1y ago

After 2-year-old girl shoots self, man becomes first person charged under Michigan's gun storage law

A Michigan man whose 2-year-old daughter shot herself in the head with his revolver last week pleaded not guilty after becoming the first person charged under the state’s new law requiring safe storage of guns.

Michael Tolbert, 44, of Flint, was arraigned Monday on nine felony charges including single counts of first-degree child abuse and violation of Michigan’s gun storage law, said John Potbury, Genesee County’s deputy chief assistant prosecuting attorney.

Tolbert’s daughter remained hospitalized Wednesday in critical condition from the Feb. 14 shooting, Potbury said. The youngster shot herself the day after Michigan’s new safe storage gun law took effect.

News @lemmy.ml

darth_tiktaalik @lemmy.ml

1y ago

After 2-year-old girl shoots self, man becomes first person charged under Michigan's gun storage law

apnews.com /article/michigan-firearm-saf-a38c8e01fff0bb70e90b9985d5bd4150

Michigan @midwest.social

raoulraoul @lemmy.world

1y ago

After 2-year-old girl shoots self, man becomes first person charged under Michigan's gun storage law

apnews.com /article/michigan-firearm-saf-a38c8e01fff0bb70e90b9985d5bd4150

126 comments

Finally, a sensible gun law.
- It will get challeged to the Supreme Court and struck down.
  https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/
  "In sum, we hold that the District’s ban on handgun possession in the home violates the Second Amendment, as does its prohibition against rendering any lawful firearm in the home operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense. Assuming that Heller is not disqualified from the exercise of Second Amendment rights, the District must permit him to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home."
  
  I just don't understand the US and the 2nd. You're not allowed to have a lot of various weapons and it just states that people can be "armed", which could mean a lot of things. And even then, having a gun stored away safely is absolutely not infringing on that right either, as long as you have access to it. This is just obsessive gun fetishism and it constantly gets people killed, including little kids.
  
  This isn't preventing him from getting a firearm this is charging somebody with improper storage of a firearm. Not sure how likely it is the supreme Court will rule against it but it's different than the laws challenged so far
  
  Where does the 2A say anything about "immediate self-defense"? Oh that's right, no where. Fuck SCOTUS
  
  Doubt SCOTUS ever touches this.
  The language matters A LOT: Michigan's mirrors California's, which would absolutely hold up to any constitutional challenge because it requires negligence with an adverse outcome. Michigan's and California's basically say you're a criminal if two things are met: you had any plausible expectation of a child being around, AND something bad actually happens.
  Every states are a little different, and at the other end of the intelligence spectrum are New Jerseys and New Yorks, and nobody even cared to challenge those yet. New Jerseys statute says you're a criminal, regardless of circumstances, if the guns are not locked up per some collection of criteria at all times when you're not actively accessing them. I do know that most of New Jerseys rare prosecutions are actual bullshit, for example a cop going door to door to gun owners because of some local crime, asking to see someone's gun to check it and not liking that the safe in the room he was in when they showed up was not completely locked (never mind he lives alone). Expect any challenge to arise there.
  If SCOTUS does throw out all storage laws, it'll be because of politicians who care more about their resume than about writing really good laws.
  
  They did leave some wiggle room which has allowed the law here in Washington to stick around. Basically if there is a reasonable possibility that a person who is not allowed to handle firearms would have access to them, you can apply restrictions. Guns here have to either be on your person or locked if there is a possibility that your kids could access them.
- And yet still another kid dead.
  Congrats on passing that super effective gun law, dude!
  
  And the "nothing" it sounds like you'd vote for wouldn't even punish the father! You'd rather have a kid die for nothing? Or would you rather we took the gun away? Are you saying that the only thing that actually works? Then we might agree on something.
  
  Yeah and people still get murdered so i guess you would like to legalize killing people?
  
  Is your argument that laws have no effects?
I do not understand how a parent can be so irresponsible as to leave a gun easily accessible in a house with children. Kids are really really resourceful. Its bit like keeping a hyper intelligent racoon inside with a drive to kill itself through curiosity. Guy definitely deserves charges
- Because a gun lock is liberal and gay and if you use one you basically are announcing to the world you just bought Beyoncé tickets.
  
  Man how fucked is this timeline that I had to scratch my head a bit over whether this was a sincere response or a caricature of a particular US demographic?
  
  "You wouldn't wear a condom on your man weapon would ya? Why would you safely secure your firearm? Murica! Fuck yeah!" - probably some dumbass
  
  Just like washing your ass.
  
  Know when you see a conservative meme and think, "Fuck they're dumb. Nobody talks or thinks that way."
  That's you. Right now.
- It doesn't take much to understand it. He's from Flint. If you know the area, there's a lot of reciprocal violence. He has previous offenses. It's hard to get out. He probably knows plenty of people who've had loaded guns around their kids and nothing ever happened.
  Yes, he deserves the charges, but like, this isn't some gentrified place. As a society, we really aren't helping folks in depressed urban areas to get better lives either.
- I do not understand how a parent can be so irresponsible as to keep a weapon designed only to maim or kill in their house with their children.
  
