Scientists push new paradigm of animal consciousness, saying even insects may be sentient
Scientists push new paradigm of animal consciousness, saying even insects may be sentient
Far more animals than previously thought likely have consciousness, top scientists say in a new declaration — including fish, lobsters and octopus.
Far more animals than previously thought likely have consciousness, top scientists say in a new declaration — including fish, lobsters and octopus.
Bees play by rolling wooden balls — apparently for fun. The cleaner wrasse fish appears to recognize its own visage in an underwater mirror. Octopuses seem to react to anesthetic drugs and will avoid settings where they likely experienced past pain.
All three of these discoveries came in the last five years — indications that the more scientists test animals, the more they find that many species may have inner lives and be sentient. A surprising range of creatures have shown evidence of conscious thought or experience, including insects, fish and some crustaceans.
That has prompted a group of top researchers on animal cognition to publish a new pronouncement that they hope will transform how scientists and society view — and care — for animals.
Nearly 40 researchers signed “The New York Declaration on Animal Consciousness,” which was first presented at a conference at New York University on Friday morning. It marks a pivotal moment, as a flood of research on animal cognition collides with debates over how various species ought to be treated.
I dunno about all that, but I used to have an African fish that would always get the zoomies when I'd come home from work. He'd spit water at me or gravel at the glass to get my attention, and loved playing hide and seek and always brushed up on my hands when I was working on his tank. He never reacted this way to visitors, just me.
Ofc they are sentient.
I fail to understand why do we will push the 'no expression of the face means no intelligence or emotions bcs most of us communicate that way'.
It always turns out that whatever brain mechanics we think of as our own we later & with minimal research find in other animals as well.
Evolutionary speaking too, same brain centres (with various density and relative size - of which we dont have all that dense brains & and most parts are underdeveloped), it's absolutely unlikely we would have developed something new in a few millions of years (especially given smol & fragmented populations facing extinctions and smol gene pools - tho that could be interpreted the other way too). It's just specialisation, some (advantageous) functions grew, other were optimised to the point of non-existence.
Then again, given how intolerant are we to our own species in terms of our emotional response to slight visual differences (I mean vcompletely evolutionary, uncanny valley thing, the next village of humanoids might have been competing for the same resources, which makes different culture/colours/face shapes = danger, etc), how we choose to ignore compassion (like 'look at that idiot, ofc they have no feelings, not unlike me, the superior being') ... ofc we can't immediately recognise and understand what and how animals are feeling. It takes a lot of time, effort, & empathy (mechanical empathy, like to fully underhand their environment from their pov, and emotional empathy, how they are processing that environment).
And the bigger the difference and habitats, the harder it is (like any sea animal really). Anything non-mammal seems alien to us, no matter the smarts (eg cuttlefish, that can clearly experience psychological trauma on individual and population/cultural level).
And then there are fungi. After that plants. And whatever we choose bacteria to be (like beings, or just a literal matter of environment we live within). Etc :).
So arrogant are we
This raises some interesting questions. The premise of these scientists is that consciousness can be quantified empirically. Yet many of the tests described in this article can be passed by machines. Does that mean that the scientists who signed the declaration consider some smart devices to demonstrate consciousness? And what are the implications?
I thought this should be obvious to anyone who's interacted with an animal, ever. But sadly there are a great many people who don't agree there is a 'soul behind the tv screen' as it were with animals more primitive than things like cats and dogs. It can be easy to use to justify human cruelty.
And it's easy for you to say it's obvious and you've thought that all along. You're not the demographic they're trying to inform.
Be that as it may, wasps can still fuck right off.
Will we now treat them as well as other clearly sentient animals like pigs?
In the 17th century, the French philosopher René Descartes argued that animals were merely “material automata” — lacking souls or consciousness.
I believe we're all "material automata." The mistake isn't thinking animals are more primitive than they are, but thinking we are more sophisticated than we are. We're nothing special.
I'd be tempted to go and say "no shit," but even the most obvious things have to be proven or tested. How you define consciousness can also change a lot.
Sometimes I confuse Sentient and Sapient in sentences but they actually don't mean the same thing at all.
In my opinion the idea of animal conscious has been fairly well supported for decades at minimum. There was a certain anti-consciousness orthodoxy in the animal behavior field that held back understanding of this topic. But I mean simple observation of animal behavior and the similar nervous structures surely leave animal consciousness the most likely explanation, even if it’s difficult to definitively prove.
A more interesting question in my mind is whether plants are conscious. This is a question that we truly have no idea how to answer.
No fucking shit... anyone with half a brain and a minimum of empathy already knows that.
Yes, yes, the scientific method doesn't discriminate between what is and isn't obvious, but the headline is, as usual, aimed at people with the intellectual capabilities of a 4 year old.
Anything being that has a sense of self and other has a level of conscious awareness.
damn, guess i'm more comparable to a goldfish than is reasonably conceivable to the average person.
I always instinctively knew it and that's why i love animals so much. My son was born just like me, with a love and respect of all creatures, even insects (Beside mosquitoes and flies because these can really eat all my electric tapper)
Any being that needs a map of the environment is going to have consciousness. Depending on its sense organs it will experience consciousness much differently than other beings.
So yeah that's a pretty low bar. We're going to find it everywhere. I suspect even mycelium is a rudimentary consciousness/nervous system. And plants are a lot more active underground than they are above, roots will move around rocks, be aware of if their neighbors are their siblings or not and share nutrients with their siblings by giving them more space, be more competitive with plants that they're not related to.
Life's a trip, and we are just some clever apes who have a lot to learn I think.
That’s not what Kurt Cobain told me.
The new paradigm is coming
The thing that makes the most sense to me is some combination of like animism and panpsychism. Then it doesn't matter what may or may not be conscious, basically treat anything like it might be to the most practical level. Though I realize this is crazy talk to most people.
For example, don't destroy stuff and cause what might be harm just for the hell of it.
- Don't kill a plant because someone called it a "weed"
- A person using the wood of a tree for warmth, cooking, survival is part of the cycles of the planet. A corporation destroying forests so those in charge of it can skim profits is not.
- Thank the plants and animals that gave their lives for your food, shelter, and things, and don't waste their lives.
- Maybe you have a piece of furniture that has history and has been in the family. Maybe it has some sort of spirit we can only partially understand. Maybe spirits come into being sometimes, when an object is built with love, such a a baby is made, or when someone builds a nice table. Destroying that table is more than simply the breaking of wood, it's the loss of a history, a being. A materialist view of the world is so limiting.