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  • I remember when Google was the cool new kid on the block. How far they've fallen. But that's what unrestrained, unregulated capitalism gets you. It's all a race to the bottom.

    • Can we please stop pretending "regulation" is all that effective. It's been tried, and has resulted in corrupt bureaucracy or given way to neoliberalism (and corporate bureaucracy).

      What we need is a radically different system where the power truly is in the hands of the people, and not just nominally like in representative democracy (and which is completely lacking anyways in most workplaces). And what this requires is the construction of fundamentally different modes of production and human interrelation that will not resemble what we've got now, neither economically nor politically nor socially. Regulating capitalism won't get us there.

      • There's an issue at play here that I think we're not confronting enough. America has been on a steady march of deregulating in the name of corporate greed. Some of the most functional countries in the world are also the ones with the strongest regulatory bodies (granted they're also largely petrochemical profiteers, I do have criticisms even of countries that I think are doing better than the US) because there's a presumption built into the system that if left unchecked, the forces of greed will violate the liberties of the populace. Its not a coincidence that the only countries that faced major Y2K bug issues were the UK and the US. Germany, Nordic countries, and Benelux countries all ALSO faced this bug, but in those countries the consequences for fucking up banking data was fines. In the US and UK, the consequences were someone might sue in civil court. Much less scary for banking institutions so they continuously acted like the problem was someone else's problem until the last minute.

        My point is this: regulations work. We have case studies in other countries that they work. We don't implement them not because they don't work but because they require long view systems change and the political system we live in doesn't encourage thinking long term. Political funding efforts encourage thinking of policy in 2-6 year terms instead of the actual 30 year time frames it requires to plan them. Its much easier to pull a quick grift with political power weakening the overall system than it is to FIX the system. It incentivizes corruption. THAT is the issue that needs addressing and one we should really be trying to assess what the Benelux countries are doing so well

        • Capitalism with its unrelenting drive to maximum profits at all costs will always eventually erode regulations, or capture the regulatory bodies. We had more regulations, more unions, and higher taxes before. They were put in place in response to the excesses of capitalism in the early 1900s, and capitalists eventually found ways to undo a lot of them. We need different systems with different incentives, or keep repeating this cycle.

        • The deregulation march you're talking about is neoliberalism, and it hasn't just affected USA. And in a sense neoliberalism is capitalism's response to regulation.

          It's not that regulation doesn't work per se, it's that the (political) hierarchy through which it functions is susceptible to being taken advantage of, and inevitably it will be (*has been) taken advantage of by the capitalist class to protect their economic hierarchy.

          For democracy to truly represent the people it'd need to be federated from the ground up through free association. Large scale organisation and cooperation would be ephemeral, existing when/if the need arises and dissolving as soon as projects are concluded (or cancelled). But within the rigidity of the current system(s), where power is consolidated at the 'top' through processes we're lead to believe are necessary for 'order' (when their real purpose is of course control), horizontal forms of social organisation seem impossible (I like how Anark calls this - "hierarchical realism").

      • Regulation would certainly help, considering the USA has basically given up on it. They don't even try.

62 comments