Everyone I've talked to about joining Mastodon/Lemmy/The Fediverse
yeah but if you join, and your friends join, and they're friends, you know what nevermind
[Edit] holy shit people I get it, people like it small, take it easy it's just a meme, don't need to keep commenting and DMing
I went to Reddit for the first time this month to speak up in a relevant thread about it and got a bunch of tone deaf replies about they‘d rather join Threads cause "its popular and you sound like crypto bros with the decentralised stuff" and also some "Lemmy was made by tankies" and so on.
You know what, I don‘t care, don‘t want these short sighted people here, let them get screwed a few more times by the corpos if they enjoy it so much.
Yeah, I read stuff like that a while back before threads, but there was a turning point. Used to be Reddit was the place you'd downvote any post about meta, insta, or any other huge social media to hell. Now tiktok videos are upvoted to the frontpage.
And Lemmy's founders may not have views I like, but then again neither does Meta's founders. At least with Lemmy if their views ever make it into code we can fork off of it
Funny thing is my comment was about kbin, I just mentioned Lemmy and Mastodon as an interaction, but that is their main talking point anyway, the other ones was "too complicated" and "looks shit" and some more. They clearly don‘t have any understanding of open source or forking, so I didn‘t even bother to explain.
Also I don‘t even wanna know what ideology spez or Zuckerberg subscribe to, probably something fascist too and TikTok is also owned by tankies basically, anyway no sense in fighting that and I regret I tried, just glad I got this space with all of you to enjoy.
Yeah, not sure I really want all of those low-effort shit posters here. Let them pollute another community.
My vernacular is a bit dated, not sure if I'm a tankie, pretty sure I'm not a corpo.
Either way, I'm perfectly happy with the community here as it exists, and if it leans toward the geek crowd I'm all for it.
For sure, if people are looking for an alternative, and are interested, I'll recommend it, but I don't think we need to advocate for Lemmy to drive the masses here.
Tankie is authoritarian communists, so basically China/USSR/dictatorship fan. Corpo is from Cyberpunk to mean like businessmen/executives, but I like to use it for kinda hyper consumerist/capitalist people too.
I personally do think there is more to people than their political ideologies usually, even if I get upset with some of them for it.
I agree and I do have a feeling like it‘s a geekier crowd, similar to Reddit 10 years ago when I first went there.
not sure if I'm a tankie
What are your thoughts on the mass internment of Uyghurs? Complete denial? You may be a tankie.
I'm perfectly fine with this sort of hierarchy as the mainstream platforms inevitably become terrible.
Reddit's life blood is arguments for the argument's sake, even when you don't have a flu what you are arguing against or for. So it doesn't really surprise. Besides, Reddit's been heavily moderating positive comments about Lemmy so it may be that bias showing
No, it is not.
But we do want people here. We're extremely social creatures. Its natural we would want to recreate our virtual social spaces in a place that cannot be overrun by monetization. Keep trying! Water cuts through rock not with force but with persistence!
Eh, I'd rather only have people genuinely interested in exploring and sharing knowledge here. Makes it closer to the purer internet of old before "Web 2.0" came and fucked it up.
I don‘t feel like it myself, but feel free to try to get through to them of course. I do want more people here, but I‘m also ok with it not being that many and especially not all of the thick headed ones who need a billionaire to tell them what to think.
Dude, if some country did some crazy shit in the past, that doesn't mean that entire nation is shit. You can't apprentice people like that.
If people will, they will talk about wars in America, Russia, Iran, Europe etc..
STOP DISRESPECTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR BELIEFS, IDEOLOGIES, LOCATION!
I also don‘t think the entire nation is shit about China by the way, mainly the way the government repress wrongthink and block half the internet and kill people for protests is from my perspective SHIT. Now, judging by your style of "discussion" this will upset you even more, so I prefer to block in advance. Have a good one.
Honestly? I think a big issue with getting more people over here is kinda the attitude. This place is really elitist and condescending when the real reason go to threads or stick to twitter is cause
I like it here, its been my prefered site, but between the stale memes and elitism the Fediverse has been like the Linux of social media. Probably better, but not really worth it for the average user.
