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  • It's very simple. Radical ideologies spring from oppressive material conditions. When there is no scientific framework to guide the rage and revolutionary potential, you end up with shit like Zionism. You also end up with shit like Hoteps and White Nationalists and every other non-leftist stab at answering the question of "To who does the boot on my neck belong?"

    Just because Zionists are liars and terrible people doesn't mean the holocaust didn't happen. They're evidence that it happened along with generations of trauma forced on Jewish people. If there wasn't virulent antisemitism and Western Capitalism didn't conspire to make its own state, then Zionists would be about as powerful as Hoteps. They have state power precisely because the capital owning class gave it to them out of their own desire to isolate Jewish people from the rest of the world.

  • this is really messed up. comrades don't say this shit, don't believe this shit. the nazis were very litigious in their sick genocide and there is extensive evidence of the holocaust. fuck antisemitism, and fuck people who legitimately use anti-zionism as an excuse for it when it isnt.

  • Either this is some bad faith actor in which case he is a disgusting fascist or he is being sincere in which case he is a disgusting moron well on his way to becoming a fascist.

    Either way, he doesn't speak for the anti-genocide movement. Neither in Palestine or abroad. Those supporting Palestinian liberation are nearly unanimously supporting a free Palestine in which Jews and Muslims can live together as equals. They are shocked and revolted by the zionist genocide in Palestine for exactly the same reason they are shocked and revolted by the Holocaust.

  • This is why every lib in this site should be actively organizing to control the narrative. If someone doesn't get their "free Palestine" from a commie, they'll get it from a nazi.

    Find a communist org that is already doing this job and get to organizing, or get some like-minded friends and start it yourselves. The resources you need are all over this site

    • It's also extremely important to support anti-zionist jewish organizers. They're the ones that are supposed to occupy the vacuum left by zionazis

  • I knew this exact thing was going to happen. You're going to have people pushing the lie that "oh the jews lied about oct 7th so they lied about the holocaust" and unfortunately it's going to attract people.

  • truly the most disappointing thing is that now all the Nazis screaming about Zionism are now at least part correct

    • I distinctly remember that the first time I heard the word Zionist it was in an online forum from one of the least reliable sources I have ever directly interacted with and I suspect that experience is not uncommon. It took me a while before I even was able to accept that Zionism wasn't just a racist conspiracy towards the Jews.

    • The Holocaust is one of those things that's just simply not up for debate: it happened just about exactly as people said it did

      We have physical proof from the camps themselves - with the Soviets being the first to liberate concentration camps, and being the first to begin preservation of evidence

      We have documentation from the camps, actual papers telling us exactly what they were doing. We have bodies, tattoos on survivors, empty Zyklon canisters. We have the actual minutes of the meeting at Wansee where the cold calculus of the Holocaust was laid out

      While the aftermath of it has occasionally been politicized, usually around Israel, the simple fact of it existing isn't political. There's a good blog with an unfortunate name called Holocaust Controversies that debunks a lot of Holocaust denial and will provide primary sources frequently to do so

    • holocaust history isn't hidden. you can do research on it, like any other historical event.

    • It happend.

    • Hey, so a couple things:

      disengages

      You have to honor them when you call for them, This means, no paragraphs of text BEFORE OR AFTER the disengage call. No posts responding to people responding to you, just report them saying you called to disengage.

      This discussion went far off the rails. I understand where you're coming from, I think. It sounds like you want some recommended academic sources that cover precisely what the nazis did. After all, it wasn't just camps, there is also all of the scientific research they destroyed, the piles of dead bodies left in pits, and many more atrocities, too many to name.

      It sounds like you don't want to just do a google search, because you're worried that you'll get twisted american sources, like you would if you searched for stuff about uyghurs or the holodomor.

      This is not unreasonable.

      Personally, I think I could use an academic review of the exact horrors of the holocaust myself. Been a while since highschool. However, this post in the dunk tank is not the appropriate forum for it.

      I would like to invite you to make a post on askchapo, or another appropriate comm, asking for recommendations for reading to learn about the holocaust.

      I've issued a temp ban because I think things got worse than they should have here. It will expire in 5 days.

      If you want to message me personally about any of these topics, I have some academic friends, maybe I can hook you up with some good papers on the subject. Otherwise, for this topic specifically, you'll probably get some decent sources from even just a google search.

  • Mr goldbergstein in poland in the 1940s probablt has jothing to do with current day israel, hwoever, in this essay i will describe why he actuallyy did do everything and why the jolocaust was justified

    • Mr Minoritykill Hitlergoebbels, respected bipartisan NYT editorial writer
87 comments