. It's an intelligence asset, if the intelligence asset is no longer viable there is no point operating the business.
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If you haven't black holed the entire tiktok domain at a router level by now, I'm not sure why.
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TikTok hasn't shown themselves to be particularly politically savvy so far.
As popular and as well loved as their platform is, they are getting kicked in the ass by the powers that be.
I think their survival now is predicated on them finding more powerful allies.
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Call. Their. Bluff.
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What does everyone think about the TikTok ban?
Personally I think it's absurd. What happened to freedom of speech? Freedom of association? Free market capitalism?
If an American citizen wants to use a Chinese platform, why don't they have the right to?
I think the data collection stuff is a red herring. Real reason is that war is coming and they're preparing the online information space so they can more easily manipulate it. Sort of how they did a test run with covid. Banning misinformation and such.
They don't have such a friendly relationship with TikTok as they do with Google and Facebook, for example. Behind the scenes, the feds work with them to amplify or suppress certain types of speech.
If the sale doesn't go through, I don't see how this will eliminate whatever little bit of credibility the federal government has among the younger generations. 18~25 or so
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What happened to freedom of speech? Freedom of association? Free market capitalism?
America has none of those things. We have clear limits on what is and isn't acceptable speech. We routinely see protest groups beaten, jailed, and killed for protesting things the police like. Finally, you have to live in a bunker if you think we have a free market
If an American citizen wants to use a Chinese platform, why don't they have the right to?
Because part of the government's job is protecting its people. If China gave away a blowjob and cocaine robot and all you had to do was walk it around and give it detailed tours of civilian infrastructure that'd be banned too despite being hugely popular. If the government desides it's in the best interest of the people to not do something then they have the authority to prevent people to doing it
I think the data collection stuff is a red herring. Real reason is that war is coming and they're preparing the online information space so they can more easily manipulate it. Sort of how they did a test run with covid. Banning misinformation and such.
This is just pure conspiracy talk. Occam's razor says the simplest solution is usually correct. What's the simple answer here? Data is becoming one of the most valuable "natural" resources. You don't hand valuable resources for free to rival governments. You charge them, or you prevent them from taking it. It's all about money
If the sale doesn't go through, I don't see how this will eliminate whatever little bit of credibility the federal government has among the younger generations. 18~25 or so
Call me naive but I like to think young people care about more than just the apps on their phone and are capable of holding a more nuanced view of our government than you clearly are
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There's always a back and forth between a government respecting personal freedoms and their responsibility to protect it's people.
There are justified limitations on personal freedoms and unjustified ones. For the classic example, yelling fire in a movie theater. That is a crime because it can cause people to get harmed. It is only a minor infringement on speech, therefore the benefits outweigh the infringement.
Every single time we infringe on personal freedoms, we need to do this calculation.
So there are 3 main justifications for this TikTok ban.
A) stop Chinese data collection. I think this is just misdirection. You say it's conspiracy, but just like the PATRIOT Act had nothing to do with patriotism or protecting children and the Iraqi war had nothing to do with WMD... the government often misleads or outright lies.
Much of our data is for sale to anyone who wants to buy it. In fact, our law enforcement loves buying data instead of going through the process for a warrant.
There are so many apps out there with less than scrupulous devs who are more than willing to scrape for as much data as possible and sell that off. China can easily acquire massive amounts of data regardless.
- stop Chinese influence on Americans. I think this one makes more sense than the first one. China is able to quietly suppress or encourage certain points of views - subtly pushing the 170 million Americans into directions that are beneficial for China's interests. For example, perhaps media discouraging support for Taiwan.
- connected to 2, by banning TikTok the US leaves only the main tech companies which have a proven track record of cooperating with the federal government. Not only in criminal cases but suppressing and amplifying specific types of media.
So what are benefits? US has better control of the digital media landscape. Cost? Americans are being restricting from accessing media they would otherwise access.
I don't see this as a worthwhile exchange. I think federal government should stay out of the media space. I believe this because we are a free society.
You are right that we don't always live up to that term, and never really have. But we get a hell of a lot closer than China or Russia. We shouldn't be moving towards them in ideological terms, but away from them.
As for the young people, there are 170 million people on the app and it skews younger. A large portion of these people use Tiktok as their primary social media. A lot of these will be pushed towards anti-establishment and radical ideologies. Tiktok already leans leftist (and not neoliberal left).