Like, I know that wont win me any friends, but it's the truth. People are usually going to go the path of least resistance, and Lemmy instances being confusing to navigate for an average user, or looking at Mastodon.world and seeing they banned shitposts and not understanding that they can use a different one or spin up their own is going to turn people away.
If you want a more niche userbase that's fine, I certainly do, but it's wild to insult them for being stupid for not joining while actively keeping them away lol
Edit 2: Removed the first edit
This place is really elitist
Folks over here shit on them a lot
I feel called out. And I can't even try and defend myself, if I'm being honest, best I could do is try to defend my elitist point of view, that people who don't want to bother putting the slightest bit of effort really don't have much to do here. There's also the problem that instances can only grow so much before their home servers get strained with traffic and hosting costs soar.
In a way, we are and will remain the linux of social platforms. Small, vocal, divided by the pettiest reasons and annoying to no end to "the normies"
Self-solving problems
You make good points. People could afford to be more accepting and patient.
But it's also inevitable that the people on a more niche platform will judge the people on a mainstream platform. That's just human nature, and it doesn't turn people away as much as you imply. For everyone who's turned off by the condescension, there's another person who's curious whether it's justified.
while actively keeping them away lol
I mean, the numbers clearly indicate that 99.99% of reddit users have never made an account on Lemmy. I don't think people are being pushed away, I think they are simply lazy and short sighted, and also waiting for the dust to settle.
Reddit was the most elitist site on the planet for much of its existence, and it never posed a problem for growth.
I have nothing against people that want to use Threads, truly, and I would welcome them to Lemmy. That said, I do draw the line at federating with Threads. I'm here specifically because it's not part of a big company. If anyone wants to enjoy that content, go for it! Just create an account over there.
How would being federated with Threads work? Aren't we federated with Mastadon? I barely see Mastadon stuff, so why would we see thread's stuff?
I completely agree. Absolutely should not federate with Threads.
Watching this whole thing go down has made me realize that regardless of what people say, it's not about the number of people, the quality of the experience, or anything like that.
A lot of people actually want to be surrounded by "brands" and "influencers". Some people even get a kick out of "hate following" people who they don't like, which blows my mind.
That's why Threads feels so right to them. Threads has been designed for one thing, and one thing only: connecting companies to customers, often via influencers and eventually through traditional advertising.
Yup, there's a reason all of the corporate brands immediately jumped over there, and most celebrities.
The only reason I'd want to federate with threads would be for celebrities I follow, but even then I'm not sure if I'll federate my instance with it. Definitely not creating a threads account by any means.
This. I don't want to be on someone else's "team" because I like to form my own opinions. I don't want other people telling me how to manage my own head.
I think it is the bother of building up a new following before you get your fix of likes and other narcissistic stuff like that
You can use peertube in fedilab
That's my thing, newpipe has a really clean interface but I'd love to interact more. Might have to check out this fedilab thing I keep seeing mentioned
The truck is not to tell them all the complicated shit. Just tell them it's another social media site that you browse. Don't need to tell them about the fediverse. Don't need to tell them it's independent. All that stuff is like a Naruto headband is to girls.
They'll discover all that stuff afterwards.
There is also an argument that there isn't even a need to advertise it... in fact some of the most popular things come from people "discovering it" themselves... and even then, some would argue they hope less people discover it yo keep their small town communities.
Quality > quantity.
I'm not interested in seeing cringeworthy posts or paid posts to ruin healthy conversation here.
"Healthy conversation" is endless elitist circlejerk and decade old jokes? Lol
"nobody drives in New York, there's too much traffic".
Funny, but totally irrelevant here.
Its the same as how the vast majority of the US citizens hate both main political parties, but the majority also says "I wont vote for a third party because they could never win."
Yeah but it's true. It's better to ensure Republicans don't win than try to get your third party in. The problem is not the mindset of the people, it's the first past the post voting system. If they used ranked choice voting instead, it wouldn't be a problem.
Yet this endless cycle continues if we always vote for one of the big 2 rather than voting for someone we actually like.
Ranked choice voting comes with its own set of problems. Personally I think approval voting would be best, and then Star voting after that.
No voting system is perfect, but just about any other choice is better than what we've got right now.
