"Men are bad at picking up on women's hints." What are your actual thoughts on this sentiment?
"Men are bad at picking up on women's hints." What are your actual thoughts on this sentiment?
Either through memes or comments I keep seeing this sentiment pop-up from time to time. And I'm wondering what your (yes, you) consensus is on it.
I for one am too pessimistic to do anything with potential hints. Like even if there is a good chance I still just don't want to risk it.
If you get a “hint” wrong you could end up having a meeting with HR, being told to “fuck off, creep”, or some other negative result. So men might see what could be a hint, but the price of getting it wrong is too high for many reasons. So you either stop looking for them or just stop acting on anything that isn’t direct.
It’s also kinda the woman placing the responsibility and the work on the guy for making the “real” moves in an encounter or relationship. He needs to pursue her and pay attention, not the other way around.
I'm an autistic woman, and I've found great success in leaning into my autistic tendencies. By that, I mean just being blunt and upfront. One of my favourites is that if I've got chemistry with someone I don't expect to see again, before I bid them farewell, I'll give them a note with my number on and say something like "I had a great time hanging out with you tonight, would you like to go on a date with me sometime?" And then I hand them my number and scuttle off like a crab because I can only put on a cool face for so long before I crack under the anxiety.
Three things: one woman's "hint" is another woman's platonic behavior and "hints" are meant to be subtle so that they provide plausible deniability if there is no interest returned.
Dont blame us for not "getting" hints when part of the point is to be able to easily brush them off as not being signs of romantic interest. If you are interested in a dude, use your words.
And lastly, us not asking a woman out in response to her hints doesn't necessarily mean we didn't get the hints. It may just mean we aren't interested in that particular person and dont want to make it awkward.
I'm male, and bi. I'm about equally bad at picking up on hints from men and women, but it seems more common with men to just flat out state what they want, either immediately, or after I miss their clue, which I'd presume to be cultural.
I'm bad with social clues in general, so I dunno if it's a male-thing, or a me-thing.
Nah, we pick them up, but false positives are way too dangerous to risk it.
We're not bad....we're careful.
Make the wrong call and you are considered a creeper or worse.I'm a bisexual trans woman. I've dated men and women while presenting as male, and as presenting as female. In my experience the whole "not picking up on hints/not leaving strong enough hints to be picked up on" thing is not a gendered issue.
Honestly I really don't think men and women are as different as they appear.
I think most men are so infamously dense because they don't want to misinterpret things. It's a really thin line to walk and falling might ruin a friendship or make things very awkward. Very good manners/kindness and flirtatiousness are very difficult to distinguish.
Making the first move and reading things wrong can really hurt, especially if the other party wants it too. I had a female friend that was very friendly, who'd hug and hold hands with me at times. Friends told me to go for it. When I did she told all of her friends and I was collectively humiliated by the whole school. You could say I dodged a bullet, but it felt like I was by a car.
I'm over it now but I'm now very risk averse. Unless somebody are practically yelling at me to date them, I will only assume friendly intentions
How am I supposed to tell that you're actually hinting and this isn't just you? I've literally had that happen where a girl seemed super into me. Constantly talking to me and coming up with every reason to be close to me or touch me. I asked her out and she had a boyfriend and I'm just like "alright I'm never asking a girl out again this shits infuriating"
So now I just don't even think about it much. Occasionally I'll see a pretty girl and want to interact with her but then remember my experiences and go back to not caring.
Proviso, comment is based on old memories.
There was some research done on how women flirt. Women particularly put out IoIs (Indicators of Interest). These include things like hair flick, lip touching etc. When a woman is attracted to a man, the rate of IoIs goes up, sometimes 200-300% baseline.
Unfortunately, the catch is the baseline. Women vary widely on this. Some normally use 2-3/hour, others all the way up to 120/hour. This is where men can often get in trouble. A woman sending them 60/hour might be a 20 flirting outrageously, or a 120 who is actively disinterested. Trying to advance things will get vastly different results with these 2 women.
Because of this, a lot of men get risk adverse. Even if they pick up on the hints, they are not sure if they are reading them right. Conversely, a few men go the other way. These men tend to have a disproportionate, problematic effect on women. This is why most men don't think that sleazy, overly handsey men aren't much of a problem, but women vastly disagree.
Basically, men are stuck in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. Even worse, the men who figure things out tend to find a good partner and pair up, taking them out of the pool.
To add to the confusion, what women say they want, and what actually works can be quite different. The same applies to men. However, since men are generally expected to make the first move, they tend to screw it up a lot more (and get burnt).