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Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
what is and isn't acceptable speech
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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Regarding freedom of speech, banning TikTok is not the government oppressing your rights to say things.
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The courts have repeatedly ruled that freedom of speech comes with freedom of association.
Montana tried banning TikTok and a judge blocked it for that reason - it infringes upon free speech. I think Bytedance will likely sue federal government under similar grounds. The government cannot arbritarily control what you want to say, who you want to say it to, or where you want to say it.
The Supreme Court has long held that the First Amendment's protection of free speech, assembly, and petition logically extends to include a “freedom of association."
It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the 'liberty' assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech. Of course, it is immaterial whether the beliefs sought to be advanced by association pertain to political, economic, religious or cultural matters, and state action which may have the effect of curtailing the freedom to associate is subject to the closest scrutiny.
It appears from the Court's opinions that the right of association is derivative from the First Amendment guarantees of speech, assembly, and petition,2 although it has at times been referred to as an independent freedom protected by the First Amendment.
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Only the US is allowed to steal our data and manipulate us with it. Not another country. Duh
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Cool beans. You are free to circumvent the ban, but I saw ban away and don't stop with just tiktok
Try releasing software in China and NOT adhering their their demands. See how long your software lasts... It's a two way street here and I'm glad the the US is finally seeing it this way.
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I don't use Tiktok and never have. I view it more a matter of principle.
China is an authoritarian state. We should not imitate them. Unfortunately I think Zizek was right when he said China's model is the most effective form of capitalism and predicted that all liberal democracies would eventually converge into a version of that system.
This is what you embrace with open arms. Do you not care about being able to access whatever media you want?
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Ehhh I was hopeful that it would lead to more EU style laws over users data and privacy in the US, then I stopped and thought for a minute and realized it wouldn't happen
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It's not about data. It's about broadcast content curation (i.e. the TikTok algorithm and how it might be used to change US policy by presenting a very pro-China narrative).
Citizens of the United States have a right to free speech and curation of speech within the United States. Foreign governments do not have this right and having foreign governments directly control the dissemination of information poses a real and active risk (https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf).
This is a principle that's been applied to traditional broadcast media for decades. It just hasn't applied to the Internet.
Data privacy laws would be great and we should be worried about how data is being used but, writing good data privacy laws wouldn't resolve the major issue here.
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It's not about the data, it's about the algorithm. Unlike other social media which has followers, subscribers etc. that dictate what you see tik tok is a pure black box recommendation algorithm. Tons of people's world views are shaped by tik tok and a slight tweak to this algorithm can have huge political consequences. I'm far from a china hawk but even I can recognize the dangers of allowing that sort of machine to be in the hands of a foreign rival. Ideally we'd take it out of the hands of the corporate interests running the ones here in the u.s. as well and force them to be open sour e, but that doesn't seem possible right now and at least those companies are more beholden to the American people then byte dance, there are American employees in those companies that can raise a red flag if management is telling them to push the algorithm in a direction.
The youth also probably won't care in a years time. Even if tik tok actually shuts down in the u.s. instead of selling, which I still doubt they will as that would effectively be burning 10s of billions of dollars to prove a point, the youth can just move onto another app like Instagram reels or YouTube shorts which offer the same experience but aren't as good because of the mass network effect tik tok has. If everyone is forced out of tik tok and onto one of the other apps they'll gain that same network effect and have the same experience after a bit of transition/ AI training time. The kids aren't attached to byte dance or tik tok, they're attached to the content and content creators who make it, and those can move to another app very easily.
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I appreciate your comment but let me ask you. Are you OK with the federal government getting to decide what is appropriate for you to read or watch?
I read the 3 body problem novel series and it was by a Chinese author. I loved the series and it dealt with a lot of interesting science fiction concepts.
Do you think that it should be banned? What if it's subtly influencing Americans through propaganda?
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nice but poor try, wumao.
If an American citizen wants to use a Chinese platform, why don’t they have the right to?
If a Chinese citizen wants to use an American platform, why don’t they have the right to?
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I think it's amusing how you call me wumao, feeling proud of how clever you are, while advocating for the US to emulate China.
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Im just assuming google and Facebook didn't like the competition and bought the vote.
TicToc didn't gaslight and lobby the government enough to be above the law.They didn't pay the bribes.
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The ADL and Zionists wanted TikTok gone so they can indoctrinate Gen Z in the art of suepporting apartheid without distractions from the reality based community.
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43 comments