This isn't a fair comparison because there's nothing stopping you from being on Lemmy, and the same evening watching some YouTube.
Most US voting systems are first-the-post which results in the spoiler effect. They would be wasting their vote if they don't vote one of the big two. (Other than areas which allow for proportional representation).
Don't vote for a third-party present, or governor or whatever. Y'all need some preferential voting to make that work.
Cool, the community is big enough. I’d welcome more, but I like social media better when the techies are the majority.
Just like the Internet in 2005! Which means...
Oh no
Reminds me of this discussion of how a scene/subculture grows and evetnaully dies: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
Feels like federated social networks are creating a new fresh scene, and there's now an influx of new users (including myself)
Everyone is still using corporate shit because everyone is still using corporate shit
Be the change
The same problem is in politics in Germany. They vote only for the big politicians who have already a big group of supporters and so a high chance to win. Like „ I don’t vote for xyz because they have only 0.5% of voters in Germany and can’t change anything by that“ . With this attitude they also grow very slowly.
It's not only in Germany...
And it’s by design
This problem is a property of the way elections are done. Take a look: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
There are alternative voting methods that can solve this. Ranked Pairs and Schulze are my favorites, but Instant Runoff would solve this problem as well.
Edit: format
Take a look: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
Isn't that specifically about First Past the Post? (which is mainly only used in places that were once British)
Yeah but in that case they are right. Not voting for the bigger party that you don’t like that much could mean that another big party that you really dislike will win.
The people are not the problem, the system that doesn’t allow them to voice their opinions through a fully democratic vote is.
We usually talk about “democracies” as an umbrella term without regards to how their electoral and government systems actually work.
Bc changing the system is a challenge to the people who get power from that system.
Honestly, I'm fine with the normies staying on Reddit and Twitter, while all of us 'new cool' folks explore our rebel alliance.
Threads starting up just proved to me that everyone would willingly join the empire if it gave them the smallest amount of convenience. Hell they'll pay for the empire to have less privacy and freedom if they can.
Exactly. And the same applies to Linux, if it becomes majority then hackers and scammers would start targeting it. This things are better off thriving in their niche than dominating the environment
Lots of my friends are going absolutely nuts trying to get into Bluesky asap because a bunch of big queer/left voices went there and they want to get in "before too many people join and it starts to enshittify". It's hard to compete with people that a lot of others want to follow dictating the direction with their influence. I must admit, so far my Mastodon feed is not all that interesting. Lemmy does entertain me, though.
Tell them it's a secret club that you've formed with friends. Set it up for them on their computer or phone. It might make it seem fun.
it's not that small compared to 7 weeks after reddit started
if you compare modern/present day lemmy to Reddit 7 weeks after it started
Lemmy is more like the old school Usenet than modern social media, and I would like it to stay that way. I don't want the average doomscroller to come over here, I like the cozy atmosphere.
Was usenet pretty much a bunch of federated forums back then? When I first heard of it, around 2009, all I could find were places charging upfront for registration.
The Fediverse is a resurrection of an old concept,and yes, Usenet was a bunch of servers talking to each other, very much like the rest of the Internet. It has been supplanted by the World Wide Web in the 90s, and now that the Web is choc full of SEO spam, bots and intrusive ads, Usenet style communities are popping up once more.
As for the modern Usenet, it is mostly being used for ahem "file sharing", hence why some companies offer paid access.
Tbh I kind of don't want everyone here with us lol
People have gotten used to content being served to them. Meanwhile I still enjoy discovering something new.
This is the ”insurmountable” challenge of almost every tech platform from Google to Reddit to Twitter and so on, the competitive advantage is the user base. So without a notable performance advantage (like Google usurping Yahoo) or tangible user experience benefit (Facebook replacing MySpace), these platforms will remain the dominant player in their niche.
Good news is the shitification of tech has really presented some opportunities in some of the niches. Obviously we’re all aware of reddit’s recent actions, Twitter is trying its best to fail, Facebook went the cable TV route and made itself uncool, and Insta keeps flirting with real bad ideas.
Fediverse might not be the answer, but there hasnt been a better time for viable alternatives in a very long while.