Anecdotally, I had two female coworkers that acted the same way around me, kinda flirty but in a more friendly way, I felt, rather than trying to hint at anything. One said "EWW" out loud when someone suggested we date, and the other told me way after the fact that she was super in to me and I should have made a move.
The women I've actually dated made an effort to make sure our feelings were not only known, but reciprocated before laying down the "rizz" too much. I have no problem lightly flirting with someone that has no desire for a relationship, its fun, but that can't be the only sign you're in to someone when it isn't even REALLY a sign for a lot of people.
I am 100% thick as bricks when it comes to picking up on hints directed at me.
But I have no problem seeing others flirting and one of them being oblivious to it.
That being said, now I am married I am ok with being oblivious.
There are hints? What hints?
Seriously: I can never tell if a woman is just friendly or interested in more. You have to be blunt. I probably missed quite a few potential relationships due to women dropping only subtle hints and me never getting them. My gf made her intentions clear from the start and not only was this her only chance, it's also very attractive to me.
Hints are great if what you look in a partner is the ability to solve puzzles. Otherwise, they should be skipped. Proper communication is key to any successful relationship.
I am terrified of making people uncomfortable, generally a lot more with women than men. Unless someone is very explicit, I will pretty much never act on a percieved hint.
"Why is this man so dense? He never responds to the subtle clues I carefully place behind a veil of plausible deniability."
If you're trying to make a move without making a move, that might be the reason he's not responding. You're asking him to take on all the risk of misinterpretation. At some point somebody has to be overt. If you're presuming it should be him, you should ask yourself why you think that.
I would say I’m reasonable at picking up hints, usually takes me about 4-10 years though.
If all you can do is hint, you don't deserve to get laid. You have to put yourself out there if you truly want to make a connection.
If I interpret what I see as a hint in the wrong way, and actually act on that misinterpretation, it could almost trivially lead to my arrest, conviction, and likely incarceration. And any sort of record - even if I was exonerated - could do significant to severe damage to my life-long economic potential.
So I just don’t fucking deal with hints. The math just does not make that a viable option in any logical or rational way.
If you, as a woman, can’t come out and converse like a functional adult, imma just gonna ignore you wholesale like the immature, games-playing child you are.
The hints are sometimes trash
As a gay man and outsider on this issue, it seems mildly sexist. It's the kind of thing that fits in with the content at over at r/AreTheStraightsOk.
The assumption that women are giving hints all the time rather than just trying to get through their day seems wrong.
And the idea that men need to get better at figuring those hints out rather than leaving them alone also seems wrong.
But whenever I hear the issues which men and women who date each other face I am often baffled.
Hints are bad, my relationships have all been with people who say what they want in plain English.
I don't even think it's true that men are particularly bad at this. Everyone is.
And I don't think hinting is automatically a negative thing like so many are implying. It just depends on your preference and then ultimately comparability. Hinting is a form of flirtation. Flirtation extends the tension period of romance/sex, and can add fun and excitement. Some people prefer a direct approach.
I hate the idea of hints. Because A. You then have to make the person your interested in make their own way towards you, and B. Then they have to notice it and then take a risk. I think it's FAR better, to give your crush an opening, serve them a line on a silver platter.
For example:
My wife was interested in me and she opened with:
"Am I too close?" To which I could've replied "nah you're good" or "yes, a bit" without any fuss. but, since I was also interested, I replied.
"Oh nonsense, if anything you're not close enough" which, can easily be dismissed as me being silly, but nope, she's interested. So she responds
'OH really? So how close can I get?"Like, set up a romantic line. If there's a romantic line to be had. If they're interested, they'll take it.
I too suck at it.
If I am picking up on a vibe I don't go all in. I point at the elephant and say: look, I think I see an elephant. Is it really there? My eyes play tricks in me sometimes, but I could swear you brought this elephant with you into the room.
Then they will say: yes, I did, or no, no elephant.
And then you carry on, with or without the elephant.
Historically, I've been terrible at interpreting hints. These days, I often worry about whether these hints are genuine, leading me to assume they are simply being kind.
Whenever I attempted to decipher these hints in the past, I was invariably rejected. Consequently, as an adult, my self-esteem has suffered greatly. So much so, that with the last woman who dropped hints, I merely wanted to be friends. Five years later, I still think about it.
Needless to say, my job doesn't provide many opportunities to meet women.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
I can tell when I’m being flirted with for the most part, but I can’t tell whether it’s flirting for fun, or they’re genuinely interested.