  The farther you get from America, the more woefully absurd it sounds. But, right in the middle of America, it's a very different place.
  And at this point in time, gun fetishism has gone meta-static and is afflicting many different states.
  And it's not the possession of guns alone: I've seen the exposé where Switzerland's gun culture is compared, and questions are asked about how they can have one gun per adult and still suffer an almost non-existent rate of accidents and murders. A lot of it resembles the 1950s where kids would be part of a school .22 target rifle team, store their guns and ammo on the premises and still no one got hurt.
  I really think it's the worship of guns, where Meal Team 6 tries to emulate cowboys of old, and fails on every level.
  
  I mean you can make the same argument about items like a bow and arrow, crossbows, and swords. There are valid reasons to have weapons in the house however they should be locked up so that they aren't accessible normally.
- I wouldn't focus on his plea. He's likely doing this on the advice of his lawyer to secure plea deal. Initial charges always very harsh and this is a pretty common tactic in American court. It's like companies who won't say "you're sorry" because it opens them up to liability.
- First of all, I agree with you that guns should be locked up if there's going to be kids/morons around them. I want to add that there's also a responsibility if you have both guns and children in your house that you should be teaching the children not to touch them (this is probably a good idea even if you don't have guns and live in the USA). DO NOT TOUCH THE GUNS was drilled into me and my siblings for longer than I can remember. My grandfather kept a rack of long guns in the back bedroom of their house where we would sometimes play as kids and none of use ever even looked at them for more than a few seconds without somebody being like "don't touch those". I do consider that to be irresponsible as fuck but my point is education would certainly help prevent injuries if a kid did happen to get access to a gun.
  
  I mean I completely agree with you and that is definitely a rule in my house however if a parent can't be bothered to lock up their gun I'm not entirely sure they're going to bother teaching their kid not to touch the gun.
- Because people who like guns are generally VERY stupid.
Surprised that's a new law. In NM recently, in a particularly stupid case, some 14 year old kid shot his friend, a girl, I think on accident... then dragged her body outside and made up an idiotic story about how it was a unknown-motive drive-by and someone in a black SUV shot her. Anyway, his dad had a ton of guns just casually laying around their trailer or house or whatever. The father has been charged with 'negligent making a firearm accessible to a minor resulting in death'.
- Gun laws vary by state, my guy.
  
  Yes, this is a great example of that.
He pled not guilty? Really?
- That can be a claim, whether or not they're disputing the basic facts, that the situation doesn't match the specific crime the defendant is accused of.
  
  If he plead guilty he'd be accepting a felony charge and would have to give up his guns. He's probably holding out for a plea that lets him keep them.
- Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think defendants almost always start by pleading not guilty, then later accept a plea bargain.
His defense should be insanity due to drinking too much of the municipal water.
Sorry, couldn't resist. Awful
- Oh jeez. He is from Flint, Michigan.
  
  I mean, I don't know how else you defend this level of stupidity. Leaving loaded guns accessable to children. SMDH
With these guns storage laws, don't forget to hold gun safe manufactures responsible for selling ones that can be opend with a spoon. Lock Picking Lawyer
I say about a $10 million fine per unit sold with vulnerabilities that allows it to be opened non-destructivly (or minor cosmetic damage) without touching the lock mechanism.
$10 million if it can opened by sticking any object in the key way and it opens
$5 million if it requires a lock pick set, but can be opened by a noive in less than a minute.
$15 million if it uses a master lock.
Seem fair?
- Using a masterlock should be immediate execution for entire c-suite, board members, and anyone involved in the design process. Let's be real here.
I'm 100% for mandatory safe storage laws and prosecution of those who fail to do so, especially if that failure leads to injury, death, of theft of said firearm and that gun is used in a crime.
Unsecured handguns account for the majority of firearm suicide deaths in the United States, study finds
Overall, firearms used in unintentional injury deaths were often stored loaded (74%) and unlocked (76%) and were most commonly accessed from nightstands and other sleeping areas (30%).
It is difficult to ascertain the exact number of guns that are stolen from individuals in the United States because many of these thefts are not reported to law enforcement. However, estimates from a number of survey studies indicate that roughly 200,000 to 400,000 guns are stolen from individuals each year....Whether taken from gun stores or from individual gun owners, a firearm is stolen every 2 minutes. These stolen guns are often diverted directly into illegal trafficking networks and end up being used in the commission of violent crimes.
The Largest Source of Stolen Guns? Parked Cars.
All stolen guns are available to criminals by definition. Recent studies of adult and juvenile offenders show that many have either stolen a firearm or kept, sold, or traded a stolen firearm: According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft, and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.
The Southern [of the USA] region has the highest percentage of house-holds with firearms and the least safe storage practices (Okoro et al. 2005). Not surprisingly, most Southern states are “exporters” of guns traced in crime (Mayors Against Illegal Guns 2010).
So the assholes that need to have guns with them, constantly available, unsecured, because the "might need to access them instantly" or some such nonsense are the very people feeding guns into criminals hands and causing death and injury via accidental shootings and suicides.
I told my 19-year-old sister-in-law that toddlers are kill-myself machines, she has a 2-year old who's always getting into the cabinets under this sink. She said that I was over reacting. I can't wait to show her this.
- Let's be real, a 19 years old having a 2 years old to begging with is in itself a problem.
  
  Only because she's poor.

126 comments