Don't give Elon more money.

Idk, I talked with a bartender once who said he thought it would be amazing to drive one, and I said I didn't think I could stomach it because of Musk, and he said I shouldn't get political over a car. Well, they don't interest me enough to ignore the Elon part.

I rented one in California. I was never been so frustrated with a car before in my life. There are no knobs, for ANYTHING. Everything is done through the touchscreen. Try navigating the A/C system in traffic. Or as the sun goes down and the screen brightness doesn't dim, blinding you as you drive. I will never buy a Tesla, and it starts with the UI of the car. Elon is just the icing on that shit cake.
- I watched a friend of mine try to parallel park hers once and just about died laughing at how shit the autopark was. She said it kept determining that the right lane was actually the curb, so it would go through all of the motions of parking and then just stop in the middle of the street. Every time I read about or interact with a Tesla, I feel like I find out about something else they added because it looks or sounds cool but doesn't actually work.
  
  That auto-drive-ready car will be ready for auto-drive any time now, we swear!
  
  This is one of the criticisms of the car that hits home for me. People are now replacing old Teslas which they bought 'full self driving' for without ever receiving the feature.
  
  You can transfer your FSD license....
  
  That's a temporary thing to drive demand for this quarter, isn't it?
  
  Oh shit, yes, didn't know that!
  https://www.tesla.com/support/fsd-transfer#:~:text=Once%20you've%20taken%20delivery,2023%20and%20September%2030%2C%202023.
- I HATE that the auto industry is moving to soft buttons for everything
- sorry auto dimming and extra brightness are upgrade features not yet in the implementation pipeline :( lmao
- Same exact story. The whole first 2 hours I'm constantly having my kids Google Google how to lock the car, how do we adjust the mirrors, how do we turn it on, how do we change the radio station, how do we turn on the air, etc etc etc. On the third day my daughter is just trying to open the door and she yells "why is this car so fucking annoying?!"
  It's obvious it was designed by a child trying to look cool to the other kids.
  
  Love those door handles.
- The UI is not the worst I've ever had in a car, it sacrifices a lot in favor of simplicity and/or software but a lot of simple tasks can be done through voice or happen automatically.
  Wipers are auto, headlights are auto, but if you need to adjust them without using a voice command, you're gonna say "why can't this just be like a normal car"
  You do get used to a lot of the quirks pretty quick. But there are a lot of quirks to get used to.
  Not an Elon fan, just got one for a steal of a deal through a family member.
- The screen dims just fine on my 2019. A previous driver probably turned it off on yours for whatever reason.
  I also hate the lack of knobs but the voice commands and steering wheel buttons work well enough that I've come to terms with it.
- What? The climate controls are always visible.. how hard is it to tap or slide your finger on them.
  Since it was a rental someone before you probably turned off auto brightness controls.
It always blows my mind that capitalists say "then just vote with your wallet" until you use your wallet to vote differently than they want.
- But but but cancel culture!
- I'm Canadian.

Honestly I think they look pretty good.

They used to, but they haven't updated them, so now they look dated

I'm not a car guy, I just don't pay close attention. I drove a delivery van when the Tesla cars were gaining popularity, and I straight up had the thought one day how weird it was that there were a lot of '90s Ford Taurus sedans still on the road.
I won't go so far to say they're timeless, obviously, but I think the design has holding power. Their design language isn't especially bold but it's not out of place compared to newly released models from competitors. It's disappointing that they haven't made any bold changes, but I don't think that means they're dated.
But still, fuck em.
Yeah, Kias look fancier now.

To me they are the iPhone of cars. In a vacuum they are not bad looking, but every single one looks exactly the same. Just basic.

To me that's kind of just the design language. Like how all BMWs look similar, or all Mazda's look similar. Etc. Typically a strong recognizable brand is considered good, even in the auto industry.
And really idgaf if they all look the same. Model s, smaller model s (3), bigass model s(x), medium size Model s(y). That's fine. I don't need a single brand to offer everything, I can go to other brands for variety.
That said, fuck Tesla.

Honestly, why? Their "no harsh edges, flowing contours" looked good in 2010 but is now completely played out and ugly. Coupled with the fact that no Tesla has had a facelift in nearly a decade, I think they're the ugliest cars on the road rn.

the cabin height being a giant bubble is what i dislike. they pretend to be smaller cars than they are. a small tesla next to a normal crossover vehicle is a good way to remind yourself how big they actually are.
One man's "all look similar" is another man's "strong design language". I think BMW kidney grills are played out 30 years ago, but some people love them. Lambo wedges are played out. Jeep boxes are played out. Etc.
I personally like the no-harsh-edges look. I don't think it'd look especially out of place if it was released this year.
But don't get me started on the interior.

I think they peaked at the 1st gen Model S (love the red), and it went downhill from there

The S model is classy, I like it. All the others are awful.

No kidding. They build disposable cars, and the entire electric car industry is headed in this direction.

They last as long or longer than most ICE cars
- They'll last 20 years?
  
  My parents have a 2013 Model S that's doing just fine. It'll last 20 years I'm sure.
  
  I don’t doubt it can last 20 years, but I doubt any Tesla will last as long as an average Toyota. We know batteries have limited cycles. When an engine takes a shit it’s a few grand. When batteries take a shit, you’ll never even consider replacing them because they’re 5x-10x more expensive than the car is worth. So off to the landfill. Definitely saving the planet or much money buying a higher end model Tesla.
  I think it becomes economical sensible for a lowest priced model 3 if you qualify for all the rebates (state and federal), otherwise it’s an early adopter tech toy.
  
  There's a lot of misinformation here that I'm not even going to bother to respond to
  
  Ya that would be difficult for a Tesla fan. Easier just to make a baseless claim and pretend you could but simply don’t want to refute anything with facts.
  
  Not a tesla fan, but also not in the business of refuting uninformed but confidently held opinions.
  
  Then why even reply… Waste of time and space. It’s ok to just move on.
  Lithium batteries are very expensive(20k) and don’t last 250-300k miles. That’s an undeniable fact.
  Engine swaps are not even close to that. You can swap 5 engines for the cost of a full battery swap.
  And EVs aren’t saving the world. They’re saving a few people some money on gas. Which is much less than the extra cost of the cars unless you drive a lot, or live somewhere with expensive gas.
  20% battery degradation after 100k miles is not a small issue. It’s extremely significant to the equation of value.
  These aren’t “opinions.” They’re facts that are well addressed and talked about routinely. There’s no secret information about the limits of lithium batteries. They’re literally 18650 batteries. The same batteries consumers used for over a decade. We’re all aware of battery degradation.
  Some people are in denial. And that’s on them.
  You see lithium degradation curves here:
  https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2021/cp/d1cp00359c
  Yes. They’ll be “functional” for 2000+ cycles, but they don’t hold much charge after 1000 cycles.
  
  Fine.
  First of all, only 1% of gas cars make it to 200k miles. So even if we accept your contention about battery loss, 99% of EVs will last as long as gas cars.
  Second, EVs lose experience about 10% capacity loss per 100k miles. Some a little more, some a little less. So at 200k miles they'll still have somewhere around 80% of their initial range. Your 20% estimate is wrong, except maybe for Nissan Leaf which had poor heat management. My Chevy bolt had 50k miles on it with no appreciable capacity loss.
  Third, battery replacement on a tesla is around $13k which is not 5-10 times the cost of the car. Battery prices are also decreasing as more of them are made, so the cost will be lower in the future.
  I don't expect any of this will change your mind, since it's based on Fox News talking points, but I don't want other people misled.