I know I suck at picking up on hints, unless it's someone I know very well - and even then I suck at it. I'm honestly just sorta scared that if I mistake a non-hint for a hint, then I'll ruin a great friendship or something.
However, there once was this one woman who made it fairly obvious she was attracted to me and, after a few dates, said something to the tune of "we're going back to your place now, or this isn't going to work out". So anyway, we're married now. Half the time her "hint" when she wants to have sex is asking me why I still have underwear on. Of course sometimes things still progress there naturally, but then she also makes it fairly obvious if she's truly in the mood.
Point of the story is, ladies, if you really like the man, feel like he likes you too, and he's not getting your hints, don't be afraid to be direct. Sure guys like the chase too, but to have a woman straight up tell you that she's really into you and feels a special connection with you that she's never felt before? It's just such a beautiful experience... There's just so much I'll never forget, even if our ways were to be parted one day.
It's true. I once played spin the bottle with one other person and didn't realize what the plan was after playing it. Thought it was just an awkward interaction until she asked brought it up a couple years later.
Later on in life, a girl invited me to a sleepover and we were joking and having fun shared a bed and went to sleep. I woke up to her crying because she took it as me finding her ugly and not being into her.
Needless to say neither went anywhere because I guess my smooth brain was not an attractive trait.
when we met, my bf never picked up any of my hints, and i gave him many. i mean we met online, had a lot in common, and got along really well right away. i mean he was exactly my type and i was very clear about that as we got to know each other lol. but i only hint at interest until i'm sure, and then i get direct, so i eventually asked him out. he seemed pretty embarrassed for not picking up on the hints afterward, especially the more direct ones, but i just thought he was pretty adorable for it. i've never really thought all men are necessarily bad at taking hints in particular i mean i have never put much thought into whether a particular gender is worse at picking up on hints but i'm a woman and i've dated and had situationships with men, women, enbies and more and and in hindsight i'd say i've been bad at picking up on hints and everyone's been bad at picking up on my hints so probably everyone's bad at it lol
I honestly cannot tell if anyone is flirting with me or not. I also cannot imagine that anyone would flirt with me in the first place, but if anyone did, I still wouldn't know. The only flirting I knew was when my wife called me up and lectured me for not asking her out. Apparently, she had been flirting with me and I didn't know. I am not bright.
Too general, aka always wrong
My sentiment is that men are in this horrible place where consent is king, and explicit communication is necessary, but too many women still want to play hard to get, or do these tiktok challenges to trick men into giving them a reason to be angry.
Some of us are just bad at picking up on hints, whether they come from women, men, or grizzly bears.
I had a woman flirting with me yesterday at the bulk food store. Happened to be at the coffee grinder, and she was struggling with it, and I just spontaneously teased "you broke it I'm telling"!
This led to a little bit of banter and talking about recipes, which led back to how she likes to get her coffee here.
I told her how I like ro enjoy my morning espresso.
She smiled and gave me that flirtatious side look and mellifluously intoned "I'd sure love some morning espresso... Brought to me in bed..."
The words floated off my lips "is your kitchen floor cold? Should I bring my slippers?"
She immediately looked shocked, faced directly at me pie-eyed. "I should have known better. Typical response from a man."
I was fucking gobsmacked.
Don't ever tell me that men don't pick up signals, we have been trained... by women, to never pick up signals.
I was always terrible at picking up on hints, but even when I did get the hint I was generally either not interested in pursuing something, too cowardly to pursue it, or I had a preference to go about things a bit slower.
Sometimes women can be attractive and hint a lot, but once you've burned yourself once or twice you realize it's better to take things slow than to risk getting involved with someone more crazy than you can handle.
Amongst people I am closer to and actually like I am absolutely oblivious at times, but I would much rather err on the side of friendship.
I know a girl who hinted so badly that she wants me to send her nudes but kept laughing afterward. Until one day I told her that I would send her then she said she was joking and acting like a horny man. That's one example of many I have in my life where a girl would tell me that we should be boyfriend and girlfriend, then when I proposed to go out with her and gave weeks to choose from where I know she had no work, she replied that she is a busy woman and keeps her day offs to her many friends. I was devestated and felt like a creep. I also had a female friend who had forever hinted that we should fuck, and when I went to her house she showed up to me covering her boobs behind the door of the shower wet covering her boobs with her hands , and I immediately apologized and said I didn't know she was in shower, and she said it's okay come in. So I go in thinking she wanted action, but guess what? After I kept pushing and hinting she said she was just being herself and never wanted shit. I can go on and on with such stories. They all made me literally too numb to give a fuck anymore and I wouldn't pick up a hint if a girl I'm with started masturbating in front of me unless she made it clear she wants me to join. Anyway, I gave up on this shit long time ago. I came to terms with the fact that females and males have different brains when it comes to sexuality
Seems like a way to foist off the responsibility for shitty communication on the supernaturally-supposed-to-be-recipient, in my opinion.