If Lemmy isn't the answer then I'm not sure what hope we have. This seems like a perfect storm and I doubt there will be a better alternative coming any time soon.
One of my concerns is that we are running out of people who remember the pre-corporate internet at this rate. This platform has a gaping hole of Gen Z users as far as I can tell. Many of them never experienced the internet when it was cool, so they don't have any particular dissatisfaction with the curated dopamine drip feed it has been turned into.
It just feels like this is the moment to revive that original dream of the internet for a new generation. Let's make it happen here so we can take credit for it 😅
The onboarding experience still sucks.
Ok but I don't post on twitter. I only view posts on Twitter, and they're pretty much all from relatively big people. So before I can move away, the people with big follower counts needs to move first. The only people on Mastodon that I follow are tech people. All the other people are on Twitter, Threads, or have just straight up left twitter altogether.
My feeling is that most of the social media platforms are just turning into cess pools of right wing hatred and evil. Reddit was left leaning, but their recent move just seemed obvious they want to go the way of twitter and be a shithole of a website as well. Just another money maker by exploiting the dumber people.
Reddit was left leaning
No, it really wasn't.
Reddit was self-siloing and community moderated, so it was easier to avoid the worst of right-wing social media bullshit, but the place was (and is) crawling with anarcho-capitalists, techbro libertarians, and socons, and fascists with just enough brain cells to rub together to not get banned from the site.
Moderated spaces tend to filter out the biggest assholes who can't help themselves when it comes to blatantly and openly attacking people, but Reddit is not a moderated space. It's just that it contains moderated spaces that became large -- the unmoderated ones don't grow at the same rate. But there have been fairly long standing, ongoing, and successful efforts to fash up mid-sized subreddits and turn them into cesspits.
collective action problem is not a joke Jim, billions suffer every year
I might be a weirdo here but I enjoy both kinds of social media mainstream social media is cool because all your friends and family are there and you can fellow famous people but the fediverse is fun because of all the fun nerds and weirdos activists and people whose massage would be squashed anywhere else
Same guy goes and signs up for lizardman's Threads
Yeah there’s no way in Hell I’m telling average people to jump on the fediverse train. This place is niche af - just like Reddit was in the early days.
I mean it's kinda true. I have an account but...I have no one to follow...and no one to follow me.
You can follow topics though, hashtags.
I'm here cause I'm tired of mainstream Social media. Why the hell would I want to bring them here?
Because what defines mainstream social media is more the algorithms and ads than the participants?
I'd argue it's a combination of both. Facebook is a good example of this. I still remember when Facebook was still considered a cool place to be, and it was more of where highschool and colleged age people gathered. Once everyone and their grandma got onboard, that's around the time it started becoming insufferable.
A lot of people who were here before the reddit migration definitely noticed a change in the culture here (and complained about it in "unpopular" opinions) Having a large influx of users is absolutely going to change the culture of this place, even if the advertisers and celebs never come.
IMO, the fact that those people aren't here is the best part of the fediverse.
I tend to have a really bad mindset where I avoid places with little to no activity because I worry about giving the owner false hope. If nobody else shows up, I think that my presence might hinder their progress by preventing them from making necessary changes.
I need to get over it cos it's obviously wrong but keeps on my mind
Maybe what people think of as popular in their physical world is different than the popular that they think about in their abstract thoughts: "I'm going to be popular" or "I'm going to write a book" type thoughts.
Both things are different so no reconciliation is possible.
Well that defeats the purpose doesn't it?
Exact same for linux
She's just not that into you man.
Most people just wanna doom-scroll, they have no interest in having conversations.
man if I start my day without a healthy level of existential dread and depression what's even the point?
Hahah. Your post hits home.
You know what? I think I’m okay with the fediverse simply never getting as big and popular as Reddit is/was. Over the years, as it got more popular, I definitely noticed that the average quality of interactions I had on Reddit slowly but steadily declined. Lemmy feels like old-school Reddit, which I am honestly pretty happy about.
That's what I keep saying. I keep getting told I'm wrong though, that Lemmy needs to be easier to join, and hit critical mass and become the reddit killer because that's the only way we can exist.
Like, no thank you. I'm happy with Lemmy NOW, I don't need it to keep growing!