I'm seeing a lot of "acting on a not-a-hint is way too dangerous" comments. I'm curious as to what you think acting on a hint is. They almost never mean "let's make start boning with no further communication".
Just ask "are you flirting with me?"
Well first of all there's no such individual as "men" so it's impossible to generalize. Some can and some can't. I think it's however safe to assume that on average we're not that great at it.
In my own case I think I'm quite good at reading the underlaying emotions of especially my girlfriend but then again I know her really well anyway. However this goes a bit against my suspicion about my autism because you'd think I had more trouble with that. Then there's also the fact that I'm tall and somewhat handsome if I may say so myself so I haven't really experienced the situation of a woman not wanting to talk with me but I can see when they don't want to talk with someone else.
It’s not just men, as an autistic woman I have a hard time with this too. It’s better if people are just straight forward and plain spoken
Sucks to be someone who only communicates in hints, I guess.
I think the definition of a hint is communication that’s difficult to clearly receive.
There are multiple layers to this hornet's nest of a topic. But from a personal perspective, I know I was (still am?) terrible at reading such interest from women. Luckily, I'm happily married, so I don't need to worry about it now.
In the past I've literally had to have women launch themselves at me or graphically proposition me before I was aware that they were really into me. And even then it was often a surprise. And there were a few times I asked out girls who I knew and seemed to have done chemistry with, and they recoiled in alarm. And I'm a fairly average neuro-typical guy. So yeah, I think some of us definitely have trouble reading the interest of women in those one-on-one situations.
Quite a few of my make friends have run into similar experiences. While a few others assumed any woman who spoke to them must be into them. Which is, of course, the other side of the same 'unable to read women' coin.
But adding to all that, there are all the tricky social obstacles to navigate. Things like:
- a minority of women wanting to be chased off they said no to an approach (depending on who was approaching them, of course); or
- worries about making women feel threatened or distressed by offering an unwanted advance;
- or how it's sometimes difficult to differentiate between a purely platonic friendship, or a pure romantic friendship, or one that the woman wants to transition from the former to the latter;
- or just realizing a woman is into you but feigning ignorance because you (the guy) isn't into her and doesn't want to exploit her for sex or ruin a social group dynamic.
So yeah, it's a fucking (pun intended) mess.
Women are bad at picking up men's hints.
Humans are just bad at picking up flirting because everyone's idea of the thing is different.
Well I know I am. I don't like subtlety. Too easy to mistake from friendliness. Be direct and honest or go home.
The Apple Vision Pro will fix this. You'll get a ❤️ symbol above people's heads when they are interested in you.
Like in Pictionary or Apples to Apples?
Hahh! I'm bad at picking up on anyone's hints!
I agree with what everyone has already said and...
Some people flirt to practice, or see if they can get a response, to measure their own self worth, to see "if they still got it", as a measure of power, or something to do when bored.
The game ends when the target takes the next step, and then it's no longer fun, and now 'creepy'. You can see similar behavior on dating apps with people who swipe yes, but then reject people in conversation.
So now not only do people have to recognize the hint, they also have to figure out the intention of the hint giver... i.e. was this a serious hint?
I ignore their hints because I'm not interested in ever having kids in a world like this and because they hint to bait me into some kind of trouble where they control the narrative.
maybe it's more, women feel like they have to give hints because being direct can receive judgment or not be safe. so it's not that they're bad at hinting it's just that they have to use hints a lot more often than we do, and I can't pick up a hint to save my life
I've never had a man not pick up on my interest. I have been called brutally honest though, so maybe I'm a bit more direct than most. I have had the reverse problem where they think normal politeness is an invitation.
Lol, men should have a mantra, "She's a WAITRESS, she's just being nice!" "She's a BARTENDER, she's just being fun!" "She's at the grocery checkout, she's just making small talk!"
"She's just a person being nice to other people. You are just a person she is being nice to. Be nice and leave her alone!"
It's actually more a question of women's hints being unable to penetrate men's insecurities and generalized incompetence when it comes to intimate matters.
Women resort to dropping hints when they're too scared to risk rejection by being direct.
I think men are as good at picking up on hints as anyone. I think their entitlement often leads them to ignore said hints, and then they try to cover their backsides by claiming ignorance.